Why Marijuana in itself is NOT sinful

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stringbeanduck said:
For some people alcohol can put distance between others and God, others it could be tobacco, racing, contests, ect… Still for others some of these things could put one closer to God. I know my hobby with tobacco allowed me to understand research further into His creation. Now let me just say that LSD is very dangerous given that it is inorganic properties simply fry the brain into believing it is in another world. It was simply an invalid medical discovery if you ask me. Once you take it the chemistry of the brain changes and can lead to unhappy flashbacks or even freak you out forever.

The difference between Catholicism and other religions is how we exercise faith. We don’t need drugs to interact with what we consider the Divine. Perhaps the folks who practice these other religions “need” such mind altering substances to visualize and interact with they call god because faith alone in these gods isn’t enough. Maybe they feel this is how they need to communicate with what they consider god or gods. If one’s system of religion feels the “need” for the use of something mind altering in order to see or understand their god, it doesn’t say much for the structure of their religion.
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Aside from your misunderstanding of LSD, you make some fair points. However, what’s the difference between drug use and, say, communion? They both put the believer in a position closer to God (from the point of view of the believer anyway). The only difference is that drug use is physical, while communion (or prayer, or a number of different things) is something created by the mind (or “soul”?).

As a side note, LSD is an organic molecule, albeit a semisynthetic one. As a chemist I felt the need to bring this up, but you’re certainly free to hold your opinions on the morality and medical validity of it 🙂
 
pzona said:
Aside from your misunderstanding of LSD, you make some fair points. However, what’s the difference between drug use and, say, communion? They both put the believer in a position closer to God (from the point of view of the believer anyway). The only difference is that drug use is physical, while communion (or prayer, or a number of different things) is something created by the mind (or “soul”?).

As a side note, LSD is an organic molecule, albeit a semisynthetic one. As a chemist I felt the need to bring this up, but you’re certainly free to hold your opinions on the morality and medical validity of it 🙂
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Eh, here’s where we have to part ways. If you’re an Indian shaman who knows no other way of communion with God it may not be sinful, but for the rest of us who know better it is. We’re not meant to have such intense experiences. I’ve experimented with the ol’ LSD myself and I really do wonder how much spiritual benefit there is to it, even for the non-Christian. It makes you feel enlightened, it makes you feel like you’ve unlocked some sort of universal secret, but whether you actually have? Totally different matter. I’ve talked to a lot of psychonauts before and I generally think the whole thing is a big delusion.

I’m not trying to be mean here but could you just stop posting this sort of stuff? There are lots of forums where you can talk about using drugs to be closer to God (which, as I’ve already said, is probably a load of bull, and certainly is to us Catholics); posting here will only tempt the faithful, and if we’re right and you’re wrong you’re only committing more sins. There’s no reason for it, y’know?
 
Actually I think this is exactly the blog to post those kind of things. This is a thread about the question of weather cannabis is a sin or not. Obviously some have stated that it can be used as a sacrament (for some), I see this as completely relevant to the conversation. If you think you might be tempted too much,with all due respect, maybe you should find a different thread.
 
I would agree, wholeheartedly, that Marijuana, in itself, is in no way sinful.

Good post and great debate.
 
There are very few things that are intrinsically sinful. To determine the morality of an action you must look at the act itself, the ends (or intent), and the circumstances. In the case of smoking marijuana (and I am going to assume not to excess):

Act Itself: Morally neutral.
Intent: To relax–morally neutral
Circumstances: in violation of legitimate authority (civil government)–sinful

Since disobedience of legitimate authority is a violation of the 4th commandment, smoking marijuana must be considered a sinful act. Now if the intent was to treat a medical condition and medical marijuana is legal in your jurisdiction, it would not be a sinful act. This simple process can be applied to any action to determine the sinfulness of any action.
 
CWBetts said:
There are very few things that are intrinsically sinful. To determine the morality of an action you must look at the act itself, the ends (or intent), and the circumstances. In the case of smoking marijuana (and I am going to assume not to excess):

Act Itself: Morally neutral.
Intent: To relax–morally neutral
Circumstances: in violation of legitimate authority (civil government)–sinful

Since disobedience of legitimate authority is a violation of the 4th commandment, smoking marijuana must be considered a sinful act. Now if the intent was to treat a medical condition and medical marijuana is legal in your jurisdiction, it would not be a sinful act. This simple process can be applied to any action to determine the sinfulness of any action.
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Wow, I actually agree with you here. Infact that was pretty much my arguement all along.
 
