Why Kneel for Communion

[SunnaB16]

My goodness, even Protestants (Anglicans and Lutherans) kneel for their communion.

Isn`t it perverse (?) that they kneel in reverence (Hats off to them!) for what they mistakenly believe to be our Lord; and most of us have little or no inclination to do that for the One Who the Church has infallibly told us is the God Man!

We cant judge individuals; but the sad truth is that there has been a GENERAL loss of belief in the Real Presence. Thats been brought up on these forums Heaven knows how many times. Too often, the external betrays the internal.

I love when someone tells me, “I stand for communion and take it in the hand because I am an adult Catholic.” What does that even mean?

Often pride.
They ignore what our Lord said: “Unless you become like little children…”.
Personally, im rapt in the truth that were children: with a Father…and a mother who love and watch over us more than any natural parents could.
One writer said that when we receive COTT (and kneeling), we`re like little birds with our mouths open, waiting to be fed by our parents.

What happened at The Last Supper is irrelevant: the Apostles were Bishops.
They may even have received on the tongue, as the host often gave a morsel to guests…

“Obey your Bishop” ?
Why don`t the Bishops respect the wishes of the Bishop of Rome?
Introducing CITH and standing, and enforcing both by intimidation in a hell of a lot of cases, was one of the cruelest acts ever inflicted on the faithful.
Why was it done?

 

[hartleymartin]

I sometimes go to a Latin Mass (1962 Missal) where the practice is still to recivie communion whilst kneeling. When I go to a modern mass, I prefer to receive on the tongue rather than in my hands. I think that the details are not important, so long as you adhere to the instructions in the GIRM.

 

[mommamaree]

I think you are dead on Peter5. I totally agree with you.

Who am I to meet the Creator of the Universe as a peer, standing before Him “face to face”? No - I am His humble servant, in awe of His greatness, and so I come before Him on my knees, and as a little child I open my mouth to receive Him.

Sadly so many don’t get this. It is pride that keeps people on their feet, and humility that brings them to their knees.

~Liza

No, it is obedience to our bishops and priests that leads us to stand. It would pride in our own supposed holiness that would lead us to be disobedient in kneeling. We are instructed to stand and not to kneel. We may receive on the tongue or in the hand.
Frankly, I am just so thankful to be able to receive communion. I am so astonished at the generosity of our Lord, to give Himself to us Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity every single week. I receive just as gratefully whether it is from a priest, deacon or EMHC (most often the latter, due to the huge size of our parish). I receive on the tongue, standing, after bowing, and I say ‘Amen’, as I was instructed. I don’t really appreciate the assertions made here that people like me who stand are arrogant. Are you saying you are holier than others, even in spite of your disobedience?

 

[jenkiedad]

well, the new Churches being built dont even have kneelers of any kind anymore. so, if you want to kneel, you would have to go to a Tradiitional Mass. as the new churches continue to be built, the people no longer even know that once we were supposed to kneel. this is the plan. to do away wiht the kneelers eventually.

My own Church was originally built without kneelers (circa 1990) because the “liturgical consultants” were predicting that the USCCB were heading in that direction (also, there was a cost savings). Once the new GIRM was published in 2002, kneelers were then added.

If a new Church is now built without kneelers, I am presuming that it is intended for the congregation to kneel on the hard floor. The GIRM is the GIRM.

 

[SunnaB16]

No, it is obedience to our bishops and priests that leads us to stand. *** It would pride in our own supposed holiness that would lead us to be ******disobedient in kneeling… ***
…even in spite of your disobedience?

Rome has had some things to say about that.
In my own case, i`m fortunate to be able to get to a TLM the vast majority of the time.
At a now very rare Novus Ordo Mass, i stand, to avoid any accusation of “Holier than thou”.
But Rome says we CAN kneel…

Pride can work in both directions: some people would be too proud to kneel.

Again,though: Why won`t the Bishops respect the wishes of the BIshop of Rome?

Disobedience can also work in both directions.

