Why marriage for homosexuals

[TheRealJuliane]

Why do homosexuals fight to be married when God stated that marriage is between a man and a woman? Why can’t a new union type be created-like a legal blendage especially for same sex couples? Could the same sex couples be that blind to the power of God? I would be pretty afraid of the future to look God squarely in the eye and say I am going to undo what you have created. History has some lessons on that, from the Pharaohs to wandering Jews. Give blendage all the legal rights of legal marriages, but not the sacramental blessings, which won’t happen anyway because same sex couples do not meet the requirements for a marriage in the eyes of God.

Homosexuals make up 2-3% at most of the population. Of that number, a very small percentage is agitating for equal rights to the state-approved civil marriage. Most homosexuals have not been discontent with their partnerships, but a small number have been activist about this issue, so that it seems that they have a large following and support from the gay community. It’s simply not true. In fact, I know of quite a few who wish those “loud and proud” people would just shut up and go away. Just as they also don’t approve of or enjoy the pornographic gay parades in cities like San Francisco. Most are decent people with otherwise normal lives, who would rather simply live quietly and not throw themselves into public view.

 

[OhioanJack]

OhioanJack;8064802:

Marriage is not a heterosexual privilege; it’s a human right. They want to be married just like heterosexual couples. It’s only fair. That’s literally the most simplistic and reasonable answer possible. The denial of this right is upsetting. Adam wouldn’t say, "Steve, will you civil union

me?" That’s pretty ridiculous!

Because it’s not fair…

There are plenty of gay Catholics and Christians on this lovely planet of ours, and saying things like that (“blind”) is really offensive, even if the Bible condemns it.

look JACK ,

Marriage is a heterosexual right only not because this country says so but because its God’s way and what he says . You are right to put Catholic by name only under your profile . It is not fair to God that he would make a person just so he or she can turn around and practice sexuality that would mock him . A man was not made to have sexual intercourse with another man. Let me explain : Male Homosexual acts involve the Rectum in a way not natural . God did not invent that part of your body for that . The reason why you and i are here is because God used a man and woman to create us not a man and a man or a woman and woman . Stop with these ridiculous liberal views that are trying to ruin this country . Bring these issues like Abortion and Homosexual marriage to a vote and they would be voted down forever . You and I both know that .

First of all, I am flummoxed that you would suggest that all homosexual men participate in homosexual acts “involv[ing] the rectum.” That’s not true at all and a very bad stereotype. Another thing that I want to make clear is that I am not a homosexual man; I am happily married with children, but I do strongly support homosexuals in their fight for social justice. And my liberal views aren’t ruining this country; they’re making this country. Voted down forever? I strongly disagree. Look at what just happened in the state of New York. Gay marriage was passed and it is excellent thing in my eyes, while you may not agree. I am just upset that people treat homosexuals the way that they do. It’s disgraceful and baffling to me. Do you realize that people kill themselves because of rejection? That’s awful and people say things like, “well, they shouldn’t have been gay,” or something of that nature. Do you understand how terrible that is? I don’t get it. Is it that difficult to accept people for who they are? I am aware that the Bible condemns homosexual acts, but it also condemns other things that are so outdated as well. With abortion, I understand where you’re coming from, but please don’t assume that you understand how it feels to have an abortion or that you know someone who has had abortion and you know how they feel. One my best friend’s girlfriends in high school had an abortion. People condemned her and ridiculed her, but that’s when I started changing my ideology and philosophy. I took up for her because no one understood how hard it was for her. Please, don’t attack my opinions and assume that you’re automatically right,

Jack

 

[OhioanJack]

Marriage is not a human right Jack. It’s denied to all kinds of people, not just homosexuals. Homosexuals are just the only ones making all the noise about not having their particular deviation made into a normalcy. It’s NOT all about homosexuals, DESPITE the fact that homosexuals are trying to make it that way. Society does not need to pretend a deviation of any kind is normal or healthy or acceptable just so the deviant can feel good to go with his deviancy.