I have been thouroughly enjoying this thread, and found that throughout the debate one of the points that really sticks out to me is the issue of the 4th commandment.
Marijuana and it’s condition of illegality, in most jurisdictions, is cause, for some, to deem it sinful. This is a contentious notion, that we must be obedient to our governement in all their laws not directly and obviously pertaining to church matters.
This is an issue that needs to be clarified and in itself properly debated.
Simply resigning our freedoms and reason to a worldly authority cannot be what Paul intended when he made his point in Romans 13:1-2…
 
CWBetts said:
There are very few things that are intrinsically sinful. To determine the morality of an action you must look at the act itself, the ends (or intent), and the circumstances. In the case of smoking marijuana (and I am going to assume not to excess):

Act Itself: Morally neutral.
Intent: To relax–morally neutral
Circumstances: in violation of legitimate authority (civil government)–sinful

Since disobedience of legitimate authority is a violation of the 4th commandment, smoking marijuana must be considered a sinful act. Now if the intent was to treat a medical condition and medical marijuana is legal in your jurisdiction, it would not be a sinful act. This simple process can be applied to any action to determine the sinfulness of any action.
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Once again we are back to the issue of legality. Here is where I have to disagree. The law is relative, it all depends on where you live. I hardly think that god sees it as a sin if someone uses cannabis in a nation that deems it illegal, as opposed to one where it is legal. I think god sees a bigger picture than that, don’t you. Even more, if you look at the reasons that cannabis was made illegal in the first place, any logical person can see that this law is seriously flawed.
*quote Harry J. Anslinger: “Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”, “There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes,
entertainers and any others.”
Now to update the milk situation, it has now become illegal to possess, and consume raw milk. The effect is ruining small family farms, and encroaching on our personal rights. All this for governmental control.
The bottom line, is that the government doesn’t own my body, god does. I drink raw milk, I smoke cannabis, I pray the rosary, and go to church. I am a catholic regardless.:cool:
 
mojoe said:
Now to update the milk situation, it has now become illegal to possess, and consume raw milk. The effect is ruining small family farms, and encroaching on the personal rights. All this for governmental control.
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It is not illegal to posses or consume raw milk, you just can’t buy it from anyone else. One legal way to get around that law, is to buy a “part” of a cow, and get part of the produce or if the farmer gives it to you for free. Why is it ruining family farms?
 
bigfootbob said:
It is not illegal to posses or consume raw milk, you just can’t buy it from anyone else. One legal way to get around that law, is to buy a “part” of a cow, and get part of the produce or if the farmer gives it to you for free. Why is it ruining family farms?
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It is now illegal in WI. It is also as of now illegal to make your own yogurt or kefir as well. I spoke with a farmer this afternoon and now have some of said illegal milk in my refrigerator as I type this. The law is being fought legitimately, and illegally. They are Systematically raiding small dairy farms caught resisting such a unconstitutional, and ludacris law, shutting them down.
 
mojoe said:
It is now illegal in WI. It is also as of now illegal to make your own yogurt or kefir as well. I spoke with a farmer this afternoon and now have some of said illegal milk in my refrigerator as I type this. The law is being fought legitimately, and illegally. They are Systematically raiding small dairy farms caught resisting such a unconstitutional, and ludacris law, shutting them down.
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For what? I’m in WI and I’ve had my share of raw milk (Mmmm. good) Where are you getting this information? Raiding dairy farms when there’s pot smokers running around???
 
bigfootbob said:
For what? I’m in WI and I’ve had my share of raw milk (Mmmm. good) Where are you getting this information? Raiding dairy farms when there’s pot smokers running around???
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First I read about milk contamination at a farm in East Troy in my local newspaper, and the proposed law, I was at one of these farms today that is part of the group spearheading the resistance of these new laws through getting the word out, and hiring a lobbyist of their own. So… I got my information from the source more or less. I think you need to look for the info before before disputing it. They shouldn’t raid either of these type of farms, seeing as how they are both nonviolent offenses, and both concerning nonsensical law
 
It’s late here, but I have been thinking about this issue tonight and over the past couple of days, and I’d rather clear my mind of it now.
Upon finding this thread I had finished watching a film called “The Union” it was about the reality and complexity of the marijuana struggle, and this it made this thread really grip my attention.
Through reading this I have a much better understanding of the issue, but I think that a conclusion here, (for me at-least) is still not been reached… perhaps some may think otherwise.
Regardless of what we find helpful in this thread, I would strongly suggest to anyone facing the question of it’s moral nature, circumstance or instance, to consult a trusted and faithful clergyman.

