What gave you the impression they submitted in the 1500s? The Union of Brest?
They came into union in the 12th C.
That conflicts with everything I’ve ever learned about the Maronites, which is that they were always in union with - but not always in contact with - Rome.
Yes they are Catholics since the 16th century. Before there was like a friendship between them and Roma through the crusades. But they became officially Catholics only at the 16th century. What I’m searching for, is the reason for their acceptation to submit to the Roman Pope. I read books saying Roma pressured the Maronites into accepting the Pope or they will suffer from the Catholic embargo they will apply to our community (Maronites were living in the mountains and were very isolated). If it is true it would mean that the behavior of Roma is very roguish, and the Maronite did not accepted the Pope by faith! Just by need!
Yes I think it is like a mix between Catholic rites and our original liturgy in Aramaic.
Yes Maronites were rather in CONTACT than in union with Roma at the 12th century through the crusades. And I will appreciate to know the true reasons of the Roman interest to the Maronites at this period.
It is very possible!! And I’m trying to know if it is true or not!! Because same things happened to the Assyrians community at the 16th century, and I admit that this sudden and late interest of Roma to our Churches is a little bit ambiguous. The Coptic Church, I think, refused what Maronites and Assyrians accepted, is it true brother I want to know your point of view on that ? And I’m sorry I wanted to talk with you on the other post but weirdly your reply and mine disappeared.
At the time of Louis IX (St-Louis), I really don’t think that there was any nefarious intent in Rome’s interest in the Maronites. After all, it’s quite clear that they essentially left us alone for another 300 or so years. What happened starting in the 15th Century, though, is something else.
This started in the 15thC and as I see it, it was a combination of factors, the first being the oppression by the Ottoman Empire. A close second is what dzheremi suggests. Add those two together and see what you get.
Short answer: NO! I do, however, have to add that it wasn’t really due to any action on the part of our monks: remember that Dandini and his crew were sent by Rome. And thereafter, Rome opened the so-called Maronite college in Rome. It was the alumni of that college who poisoned things. One result was the synod of 1598. Another was the infamous “Black Council” of 1732. And keep in mind that the latinized books were never fully accepted, despite the Black Council, until the “Arab Awakening” in 19th Century and the subsequent beginning of the loss of our true Syriac identity. With a few notable exceptions including Moran Mor Elias Hoayek and Moran Mor Antonios Arida, it’s only gotten worse since then. We are now, sadly, in the blackest period of our history.
Yes, there are a very small number of Coptic Catholics making up their own Eastern (or “Oriental” if you prefer that) Catholic Church, numbering about 165,000 people – mostly in Egypt, as you might guess. Their history begins in the 18th century with the Coptic Orthodox bishop of Jerusalem, Anba Athanasius, who for some reason joined the Catholic Church in 1741, and was appointed by Pope Benedict XIV to lead the approximately 2,000 Coptic Catholics in Egypt (the result of earlier missionary efforts by the Franciscans starting in the 1600s). Anba Athanasius returned to Orthodoxy soon, but other people continued in the line that began with him, though sometimes with interruptions (there was no Coptic Catholic patriarch between 1908 and 1947, for instance).
Possible that the wealth gathered in the time of crusades depraved their minds
It also what I think. But in both cases we land on the same conclusion: Maronites did not accepted the Pope by faith, or according on what he pretends to be.This started in the 15thC and as I see it, it was a combination of factors, the first being the oppression by the Ottoman Empire. A close second is what dzheremi suggests. Add those two together and see what you get.
Oh yes, so the chronology is: -16th Century, Maronites are in Union with Roma. 1584 the Pope Gregory build the Maronite College in Roma (to express his gratefulness) -and 14 years later in 1598 Roma tries to alters our very old liturgy. So here we see the intentions of this college…Fortunatelly an other synod at Harach in 1644 rehabilitates our Maronites liturgy! But unforunatelly, nowadays, as you mentionned everything is being lost…However I pray for our community to wake up, and I know that our Maronite monk still watch over us, and fight those “Romanisers” and Jesuits sect…Short answer: NO! I do, however, have to add that it wasn’t really due to any action on the part of our monks: remember that Dandini and his crew were sent by Rome. And thereafter, Rome opened the so-called Maronite college in Rome. It was the alumni of that college who poisoned things. One result was the synod of 1598. Another was the infamous “Black Council” of 1732. And keep in mind that the latinized books were never fully accepted, despite the Black Council, until the “Arab Awakening” in 19th Century and the subsequent beginning of the loss of our true Syriac identity. With a few notable exceptions including Moran Mor Elias Hoayek and Moran Mor Antonios Arida, it’s only gotten worse since then. We are now, sadly, in the blackest period of our history.
This started in the 15thC and as I see it, it was a combination of factors, the first being the oppression by the Ottoman Empire. A close second is what dzheremi suggests. Add those two together and see what you get.
This started in the 15thC and as I see it, it was a combination of factors, the first being the oppression by the Ottoman Empire. A close second is what dzheremi suggests. Add those two together and see what you get.
Short answer: NO! I do, however, have to add that it wasn’t really due to any action on the part of our monks: remember that Dandini and his crew were sent by Rome. And thereafter, Rome opened the so-called Maronite college in Rome. It was the alumni of that college who poisoned things. One result was the synod of 1598. Another was the infamous “Black Council” of 1732. And keep in mind that the latinized books were never fully accepted, despite the Black Council, until the “Arab Awakening” in 19th Century and the subsequent beginning of the loss of our true Syriac identity. With a few notable exceptions including Moran Mor Elias Hoayek and Moran Mor Antonios Arida, it’s only gotten worse since then. We are now, sadly, in the blackest period of our history.