It’s exclamations and opinions like yours that almost made me leave the Church completely, but I’ve still stayed all of these years. I am not a true Catholic, but I used to be as a teenager. I am no longer that true, devout, Catholic who is longing for God. I am just a Catholic atheist. But in response to your commentary…

Yes, it is denied to more than just homosexuals and that’s sad. But why are homosexuals making a bigger deal about it and making all of that so-called “noise?” Because there are millions upon millions of homosexuals that would love the human right to be married. Please don’t call homosexuality “unhealthy” or “abnormal.” It’s not at all either one of those things.

Jack

 

[UNITE_MY_WILL]

Defender1;8065407:

First of all, I am flummoxed that you would suggest that all homosexual men participate in homosexual acts “involv[ing] the rectum.” That’s not true at all and a very bad stereotype. Another thing that I want to make clear is that I am not a homosexual man; I am happily married with children, but I do strongly support homosexuals in their fight for social justice. And my liberal views aren’t ruining this country; they’re making this country. Voted down forever? I strongly disagree. Look at what just happened in the state of New York. Gay marriage was passed and it is excellent thing in my eyes, while you may not agree. I am just upset that people treat homosexuals the way that they do. It’s disgraceful and baffling to me. Do you realize that people kill themselves because of rejection? That’s awful and people say things like, “well, they shouldn’t have been gay,” or something of that nature. Do you understand how terrible that is? I don’t get it. Is it that difficult to accept people for who they are? All, especially those who profess to be a follower of Christ, should show every human being love, mercy and respect, all were made in the image of God and deserve to be treated as such. I’m sure it isn’t an easy cross to bear.

I am aware that the Bible condemns homosexual acts, but it also condemns other things that are so outdated as well. This is were we part ways. Being loving and respectful doesn’t mean we need to condone behavior that goes against God. I would, have and do treat homosexuals with love and respect without judgement insofar that we all have personal sins and judgement is for God. With abortion, I understand where you’re coming from, but please don’t assume that you understand how it feels to have an abortion or that you know someone who has had abortion and you know how they feel.You are correct, I don’t know or understand what it feels like to be in the position of having to make such a decision. I have nothing but sorrow for all parties involved. One my best friend’s girlfriends in high school had an abortion. People condemned her and ridiculed her, but that’s when I started changing my ideology and philosophy.I’m very sorry for your friend, it was the right and kind response for you to be there for suport. I took up for her because no one understood how hard it was for her. Please, don’t attack my opinions and assume that you’re automatically right,This is not an attack, but just because their are cruel, unloving and judgemental people, even to the point of causing suicide doesn’t make sin outdated or not sin, it just causes more sin, personal and societal. Just something to think about. God bless!

Jack

Peace & Truth,
T

 

[kanrok]

Here is a Church document I suggest everyone should read:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Peace,
Ed

+1

 

[kanrok]

Homosexuals make up 2-3% at most of the population. Of that number, a very small percentage is agitating for equal rights to the state-approved civil marriage. Most homosexuals have not been discontent with their partnerships, but a small number have been activist about this issue, so that it seems that they have a large following and support from the gay community. It’s simply not true. In fact, I know of quite a few who wish those “loud and proud” people would just shut up and go away. Just as they also don’t approve of or enjoy the pornographic gay parades in cities like San Francisco. Most are decent people with otherwise normal lives, who would rather simply live quietly and not throw themselves into public view.

I totally agree. I would change only one thing in this post. It’s not that t a very small percentage of homosexuals are agitating for equal rights to approved civil marriage. It is more accurate to say that a very small percentage of homosexuals take advantage of the “right” to marry once established. The argument for gay “marriage” has little to do with actual marriage. It has more to do with normalizing the gay “lifestyle.” By “lifestyle”, of course, we are talking about disordered sexual congress.