 

[mommamaree]

Rome has had some things to say about that.
In my own case, i`m fortunate to be able to get to a TLM the vast majority of the time.
At a now very rare Novus Ordo Mass, i stand, to avoid any accusation of “Holier than thou”.
But Rome says we CAN kneel…

Pride can work in both directions: some people would be too proud to kneel.

Again,though: Why won`t the Bishops respect the wishes of the BIshop of Rome?

Good question. I am not knowledgeable enough to answer such a question. But what I do know is that in asking me to stand, the bishops and the priests are NOT asking me to sin, so I should respect their request and be obedient. We are to submit to one another out of reverance, as we would to Christ. Unless and until we are asked to do something that our fully-formed conscience would lead us to conclude is sinful, we should submit to the authority of our bishop and priests. Simply being in error is not the same thing as being in sin. Bishops who disagree, or for very valid reasons must follow a different course of action from other bishops in other dioceses, should not be assumed to be in open rebellion with Rome. If we are instructed to kneel to receive, or if we are informed that we are allowed to kneel, then I will probably do so, as long as I would not run the risk of tripping people. But until that day, I will remain obedient to the current instructions for receiving communion in the OF masses that take place in churches that have no communion rail. The reality is that our parish has grown so large that we cannot fit in our church any longer. We have three standing-room-only masses in our parish hall (read: school gymnasium) and consequently have no pews or kneelers. Padded folding chairs and a hardwood basketball floor covered with a tarp is what we’ve got. There is almost no one kneeling due to lack of space. (Sometimes I wonder if we are accidentally violating fire codes when we have especially full masses, where rows of standing people are along the back.) But rather than grumble about lack of reverence or evidence of pride, I am worshipping the Lord with a grateful heart for what He is doing in our small community. How can we complain about postures when the Lord’s church is bursting at the seams? I have similar feelings whenever I see or hear complaints about EMHCs.

 

[At_Trent]

Rome has had some things to say about that.
In my own case, i`m fortunate to be able to get to a TLM the vast majority of the time.
At a now very rare Novus Ordo Mass, i stand, to avoid any accusation of “Holier than thou”.
But Rome says we CAN kneel…

Pride can work in both directions: some people would be too proud to kneel.

Again,though: Why won`t the Bishops respect the wishes of the BIshop of Rome?

Disobedience can also work in both directions.

They don’t follow his lead because he hasn’t ordered them to do so. You bring up a good point though. Everyone screams “unity”, but only in the EF will you find it in it’s truest sense.

At the weekday OF Mass I attend, there is no unity really. Some stand after Communion, some Kneel, some sit. Some receive COTT, some CITH, some genuflect at the front pew, some bow, some simply approach and say Amen. A few have started receiving on one knee after a regular attendee started doing it. Evidently, and thankfully, the priests there don’t mind, because this has been going on for a couple of months now.

We have a rail there, and kneeler pads. Since the priest gives Communion at the end of the rail, I’m going to ask the pastor if it’s ok to kneel at the rail. He would only have to turn a bit to give Communion at the rail. I won’t press him on it if he says no, but he may very well say yes since some are kneeling on one knee anyway.

To all: if you haven’t watched this interview, please do at your convenience
tl.gloria.tv/?media=2710

 

[Snerticus]

I’m not offering an opinion here, just providing you with the USCCB website’s diagram at usccb.org/liturgy/innews/092002.shtml:

The following chart is provided to assist in catechesis for the proper common posture at Mass. These provisions will, likewise, be incorporated into popular participation aids in the near future.

