My aim is to know the truth about my community! Why talking about schism whereas we, the Christians, are all linked and united by our Lord Jesus Christ ?
Fair enough. But let me ask you this (I’m sure this is on the minds of the moderators on CAF too) :
I’m not really sure “a few errors” is an accurate description of Jesuit interaction with the Maronites. Even pro-Maronite sources (e.g., Georges Labaki’s “The Maronites in the United States”, 1993, Notre Dame University of Louaize Press) describe them as having wrecked havoc on the Maronites upon discovering “errors” in their books. This is one of the major obstacles to removing Latinizations, oddly enough: The Maronites have been separated from the traditional history, spiritual, and liturgical sources not only from forces from within (i.e., neo-Latinzations imposed by their own bishops), but also from without, by outsiders who suppressed or chipped away at them under this or that pretext. The Jesuits are one such group of outsiders.
You’re not being true to what I said. I asked what’s so bad about the Jesuits i.e. As a whole. In the whole history its fair to say they are force for good and a lot more beneficial to the world than they are detrimental , no?
Of course. My community is in free fall, it needs a fresh impetus. Roma is leading us serenly straight to the ravine, broke communion with it will be good, very good on my mind.Fair enough. But let me ask you this (I’m sure this is on the minds of the moderators on CAF too) :
Would you have the Maronite Church break communion with Rome if you had your vision of the maronite church become reality?
And since you spoke in bad taste about the roman bishop. Do you believe in the teachings of Pontifical Primacy and infallibility?
This is honest curiosity to understand your point of view.
Hi Wandile. Having known you for some time – notwithstanding our disagreement on some matters – I must say that I would not expect you to post loaded questions like ^^ these.
Yeah, but when talking about the Maronites as a particular community what matters is how the Jesuits impacted the Maronites, not some vague notion that their history as a whole is on balance more good than bad. This thread is not about whether or not the Jesuits are good or bad on some kind of abstract world level.
You got that right.
Yeah Got that but your comment to my question is.
Nevermind how long ago this was and how the efforts of the Latins to correct past wrongs have greatly improved…They had be asked to confirm suspicions. And my suspicions about the OP were correct. Even for me it was a bit out of character but it had to be asked…Hi Wandile. Having known you for some time – notwithstanding our disagreement on some matters – I must say that I would not expect you to post loaded questions like ^^ these.
Brother, ** I live in, and am from, Africa**. Catholicism is rapidly growing and is a huge threat to Islam hence the rise of the radicals in recent times to prevent the growth of Catholicism and Christianity in Africa as a whole.
I don’t think ‘we’ can, but I’m also not sure that that’s what the OP is looking for. The opening post asks questions and doesn’t even bring up the Jesuits (that came later). I don’t think they’re even bad questions, really. Maybe upsetting the apple cart a bit in the way that they’re phrased, or how they don’t conform to the commonly taught history coming from the RCC, but…well, every communion has some of that. If the OPs questions are malformed, it’s probably a better idea to explain why that is rather than trying to absolve a different group that are not necessarily the main issue here.
Not being Maronite myself, I can’t really comment on this beyond saying that it is all a matter of perspective. Rome may have improved its relations with its Eastern compatriots (I don’t know), but…well, this kind of reminds me of something I recently saw elsewhere on the internet:We all have had our fare share of persecution whether be it religious, racial or whatever. But you can’t be antagonistic to a whole group because of the parts. Lest we are subjects of the fallacy of composition
Did Rome just say sorry or actively promote the easterners to attain their traditions again?I don’t think ‘we’ can, but I’m also not sure that that’s what the OP is looking for. The opening post asks questions and doesn’t even bring up the Jesuits (that came later). I don’t think they’re even bad questions, really. Maybe upsetting the apple cart a bit in the way that they’re phrased, or how they don’t conform to the commonly taught history coming from the RCC, but…well, every communion has some of that. If the OPs questions are malformed, it’s probably a better idea to explain why that is rather than trying to absolve a different group that are not necessarily the main issue here.
Not being Maronite myself, I can’t really comment on this beyond saying that it is all a matter of perspective. Rome may have improved its relations with its Eastern compatriots (I don’t know), but…well, this kind of reminds me of something I recently saw elsewhere on the internet:
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Broken_1ca324_5133214.png
It’s not that Rome or the Jesuits are inherently bad or anything, but that saying that “they’ve done a lot of good work in the world” or “they’ve made a lot of progress towards better relations” or anything else doesn’t fix the situation the Maronites are in. That’s not an attack on Rome or a call for schism or anything. That’s just the situation as some Maronites see it, and as a non-Maronite I would rather try to understand where they’re coming from than to assume that they are encouraging schism or being unfair or whatever. If you haven’t been through what they have (and you haven’t; and neither have I), it’s probably better to hear them out than to assume their motivations are this or that. Maybe they just want their church to be how it used to be and looking for ways to reclaim that?
I know you mean well and I respect you, but understand me… I just don’t like the idea that in order to discuss injustices , a whole,group must be slated for the evil actions of some of its parts. I’m all for de-Latinizations and eastern heritage recovery. But I’m against harboring Ill feeling and total condemnations of groups of people when these should be aimed at the people who actually did the deeds and supported them. Those people are dead though so its not constructive to go about solving stuff by living in the past. Move forward , that’s what The east and Rome are doing today although it could be better… But they are doing something instead of crying over spilt milk.
An interesting idea, given the thread topic and related issues. :ehh:
Depends upon whether you’re a Slav, Eskimo, or Pacific Coast Indian… for whom contact with the Jebbies was almost universally unhappy. For the Slavs, forced conversions are well documented (and part of why they were suppressed/disbanded by Rome).
I’m not saying forget the past. I’m saying we shouldn’t dwell ok the past because what’s in the past is in the past. We should move forward as the Church is trying to do.