 

[JimG]

I totally agree. I would change only one thing in this post. It’s not that t a very small percentage of homosexuals are agitating for equal rights to approved civil marriage. It is more accurate to say that a very small percentage of homosexuals take advantage of the “right” to marry once established. The argument for gay “marriage” has little to do with actual marriage. It has more to do with normalizing the gay “lifestyle.” By “lifestyle”, of course, we are talking about disordered sexual congress.

I think you may be right about this. It’s not really about ‘homosexual marriage,’ which is simply an oxymoron. Same sex couples are not capable of engaging in marital relations. Even heterosexuals who are incapable of engaging in marital relations cannot marry validly. But with homosexuals it is an impossibility.

It is more about changing the definition of marriage. If the definition is so flexible as to include persons incapable of engaging in marital relations, then the institution is no longer marital, and provides no benefit to society. If that’s the case, the state has no need to recognize marriage at all.

But in so diluting the definition, the state also dilutes the institution itself, and thereby undermines society, pushing it further toward collapse. Perhaps our society has a death wish.

 

[aicirt]

However, I also do not see how the church or government can prevent people from entering a legal contract that says “when I am on my deathbed I want x to make decisions on my behalf, inherit my property, etc.” People would still have access to these regardless if we call them marriages or civil unions.

Neither the Church nor the state can prevent people from entering a legal contract. Any one is free to write a will or appoint any person through a 'POWER OF ATTORNEY" contract. You don’t have to be married or in a civil union to avail yourself of these. You can name anyone you wish as beneficary of an insurance policy.

 

[mariafransisca2]

Hello,

I don’t usually hang in this section. I hang in the Spirituality section. But I was caught by this thread called, can a homosexual be a heterosexual?

My answer would be YES!

Here is my story
I am a female, 21 years old, of chinese descendent, living in Indonesia. When I was around 14, I fell in love with this woman, her name was Sandra. She wasn’t that pretty, but I thought, at that time, something caught me more than just her externals. She was my english teacher at that time. Lo and behold, I experience that “falling in love” like, head over heels. I have never experienced that before. Before that I identify myself as a heterosexual. But after experiencing that falling in love, I don’t know anymore.

I started researching on the Internet, and I found this gay forum, which was horrible. And I made some friends. These friends were older than me. And have had more experiences in this matter, and one of them gave me “gay movies” And I started watching them.

I didn’t want to identify myself as a lesbian or bisexual, because I just don’t think I am. I was just in love with this person who happened to be a woman. But my weaknesses got in, and I started watching gay porn. And little by little I was lead to believe that I was gay.

She got married, and had to move to the US, because her husband is American. I was crushed, at that time, very crushed. And as a teenager, full of vigour and dreams, I think I would go to America and “stole” her from her husband so that she could be mine. And we can live happily ever after (haha, that was a MORTAL sin)

I wasn’t happy during that time, during my teenage years, I committed many mortal sins and lived far away from God. I got invoved in pornography almost daily and constantly, and I have to say, that I think it is almost impossible to be a homosexual and living chastely.

I gave up my school to earn this scholarship to America (my thinking at that time), but I failed. But during that time, I emailed her, around once every two weeks, and I let her know my feelings, how I was in love with her. She was happy to know that I was in love with her, and I guess our feelings were reciprocal. The only difference is that she didn’t consider herself to be gay, and she loves me, but not in that way.

When I was older, around 20 years old, I began to make sexual moves on her on our emails, because I was drunk. She never replied again, because she was hurt. She loves me and she had suggested that we should be friends, even friends till old age. She finds me interesting and a person with interesting and witty personality (in her own words), and I was touched.

But when I was around 16, my dad got in an affair, and I was desperate. I thought about committing a suicide ( a mortal sin, and I can go to hell straight away), but thankfully I didn’t have a courage. But I was desperate and have lost hope. I turned to Jesus. I said, putting my head near the closet, because I had been plundering about things in the bathroom, I said, Jesus, have mercy on me a sinner.

Jesus have mercy on me a sinner!

Jesus have mercy on me a sinner!