That being said, my opinion is this: from what I’ve heard, it has been our Holy Fathers council to us and various leaders that marijuana not be legalized nor decriminalized, and I’ve have come to agree with that, but also hope that they will continue to bring clarity to the whole issue.
If we honestly look at what drugs, soft or hard, natural or chemical, are primarily bringing about in people world wide, in general, we cannot ignore the evil there. Attempting to legitimizing drug use through regulation (for taxable profits) would do harm to the common good, because at this point we are more prone to view recreation through narcotics as an acceptable norm than acknowledging it as a sinful vice or criminal offence.

To be more clear, I should say that I believe Marijuana laws are not in accordance with the Lords natural law, in so far as that our authorities here on Earth have deemed it impermissible for a man/woman to plant a seed and grow one of His creations… This must be corrected!
I think in the act of allowing something in society that will temp others into evil, that matters of legality become tricky, and this is exactly how I see the Holy Fathers views come into play.

I have been a user of narcotics in the past, marijuana in particular, and I know first hand that it is a powerful relaxant, one that is relatively less harmful but not harmless. It can be taken very easily to excess, and that is where I had, and so many people today have their trouble. Excess with this plant does not only come when someone uses it all the time, but simply when someone does not truly respect it’s potency or acknowledge the effect it can have on their heart, mind, and soul. In this regard, when we talk about our Father having given us all the plants of the Earth to use, we must remember that it is our Father also gives us the virtue of temperance.

God bless,
good night.

:yawn:
 
I used to smoke a lot of pot and I do believe that by the grace of God, I was able to give it up. I used to spend more time looking for drugs, than I would spend with my wife & son, so for me, I believe that pot became my god, (sad but true). I also used to drink quite a lot and the two combined can really mess a person up. as far as the point goes of smoking pot being a sin , do I think that anyone is going too hell for smoking a joint? absolutely not, but I do think that it can lead a person down a road too more serious legal problems and serious sins, if they are not careful, not to mention, not being able to pass a drug test and get a decent paying job. I still drink socially, but I have to watch myself, because one beer can easily lead to twelve or thirteen or twenty beers and endless shots for me, and thats not where I want to be in life anymore. I also noticed that when I drink, my cravings for pot come back and I have slipped up a couple of times here & there since I quit about three years ago. there is also two other points that I would like to throw in here as well. 1. I do think that Jesus was talking about drugs and alcohal when He said, “the person with the clear eye seeks the kingdom of God, if your eye is not clear, you cannot seek the kingdom of God.” although I do believe that this could also apply to other things as well. 2. I feel sorry for the kids growing up nowadays because of all the other very serious addicting drugs that are in circulation & so easily accessible too our youth today. drugs like crack, meth, heroine, and many others weren’t so easy to come by when I was younger, (I’m 44) and I thank God for that. I do believe that smoking pot can lead some, not all people into heavier drug use, and heavier drug use can lead to all kinds of messed up things.
 
I’m not sure if you’re still around Liquid1187 (original Poster for this thread) but I looked back on your argument here and noticed a couple of things that need to be examined.
liquid1187 said:
The main reason I smoke marijuana is to relax, think more deeply about different things and enjoy everything God has given me to the fullest extent. While other drugs would prohibit one from doing this, marijuana promotes creativity and enhances everything I do in life.
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    • Have you ever consider that you may have become deceived here, because it sounds as though you believe that without marijuana your experience in life would be somehow emptier. How can you enjoy your sobriety to the fullest extent when your High?
liquid1187 said:
It has made me more sympathetic to others feelings and allowed me to express myself towards them in a more loving way… I cannot say I have ever made a decision differently while high that I would not have made sober.
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Here, you say it has helped you change your attitude, but then profess it’s never caused you to act different to when you are sober.

Though I agree with you in part, marijuana has both mental and physical therapeutic qualities for us, it doesn’t change the fact that generally these are not the qualities people seek out when they use the stuff.

Here is another point to throw into the debate: In the Catholic Faith we believe that our Father wants us to use our physical senses as a powerful enhancement of worship. Prayer before the depiction of our Holy Mother has the ability to deepen our reflection upon her, and the use of incense in a Mass, symbolically cleanses and represents to us our prayers rising up to him. They help to draw us deeper into worship.

When ever I notice something as beautiful, and see in it our Lords love, it can draw me, in spirit, closer to him. Through work, family, recreation, and any other activity our Father gives me, it can cause me to experience love, joy, or even pain, but throughout he offers me the path of grace to praise him in thankfulness.