From the beginning of Mass until the First Reading - STAND
From the first Reading until the Gospel Acclamation - SIT
From the Gospel Acclamation until the end of the Gospel - STANDDuring the Homily - SIT
From the Profession of Faith until the end of the General Intercessions - STAND
From the Preparation of the Gifts to the completion of Pray brethren - SIT
From the beginning of the peoples’ response May the Lord… to the beginning of the Holy, Holy - STAND
From the completion of the Holy, Holy until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer - KNEEL
From the beginning of the Our Father until the completion of the Lamb of God - STAND
From the completion of the Lamb of God (at the Behold the Lamb of God…) until the Distribution of Holy Communion - KNEEL
When Receiving Holy Communion - STAND (see #3)
During the sacred silence after the Distribution of Holy Communion - SIT OR KNEEL

From the beginning of the Prayer after Communion until the end of Mass. STAND

1. 
   *]The people may stand when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.
   *]The diocesan bishop may determine that the people should stand after the Agnus Dei (at the Behold the Lamb of God…).
   *]**The norm for the reception of communion is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed by providing the communicant with a catechesis on the reason for the norm. **When receiving communion standing, the communicant is to bow his or her head before receiving the Body of the Lord. When receiving under both kinds, the communicant also bows his or her head before receiving the Precious Blood. Communion may be received on the tongue or in the hand at the discretion of the communicant.

1. 
   More on #3 at usccb.org/liturgy/innews/072002.shtml (shortened due to CAF word restrictions):
   

   Posture…
   
   Kneeling is not a licit posture for receiving Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States of America unless the bishop of a particular diocese has derogated from this norm in an individual and extraordinary circumstance.
   
   …Under no circumstances may a person be denied Holy Communion merely because he or she has refused to stand to receive Holy Communion. Rather, in such instances, the priest is obliged to provide additional catechesis so that the communicant might better understand the reason for the Bishops’ decision to choose standing as the normative posture for receiving Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States of America…
   
   Uniformity in Posture
   The General Instruction of the Roman Missal emphasizes that in matters of gesture and posture “greater attention needs to be paid to what is laid down by liturgical law and by the traditional practice of the Roman Rite, for the sake of the common spiritual good of the people of God rather than to personal inclination arbitrary choice” (Girm, no.42)/ Throughout their consideration of GIRM numbers 43 and 160, the Bishops repeatedly recalled the need for uniformity in all prescribed postures and gestures.
   
   Such uniformity serves as a “sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the sacred Liturgy” and it “both expresses and fosters the spiritual attitude of those assisting” (GIRM, no. 42). Likewise, a lack of uniformity can serve as a sign of disunity or even a sense of individualism. A particular example of this disunity has been cited by many of the Bishops in regard to a diversity of postures during the Eucharistic Prayer, “the center and summit of the entire celebration” (GIRM, no. 78). Thus, the variation from kneeling as the uniform posture during the Eucharistic Prayer is permitted only “on occasion” and when the circumstances found by GIRM (no. 43) are clearly present.
   
   In describing the indispensable role of the gathered faithful at Mass, the General Instruction of the Roman Missal presents them as “a holy people, a chosen people, a royal priesthood” who “give thanks to God and offer the Victim not only through the hands of the priest but also together with him and learn to offer themselves” (GIRM, no. 95). Two responsibilities grow from this noble identity: “fostering of a deep sense of reverence for God as well as developing charity towards their brothers and sisters who share with them in the celebration” (GIRM, no. 95). Such a sense of reverence for God and charity for the other members of the liturgical assembly is concretely manifested by a unity in word, song, posture and gesture. Thus, this section concludes that the faithful are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have the one Father in heaven and therefore are all brothers and sisters to each other" (GIRM, no. 95).

 

[Layman]

This carol needs new lyrics, then, for the USA?

O Holy Night! The stars are brightly shining,
It is the night of the dear Saviour’s birth.
Long lay the world in sin and error pining.
Till He appeared and the Spirit felt its worth.
A thrill of hope the weary world rejoices,
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn.
Stand, on your feet! Oh, hear the angel voices!
O night divine, the night when Christ was born;
O night, O Holy Night , O night divine!
O night, O Holy Night , O night divine!

Stand tall, America!

Amazing they can now mandate that you stand. Love to know the reasoning behind that one.

 

[Snerticus]

This carol needs new lyrics, then, for the USA?