As many times as I liked. And I went to this place which I thought were a retreat place, but it was not. It was a rehabilitation centre. There were some mentally ill people (people who spoke to themselves), but some of them had the same complaints. They were stressed out with their lives. I stayed there about 3 months. I went to confession, read the bible, prayed the rosary daily. And everytime I fell, I just say, Jesus have mercy on me a sinner.

Truth be told, I was in desperate condition at that time, I did not feel like I was a human. I didn’t know what I was anymore, because of the sins I was involved before, because of being hurt by my father. But Jesus healed me little by little, he healed my soul, my body, but gradually. As I continued to say, Jesus have mercy on me a sinner!

After that I was taken to this monastery, a poor clares monastery, and I met this sister, Sister Elfrida. She was very sweet and gentle, she looked at my condition and felt pity on me. She helped me, and she asked me what was the problem. I said, I fell in love with this woman and I quit school to pursue her, she already had a husband. And this sister told me, you are not a homosexual. You are precious in the sight of God. You are smart, you are beautiful. In short, she made me feel like I am precious. And she gave me love.

Love and attention that I’ve been looking for from my mother and father yet have not had it.
And she told me, maybe you have heart wounds, you know, someone who have hurt you in the past, let’s take care of that.

And she asked me to tell her stories about my past. And I remembered vividly, that at around the age of 8 I saw my Dad watching porn, and I was horrified because at that time I didn’t know what it was. I just saw a woman naked, that’s all. And I was hurt. Because it was my DAD. He was supposed to be faithful and loving to my mother, not the other way around. And around that time also, I saw my mother and father “having sex”. They watched porn while doing it, and kept condoms in their room.

The keyhole at the door at that time is “peekable” , meaning, you can take a peek. So I did, and I saw my mother butt naked. And I was horrified!

There was this porn music surrounding it. And I was only eight. I know nothing about sex and it was my first time of knowing it in such a terrible and horrifying way.

Turned out, it hurt me. And after that I cannot make friends with any boy whatsoever and I think that boys are evil and dirty. Before that I have had friends who were boys, have had close ones as well. They were Weyta and Weyli.

 

[mariafransisca2]

So, in my teenage years I began having attractions to girls and shunned boys. Boys are evil (in my thought). It was the relationship I had with my father.

So, this sister asked me, if you want to cry you could. And I cried like crazy. I said I have been having this burden, of seeing my dad watched porn and my parents together together, and could not yet figure it out, all my life. And this sister helped me. She said I should forgive my parents, especially my dad. That way, I will be healed.

So, I prayed the rosary countless of times to forgive my dad. Besides, in my teenage years, my dad did some horrible things to me, he taught me self help books which was of no use, because at that time I was still 13. And have no interest in it whatsoever. I think that self help books are lies. Because you don’t depend on God to solve your problems, or to help you, but you depend on your own powers and intellect. And yes, they are lies. We can do nothing without God. We cannot help ourselves. Only God can.

Plus, he almost committed adultery when I was 16, so I was just very very confused about my dad. So, I forgive him. I said, Father, forgive my father for he knew not what he did, and say as many hail marys as I like until I feel deep peace in my heart and Jesus healed my heart.

I still feel same sex attraction now, but I shun it off. I tend not to look at women in the face, I cast my eyes down. But I do experience attraction to men too, so I consider myself to be normal.

This another sister, of Carmel, told me, that homosexuals, transgenders, they are just hurt by their parents (father or mother), and almost all of them had bad relationship or is not loved by their father or mother. Or, when they were in the womb, they were expected another sex than what they are. For example, if a mother had a baby boy, but she expected to have a baby girl. The stronger the expectation, the more rejection the baby boy felt, so when he grew up, especially during his teenage years, he will become effeminate to fulfill the expectations of her mother. To get the love from her mother. To be accepted as he is.

The only way to heal this, is by prayer of healing. That if the boy forgives his mother, who had expected him to be a girl when in the womb, and somebody or the boy himself pray a prayer of healing and forgiveness. He will be healed.