Then there are times when I’ve searched for ways to experience, on my own, joys without them being God given, ie. indulgence in alcohol and other narcotics, sexuality, food or even just laziness and though It’s not always easy to say for sure when it becomes sinful as a practicing Catholic Christian it is up to me to examine my intent and look for the path of grace.

I guess my argument is that, Yes, God wants to help me to experience him through my senses, as long as my heart remains intent upon him and not myself.

So I think that it’s not the use of Marijuana that’s sinful, but rather our intent.

God Bless you.
 
Dear GrnTree,

St. Thomas Aquinas (Summa) says that deliberate drunkenness is a mortal sin, or maybe more properly it could be said to be a “grave matter.”

See…
newadvent.org/summa/3150.htm

I believe marijuana causes effects that are similar to drunknness as Aquinas notes because drunkenness affects our reasoning.

I think I will make a new thread just on this topic.
 
Hey all,
I believe that a few things have been let out on this subject. Before I continue I will state that I suffer from extreme anxiety disorder and I smoke cannabis daily once in the morning and once at night legally. Now there are all kinds of pharmaceuticals out there like benzodopamines, and ssri (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors) or “anti-depressants” these are all know to be completely dangerous for human consumption and they alter the mind, that is the whole reason for their existence in the first place, as Catholics do we have the right to take these I mean if i take a zoloft or paxil before mass the existential questions can arise that am experience the joy of Christ and communion because of me or the paxil. Now marijuana(the name it self was picked up for use in federal court cases because of it connotations of Mexican origin over the originally widely used cannabis indica. Now if you research this word and the entire history of it modern etymologists and Jewish scholars have traced it to the Hebrew Kaneh-Bosm roughly translated as fragrant cane. Now this word was translated into the western bibles as callamus which is now known to be completely inaccurate. It is in the book as a recipe. The ancient recipe for this anointing oil, recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus (30: 22-23) included over nine pounds of flowering cannabis tops, Hebrew “kaneh-bosm” B, extracted into a hind (about 6.5 litres) of olive oil, along with a variety of other herbs and spices. The ancient chosen ones were literally drenched in this potent cannabis holy oil.
B The “m” is a pronounced plural, and the singular kaneh-bos sounds remarkably similar to the modern cannabis. Although often mistranslated as “calamus”, the word has been translated as “fragrant-cane” in most modern bibles, and specifically designates the fragrant flowering tops of cannabis.

From the time of Moses until that of the later prophet Samuel, the holy anointing oil was used by the shamanic Levite priesthood to receive the “revelations of the Lord”. At the dawn of the age of Kings, Samuel extended the use of the anointing oil to the Hebraic monarchs by anointing Saul (and later David) as “Messiah-king”. These kings lead their people with the benefit of insights achieved through using the holy anointing oil to become “possessed with the spirit of the Lord.”

"Anointing was common among kings of Israel. It was the sign and symbol of royalty. The word ‘Messiah’ signifies the ‘Anointed One’, and none of the kings of Israel were styled the Messiah unless anointed."1 The title was clearly only given to those “having the crown of God’s unction upon them” (Leviticus 21:12).

In fact if were going with this whole mind effect argument against it then we have to forbid all things with mind altering effects i.e. Television which is proven to have a dulling effect on the mind (the mind is using less brain activity while watching t.v. then when sleeping, alcohol Christ drank of this fermented fruit the bible advises to abstain from becoming drunk and slothful and inflamed, sleep itself, sleep deprivation, therapeutic pharmaceuticals, and fast food and fat and even lack of exercise can have harmful effects on the mind whereas cannabis has no long term negative effects and actually has many health benefits when consumed.

The Church is my life and I will follow it as it is handed down from Christ himself but it evolves in face and never in essence, there for if it be brought more prominently to the attention of faithful Catholics and fathers it can be discussed at the higher level. The church has never really been around the heart of this subject and I believe that it will become a different story in the future when this beneficial plant is shown outside the light of the modern interpretation of it which is very new. The Church knows what is right and I pray that my story will get out there. I am not a stoner. I drink a wine and I am not an alcoholic, and I drink beer once a blue moon I’m not an alcoholic my father was and it destroyed my family and his violent actions and death show that alcohol and anything can be abused. I wish not to argue just talk to fellow Catholics

All things in moderation except love for God and ones Brothers and Sisters is a pretty good philosophy.
 
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