O Holy Night! The stars are brightly shining,
It is the night of the dear Saviour’s birth.
Long lay the world in sin and error pining.
Till He appeared and the Spirit felt its worth.
A thrill of hope the weary world rejoices,
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn.
Stand, on your feet! Oh, hear the angel voices!
O night divine, the night when Christ was born;
O night, O Holy Night , O night divine!
O night, O Holy Night , O night divine!

Stand tall, America!

Amazing they can now mandate that you stand. Love to know the reasoning behind that one.

I personally think kneeling before our God and King is the most humble position anyone can make.

However, I cannot go against authority.

Many of the great Saints knew their superiors to be wrong yet obeyed them because God had asked them to. St. Faustina was one. Believe me when I tell you that I’ve done things that I was told during Mass not because I wanted to but because I thought it was mandated… even though I was crying inside (sometimes visibly) because I thought it was irreverent and abhorrent to God. One good thing to note: Jesus knows our hearts and whether we be wrong or the ones who order us to do it, he knows we love Him and are doing it in good faith.

 

[Momofmyangels]

This carol needs new lyrics, then, for the USA?

O Holy Night! The stars are brightly shining,
It is the night of the dear Saviour’s birth.
Long lay the world in sin and error pining.
Till He appeared and the Spirit felt its worth.
A thrill of hope the weary world rejoices,
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn.
Stand, on your feet! Oh, hear the angel voices!
O night divine, the night when Christ was born;
O night, O Holy Night , O night divine!
O night, O Holy Night , O night divine!

Stand tall, America!

Amazing they can now mandate that you stand. Love to know the reasoning behind that one.

OH, Please don’t give them any ideas!

 

[mommamaree]

This carol needs new lyrics, then, for the USA?

O Holy Night! The stars are brightly shining,
It is the night of the dear Saviour’s birth.
Long lay the world in sin and error pining.
Till He appeared and the Spirit felt its worth.
A thrill of hope the weary world rejoices,
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn.
Stand, on your feet! Oh, hear the angel voices!
O night divine, the night when Christ was born;
O night, O Holy Night , O night divine!
O night, O Holy Night , O night divine!

Stand tall, America!

Amazing they can now mandate that you stand. Love to know the reasoning behind that one.

Now that one made me laugh. I agree that it would seem appropriate to kneel, but there are many situations where that quickly becomes dangerous. It is the practice of the Catholic Church to celebrate Mass in a church (or chapel or grotto) and not in an open field somewhere, like many Neo-Pagan festivities might be. Because of this, our view of the heavens is restricted, as is a more practical consideration - floor space! I truly think that the TLM I have witnessed on TV is beautiful, and the reverance of its participants is inspiring and humbling. However, many of participate in Masses in church (or in gymnasiums) that do not offer the room to kneel without tripping up everyone else. Our parish has more than 1500 families (that families, not people). Our church holds only 300 people. So guess where we have Mass? In our parish gym, and still it is standing room only. On top of that, we have only one priest in our parish, just ONE! Can you believe it? He has about 12 EMHCs at every single Sunday mass and communion is still a long (but beautiful and reverent) part of the mass. I watch people as they receive communion, because it helps me to sense our unity in Christ, and they may all have different ways of performing the mandated postures, but it is beautiful precisely because they are all so unique and different, and yet we are all in communion through Christ. Still, there is simply not enough room for kneeling. I can see why our bishop and parish priest tell parishioners NOT to kneel. It would really cause a dangerous situation to develop. Perhaps that is why standing is the norm in the US. A lot of dioceses (including my own) are still considered mission territory and receive actual support from Rome, and the parishes are growing so rapidly that churches are quickly outgrown. Maybe it is their wisdom and greater perspective that leads them to mandate standing for safety’s sake, even though kneeling would be an outward display that is more reverent.

 

[wisdomseeker]

They don’t follow his lead because he hasn’t ordered them to do so. You bring up a good point though. Everyone screams “unity”, but only in the EF will you find it in it’s truest sense.