There is no homosexuals or transgenders. There are just heart wounds. Heart wounds because of being hurt by a father or a mother. Or looking for a mother figure or a father figure.

I know because during my childhood I was quite a tomboy. When I was in my teenage years I desired to be a real woman, because I find that many boys were attracted to me, so I think I would like to be a pretty woman. Not a tomboy. But I found it very hard.

This sister of Carmel asked me to ask my mother if she had expected me to be a boy when I was in the womb. And since I was the first child, my mother said, yes, during the first months I had expected you to be a boy and had looked baby boy clothes and toys.

There you go! The source of me being a tomboy. I used to have short hair. But now I grow it, to be have a long hair. Since in the bible it is said that it is a sign of honor for a woman to have a long hair.

So, this sister of Carmel, whose name is Sister Vianney, prayed a prayer of healing when I was in the womb, so that I can be a fully woman, not a tomboy anymore, and it worked!

I pray also, and I forgive my mother for wanting me to be a boy when I was in the womb. Maybe it is the reason why I had been having same sex attraction in the first place.

I am not saying I am fully healed but I think 80%. I had asked Jesus, Jesus, why do I still experience same sex attraction (especially to those woman who is especially pretty and dress immodestly), why don’t you take that away from me? I do not want it anymore?

I do not yet have the answer, but it is just a cross I have to bear daily and patiently.
I have made a decision to live chastely and keep my virginity for Jesus for all time. And have decided to live a single life for him. For now and forever. That means, forgoing marriage.

I find that the love of Jesus suffices for me. He is my life, my love, my happiness. I love him more than anything. More than anyone. He is my everything. I am his spouse. He is my bridegroom and I am his bride.

If you want to learn more about being the bride of Christ, and the love he has for you as his spouse, you should read Spiritual Canticle of the Soul - by St. John of the Cross. It is written in a loving tone of a spouse. Christ is your bridegroom, and you are his bride. St. John of the Cross were completely in love with the Lord, and it is written in the same tone of Song of Songs.

Actually the book of Song of Songs, is directed to us. Christ is speaking to us as his wife, as his spouse, which he considers pretty and beautiful.

You should also read Interior Castle - By St. Teresa of Avila. In it, Jesus revealed to St. Teresa of Avila that a soul in a state of Grace is compared to a castle made of Crystal. The beauty is incomparable, because God dwells in the deepest recesses of the castle, that is the 7th mansion, the deepest recesses of our hearts.

The beauty of the soul.

That is what Jesus said in the Song of Songs. The beauty of a soul in a state of Grace. Jesus is in love with me and I with him.

It is only I and him. He looks at me and I look at him.

 

[mariafransisca2]

About Sandra, I emailed her awhile back, to say that I am sorry. And I want to be her friend, her best friend. And I experienced that sort of “in love” feelings all over again. So I asked Jesus, Jesus, what is this love that I have for Sandra. Why do I feel this way toward her, like to none others. I have never felt this to anyone, not even a boy. So I ask him, is it possible for a soul who is a woman to be in love with another soul who is a woman?

And Jesus let me know through interior inspiration, that this in fact is possible. In love, with a chaste love. I had been listening to Jason Evert about chastity, so I feel drawn to this beautiful virtue called chastity. I want to live a chaste life for Jesus. I remembered that St. John of the Cross, in his Spiritual Canticle, St. John is a man, and he considered himself to be a bride of Christ, and Christ is his bridegroom. And he is in love with Christ, with a chaste love.

And I thought to myself, isn’t he a male?

But I tried not to dwell on it, because God is a mystery. God is love. So love is a mystery.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen had a talk, titled, Sex is a mystery.

I agree with him.

So I said, Jesus, I am happy that Sandra have a wonderful and loving husband. I am happy for her. As a sister, as a mother, as a daughter. She doesn’t have any children, so I said to her, I can be your daughter. To put things in perspective. I love her, as a mother, as a daughter, and as a sister.

And as a best friend. And yes, I am still in love with her. She is my best friend.

This morning, I experience the same feeling of in love, with the Mother of God. Mother Mary. I said, Mother, you are so beautiful, I am in love with you.

And she answered, I am in love with you too.

See, we can love one another with a chaste love, as Jesus had loved us. And how has he loved us, read the Song of Songs, and you will understand. It is written in a tone of a loving spouse. Christ is your bridegroom, and you are his bride.

I do believe we can fall in love with another soul, who is the same sex as ours, we love her as a sister, as a daughter, as a mother. If you are a male, then as a brother, as a father, as a son.

If you want to know why I said this, it is because we are created in the image and likeness of God. God is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The Father loves the Son, in the Holy Spirit. And if you listen to Christopher West, Man and Woman is created in the image and likeness of God, the Love that God share between the three persons, The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, is intended that a Man and a Woman share that too. In sexual relationship, that is faithful, total, fruitful. The Fruit is children.

Just like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who is love. Actually, Family is made in the image and likeness of God. It reflects the relationship God has in the trinity. The relationship of Love. Eternal love that The Father give to the Son, totally in the holy spirit. And the happiness they share. That is why we are called to love one another as Jesus loved us, and to be one with him.

It is a mystery, it says in the bible, of the unity of Man and Woman, in marriage. It reflects the marriage of the Lamb. The eternal love we will share, in the divine life of the Father, and of the Son, the love that they share, in the holy spirit. In the words of Christopher West, the eternal explosion of Love.

We are Created in the Image and likeness of God who is Love. God is love and mercy itself. So, we have to love one another as Jesus have loved us.

How had he loved us? By dying on the cross for us. To redeem us. Forgiving us of all our sins and adopting us as the sons and daughters of God. We are also his spouse. So… Love is a mystery. The love that spouses share, man and woman, is a mystery.

And this love can only be realized, if we live in full communion with Christ, and abide in his love. So that we can share the love that we feel from God, to one another. And love one another as Jesus had loved us.

May the merciful Jesus bless you, and grant you understanding about the beauty of human sexuality. That the sexuality that he has given us as a gift, and it is a beautiful gift. And he has a plan for our sexuality. And that plan is chastity.

I think Sandra has an inexplicably beautiful Soul and I love her. As a friend, as a mother, as a daughter, and as a sister. God has permitted me to love her, even encouraged me.
When I opened my heart to love her, there is a whole lot of horizons opened for me. My relationship with God grew more personal, with Mother Mary and with my brothers and sisters saints. She is my best friend, and God has decided it before he founded the world. I just had a bad time of realizing it, and fitting it in God’s plan for me in my life. I misunderstood my own feelings, while he gave me Sandra, for my best friend. To heal me. To love me. And to love. So that we can be the image and likeness of God who is love. We can be like God. God who is love and mercy itself.

Now I go to confession weekly, have 4 regular confessors, and I love Jesus more than anything in the world!

My homepage:
chastityislove.blogspot.com/
saintsarefamily.blogspot.com/

Links:

Christopher West - Theology of the Body
Christopher West Free Audio - Naked Without Shame
Free Saints Books
saintsbooks.net/BooksList.html
basilica.org/pages/ebooks.php
everycatholicblog.blogspot.com/

 

[mariafransisca2]

Please pray for her, isnt’ she lovely?

May the merciful Jesus bless you

 

[mariafransisca2]

When I was “insane” I have thought of marrying Sandra Haha. It was a mortal sin and I have confessed it.

Now I love her as a friend, as a mother, as a daughter, and as a sister.

She is a daughter of God.

May the merciful Jesus bless you.

Sexual unions is between man and woman. Not between the same sex. It should be total, faithful, fruitful (children), and homosexual unions can never satisfy those. It is not total, faithful, fruitful, nor chaste.

Homosexual persons who act on their desires are not chaste. Chastity is love. And chastity is a virtue.

 

[CMatt25]

You assume that all homosexuals believe in God. They don’t.

Not all heterosexuals believe in God either.