At the weekday OF Mass I attend, there is no unity really. Some stand after Communion, some Kneel, some sit. Some receive COTT, some CITH, some genuflect at the front pew, some bow, some simply approach and say Amen. A few have started receiving on one knee after a regular attendee started doing it. Evidently, and thankfully, the priests there don’t mind, because this has been going on for a couple of months now.

We have a rail there, and kneeler pads. Since the priest gives Communion at the end of the rail, I’m going to ask the pastor if it’s ok to kneel at the rail. He would only have to turn a bit to give Communion at the rail. I won’t press him on it if he says no, but he may very well say yes since some are kneeling on one knee anyway.

To all: if you haven’t watched this interview, please do at your convenience
tl.gloria.tv/?media=2710

this is a saintly bishop. i think he is pretty much alone.

 

[ConstantineTG]

As a Roman Catholic, I was never aware of these rites up to recently. Using them to excuse the introduction of CITH to our rite, standing, is disinengenuous. It’s like ‘rubric-shopping’ and in my opinion fits in well with cafeteria Catholicism.

Same here. I’m not making them as an excuse but I’m spreading the word that we should be careful of how we address such issues because the practice does exist in the Catholic Church and it has been there for hundreds of years. So people should think twice about saying something too negative about said practice because its a hit against our Church one way or another. I mean, would you appreciate it if an Eastern Catholic would saying something negative about receiving the Precious Body only?

Roman Catholics changing over to CITH, standing, from COTT, kneeling, makes no sense in the context of Western culture. Especially given Who you are in the Presence of.

But Roman Catholicism isn’t purely Western Culture only anymore. Yes, its roots are. But in fact every country in the world has Roman Catholicism in them. So the culture is actually Catholic in the truest sense of the word, and not just Roman.

I know this is a poor comparison, but its like McDonalds. Sure, McDonalds is an American company, but everywhere in the world they would carry on extra items on their menu reflective of the culture and tastes of people of that country they are in. So is McDonalds American enough when you’re in Japan where they have sushi, or in India where they serve lamb burgers because most people don’t eat beef?

Standing is a more universal sign of respect than kneeling. Kneeling is more of penitential, which is not the purpose of the Sacrament of Communion.

Also: I read a report of an interview, recently, with some UK ‘Young People’; the alien specie the priests and religious were so keen to chase after in to 70’s and 80’s in my own Youth, with folk masses and the like.

From memory, one said he liked Catholicism because you can choose what you believe(!).

Do we shape the Church according to the opinon of some?

 

[Layman]

I was going to say that if CITH, standing, happened by itself, as part of the natural development of the TLM, you could make a case for it simply being a matter of discipline.

But I couldn’t. How could it occur, given the way that Mass is said and the pentitential nature of the text? Pride, also called egotism, chief of all the deadly sins, has no place in it. The priest is anonymous before and after the sermon and the laity largely mute and on their knees. Then, move to stand to receive Communion with your hand out? From a laywoman? We’re down the rabbit hole, now.

Given the range and depth of changes to our religion in the last century, what we have experienced is an iconoclasm. Not a bit of tweaking, not the work of saintly evangelists, but an attempt to change the entire worship and character of Roman Catholicism. CITH is part of that.

If I wasn’t a Roman Catholic, I’d find it laughable, like the meltdown in Anglicanism. The contortions people get into trying to justify these changes e.g. the ‘pro multis’ controversy, wouldn’t convince an illiterate drayman.

I doubt 20% of all Catholics know that we are, in effect, liturgical guinea pigs. What a pity. I’m reminded of the line from the poem by W.B. Yeats " … the beating down of the wise and the great Art beaten down …".

**What should be happening, at your local Church, is beautifully vested men, in an impressive temple, groaning with shining and symbolic images, propitiating a wrathful and awesome God and thanking His Beloved Son, to the sound of beautiful music, poetic, mysterious text and with the smell of precious incence. With intervals of deep silence.