Many homosexuals and gay rights advocates believe in God. Worshiping Him having found welcoming homes in the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church, among others. There are believers who avail themselves to Dignity or churches recommended by the New Ways Ministry. There is even the Metropolitan Church which I think if I’m not mistaken, came about with a purpose of specifically reaching out to the GLBT community.

 

[CMatt25]

harp on the gay issue, but then refuse for force a rape victim to marry her rapist, and refuse to stone adulterers to death, and refuse to follow all the other Mosaic laws, while selectively troubling their little minds over sexuality. It is not a big deal. Just as it is not a big deal whether you mix different fibers in your clothing, or whether a man shaves his face.

Exactly. There are many things not taken literally. Besides slavery, one of my favorites is women keeping silent in churches.

 

[CMatt25]

Marriage is not a heterosexual privilege; it’s a human right. They want to be married just like heterosexual couples. It’s only fair. That’s literally the most simplistic and reasonable answer possible.

Exactly when speaking about a civil right to a civil marriage license issued by the state in a secular democracy of plural beliefs where religion does not have to play a role in performing a ceremony if a particular religion chooses not to.

 

[CMatt25]

The majority of activist homosexuals are agnostic, atheist, or contemptuous of God. Infected by the modern humanist movement, they gleefully spit in the Lord’s Face. Most of them don’t even care whether He exists at all.

Wow. There was also the earlier poster who said most do not believe. They gleefully spit in the Lord’s face and don’t care whether He exists? Unless we have spoken to the majority, such statements don’t seem very charitable. I’ve previously been told I want to spit in the face of Catholics based on my participation on the forum. And nothing could be further from the truth. You wouldn’t want someone of another faith saying Catholics spit in the Lord’s face.

 

[John21652]

Defender1;8065407:

First of all, I am flummoxed that you would suggest that all homosexual men participate in homosexual acts “involv[ing] the rectum.” That’s not true at all and a very bad stereotype.

If sodomy is a bad stereotype, then you’d better start writing to all the gay web sites that actually show men how to penetrate one another’s rectums safely. Gee, a whole lot of them even have pretty pictures just so their customers will do it right. And while you are at it, you’d better write to the United nations, because they spend a whole lot of dollars on trying to get homosexuals to practice ‘safe’ sex. Considering the disease rates amongst homosexual men and the other physical complaints they inflict on one another, the message isn’t getting through. Considering what you have told us, the message must be wrong!

Another thing that I want to make clear is that I am not a homosexual man; I am happily married with children, but I do strongly support homosexuals in their fight for social justice

Social Justice has many different definitions. What’s yours? The gays already have all the same legal protections that ordinary citizens have. The idea of two people of the same sex marrying, however, is an attempt at making something that is not equal, equal. That’s not social justice. That’s just convoluted thinking.

.

And my liberal views aren’t ruining this country; they’re making this country. Voted down forever? I strongly disagree. Look at what just happened in the state of New York. Gay marriage was passed and it is excellent thing in my eyes, while you may not agree.

All around you, the basic institutions of the Western Christian Judeo society are being attacked and are crumbling. You might be blind to that, but many aren’t. The shared morality that built the great western civilisations is being torn down. It has happened to many civilisations and empires in the past and they all crumpled.

I am just upset that people treat homosexuals the way that they do. It’s disgraceful and baffling to me. Do you realize that people kill themselves because of rejection? That’s awful and people say things like, “well, they shouldn’t have been gay,” or something of that nature. Do you understand how terrible that is? I don’t get it. Is it that difficult to accept people for who they are?

It’s a pity you can’t come down off your high horse for a while and maybe do some research. The Catholic Catechism condemns active homosexuality but not the person. Read all about it right here.

I am aware that the Bible condemns homosexual acts, but it also condemns other things that are so outdated as well.

This is where your flawed theology has led you up the garden path. You need to read St. Paul and how he showed what of the old laws apply to Christianity and those which don’t. he pointed out that many of the old laws to which you refer apply to the Jews, but not to the gentiles. That’s what made Christianity universal. Off you go and do some homework.