And it’s not hard to do. At all. Especially if we had the old support network. Glory, on a weekly basis, if the locals are up for it.

That is what has been taken from us. We want it back. **

 

[ConstantineTG]

I was going to say that if CITH, standing, happened by itself, as part of the natural development of the TLM, you could make a case for it simply being a matter of discipline.

But I couldn’t. How could it occur, given the way that Mass is said and the pentitential nature of the text? Pride, also called egotism, chief of all the deadly sins, has no place in it. The priest is anonymous before and after the sermon and the laity largely mute and on their knees. Then, move to stand to receive Communion with your hand out? From a laywoman? We’re down the rabbit hole, now.

Given the range and depth of changes to our religion in the last century, what we have experienced is an iconoclasm. Not a bit of tweaking, not the work of saintly evangelists, but an attempt to change the entire worship and character of Roman Catholicism. CITH is part of that.

If I wasn’t a Roman Catholic, I’d find it laughable, like the meltdown in Anglicanism. The contortions people get into trying to justify these changes e.g. the ‘pro multis’ controversy, wouldn’t convince an illiterate drayman.

I doubt 20% of all Catholics know that we are, in effect, liturgical guinea pigs. What a pity. I’m reminded of the line from the poem by W.B. Yeats " … the beating down of the wise and the great Art beaten down …".

**What should be happening, at your local Church, is beautifully vested men, in an impressive temple, groaning with shining and symbolic images, propitiating a wrathful and awesome God and thanking His Beloved Son, to the sound of beautiful music, poetic, mysterious text and with the smell of precious incence. With intervals of deep silence.

And it’s not hard to do. At all. Especially if we had the old support network. Glory, on a weekly basis, if the locals are up for it.

That is what has been taken from us. We want it back. **

Okay, I think we’ve gone a little bit beyond the boundaries of the topic. I do agree with some of what you said about Mass. But what I have said are in the boundaries of receiving Holy Communion and why I think standing and CITH are not a bad thing. I don’t want to take the thread off-topic by trying to discuss the entire Mass.

How can you distinguish between what happened and by what you describe as a natural development? How do you compare this with previous developments of the Tridentine Mass, or even how the Tridentine Mass came to be?

 

[At_Trent]

this is a saintly bishop. i think he is pretty much alone.

I like the way he explains the way CITH was received in the early Church. Kind of kills the simplistic " The Church used to allow CITH, so today it shouldn’t be a big deal" argument. The current method of CITH is nothing like it was back then.

 

[lizaanne]

I like the way he explains the way CITH was received in the early Church. Kind of kills the simplistic " The Church used to allow CITH, so today it shouldn’t be a big deal" argument. The current method of CITH is nothing like it was back then.

I know this Bishop. He visited the studios of RealCatholicTV, you can see a video from him on the site under the Shepherd’s Voice show. I had the great grace of being his driver for the day when he came to visit us. Never in my life have I ever been in the presence of someone who just exuded holiness as he does. I got to visit with him again when he was in town for Call to Holiness a couple years ago. What a wonderful man, and truly a good Bishop.

If all Bishops were like this I can guarantee you there would be no standing for Holy Communion.

Read his book - Dominus est - It Is the Lord: Reflections of a Bishop of Central Asia on Holy Communion. It should be required reading for every single Catholic.

Go here to purchase the book: opusangelorum.org/Books/Books.html

Don’t go to Amazon, it’s $60 or some crazy thing.

~Liza

 

[ProVobis]

why I think standing and CITH are not a bad thing.

Not a bad thing at all if it were just a piece of ordinary bread you were receiving in a food line.

 

[ProVobis]

I like the way he explains the way CITH was received in the early Church. Kind of kills the simplistic " The Church used to allow CITH, so today it shouldn’t be a big deal" argument. The current method of CITH is nothing like it was back then.

For one thing, the design of communion was altogether different in the early church.

disciplesnow.com/articles/43