With abortion, I understand where you’re coming from, but please don’t assume that you understand how it feels to have an abortion or that you know someone who has had abortion and you know how they feel. One my best friend’s girlfriends in high school had an abortion.

Amazing! You start by telling us we don’t know understand what it feels like to have an abortion, then you launch straight in to telling us that you know a friend of a friend…obviously you think that’s first hand experience. The thing is, none of us has to stick our heads in an oven to know it’s bad for you. Understanding does not require first hand experience. It’s called 'empathy. Abortion is condemned as murder of innocent children. Those who go down that path and participate in the dreadful act are counselled, not condemned.

People condemned her and ridiculed her, but that’s when I started changing my ideology and philosophy. I took up for her because no one understood how hard it was for her. Please, don’t attack my opinions and assume that you’re automatically right,

You do not have a coherent ideology or philosophy. You have adopted what is called a morall relativity, which basically excuses anything that goes. Abortion is OK if it suits the circumstances. Homosexuality is Ok because that’s just the way certain people are. All very convenient, but also very poor morality, which every society needs to function properly. Moral relativity is wrong and if you adopt it then you are wrong too.

 

[EasterJoy]

Exactly when speaking about a civil right to a civil marriage license issued by the state in a secular democracy of plural beliefs where religion does not have to play a role in performing a ceremony if a particular religion chooses not to.

OK, but why ought the state be in the business of issuing a license for marriage? Why should the state be regulating this? Even in secular society, how a state decides to handle the question of marriage depends on what marriage is and why the state foresees needing to be involved in it at all.

If marriage is to be re-defined so that it is not about biological inheritance and the raising of biological children, then society needs to return to its starting axioms and ask “What is this legal vehicle? Why should it exist, and to what ends should it be in service? In light of this new meaning, who has a right to make use of it? What are the reasons that those who do not marry should support enshrining it into law?” I think the answer is that when marriage is not about two people producing children and giving them identity in a stable family with their own parents, then marriage does not need to be organized around a single central sexual relationship at all. I don’t see a reason it might be about any relationship or relationships that some adults might choose to make permanent. The choice becomes arbitrary.

IOW: How does one define a marriage between homosexuals such that it is the business of the state, but other durable relationships between adults who do not have a sexual relationship is not the business of the state? I can’t see an answer to that. Once you make the leap of imagination that equates homosexuality and heterosexuality, in fairness should your imagination stop there?

 

[EasterJoy]

Marriage is not a heterosexual privilege; it’s a human right. They want to be married just like heterosexual couples. It’s only fair. That’s literally the most simplistic and reasonable answer possible. The denial of this right is upsetting. Adam wouldn’t say, “Steve, will you civil union me?” That’s pretty ridiculous!

Because it’s not fair…

I suspect that homosexuals know that it usually sounds ridiculous to use a noun phrase as if it were a verb. (How I wish this truth were more widely appreciated.)

Saying that Adam could have followed the command to “be fruitful and multiply” with a Steve is what is pretty ridiculous. How that is frustrating is understandable, but how that is unfair is beyond a great many of us.

Like it or not, they can’t be married just like heterosexual couples. They can pretend that a relationship based on homosexuality is identical to a relationship based on heterosexuality, but that doesn’t make it so. A scientist may be able to give them a child, but Adam and Steve make an inherently sterile union.

They can make music and raise children and do many wonderful things, but which one can’t be done by the nuns in a convent? Love each other? Be committed to each other? Serve society by their commitment? Don’t you see that the sexual relationship is irrelevant to all the wonderful things? The sex has nothing to do with anyone but them.

In the future, marriage for homosexuals will be legal in every state. That’s not an opinion; it’s a fact. Google “New York Gay Marriage 2011.” It’s a reality.

Jack

Just like the speed limit will be 55 mph everywhere in every state? Seeing a legislative trend does not give you a crystal ball.