"Why Moral Absolutes Matter." A Catholic's Explanation

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God decides. He makes it known to us through Scripture and His Church founded on Peter/Rock. As a matter of fact, that’s why the office of an infallible papacy is so necessary. Truth is extremely important to the Lord - so important than He says He IS the truth in John 14:6. The Church is His "body", He is the head. Thus, He made provision that it speak only Truth.
 
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JGD said:
God decides. He makes it known to us through Scripture and His Church founded on Peter/Rock.
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People interpret scripture differently. There’s less interpretation regarding certain aspects of morality that the church teaches. How did you decide that they were correct?
 
JGD said:
Sorry, did some editing and added to my first post on the topic.
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The question still remains: How did you personally decide that what the church teaches is a correct interpretation of God’s will?
 
Freddy said:
The question still remains: How did you personally decide that what the church teaches is a correct interpretation of God’s will?
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That requires a bit of my background. Very briefly, born Catholic - good solid teaching in the faith. Then lost my faith in Jesus which only made me totally miserable. However always believed in God, even as a child thinking on my own - as described by St. Paul in Romans 1: 19 & 20. So I just kept begging God for peace - or the truth. He gave me the truth - Alleluia!
Once I had my faith in Jesus back, faith in Catholicism was automatic. And, I don’t mean to offend any Protestants who may read this, but I could never understand how anyone familiar with Scripture could be anything BUT Catholic. As a youth, all I needed was Matthew 16:18 - “You are Rock/Peter and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (We had daily Mass in Catholic school, and a lot of Scripture gets read in every Mass. It all agreed with what I was being taught.) Years of subsequent Scripture reading and pondering have revealed Catholicism all over the place in Scripture!!! - Old and New Testament. Love it. 💕 ⛪ 💕

In Matthew 16:19 Jesus tells Peter, “I will give you” (you is singular even tho’ other apostles present) “the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Jesus, who is Truth, would most certainly never allow anything false or erroneous to be bound in heaven!
 
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JGD said:
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Freddy:
The question still remains: How did you personally decide that what the church teaches is a correct interpretation of God’s will?
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That requires a bit of my background. Very briefly, born Catholic - good solid teaching in the faith. Then lost my faith in Jesus which only made me totally miserable. However always believed in God, even as a child thinking on my own - as described by St. Paul in Romans 1: 19 & 20. So I just kept begging God for peace - or the truth. He gave me the truth - Alleluia!
Once I had my faith in Jesus back, faith in Catholicism was automatic. And, I don’t mean to offend any Protestants who may read this, but I could never understand how anyone familiar with Scripture could be anything BUT Catholic. As a youth, all I needed was Matthew 16:18 - “You are Rock/Peter and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (We had daily Mass in Catholic school, and a lot of Scripture gets read in every Mass.) Years of subsequent Scripture reading and pondering have revealed Catholicism all over the place in Scripture!!! - Old and New Testament. Love it. 💕 ⛪ 💕

In Matthew 16:19 Jesus tells Peter, “I will give you” (you is singular even tho’ other apostles present) “the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Jesus, who is Truth, would most certainly never allow anything false or erroneous to be bound in heaven!
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You sound like a very lucky person to find what you felt you needed. Not everyone gets to that point.

But what you are telling me in effect is that God told you that His word was correct. Now I shouldn’t have to tell you how tight a circular argument that is.

J: God’s word is the truth.
F: How do you know that?
J: Because God told me.

It doesn’t explain anything from my position.
 
What is your position. eg. Are you a believing Christian? Catholic? Do you, or did you ever, believe in God? What do you believe about Scripture?

I know I was very fortunate – but “I” didn’t find it. IT WAS A GIFT from God - both times!!! First from my birth - by God gifting me to be born into a Catholic family. But I blew that one in my 20s through my own reasoning and material I was reading. The second time was pure gift also - a conversion type experience.

I can’t give you some sort of syllogism for how I reasoned my way into faith, because I never did that. I reasoned my way out of it!!! Faith was a gift both times. Once I had the gift back, reason supported that gift, contributed to its growth.
 
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JGD said:
What is your position. eg. Are you a believing Christian? Catholic? Do you, or did you ever, believe in God? What do you believe about Scripture?

I know I was very fortunate – but “I” didn’t find it. IT WAS A GIFT from God - both times!!! First from my birth - by God gifting me to be born into a Catholic family. But I blew that one in my 20s through my own reasoning and material I was reading. The second time was pure gift also - a conversion type experience.

I can’t give you some sort of syllogism for how I reasoned my way into faith, because I never did that. I reasoned my way out of it!!! Faith was a gift both times. Once I had the gift back, reason supported that gift, contributed to its growth.
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Brought up as a Christian, became an atheist. I don’t think I ever believed as such.

But you haven’t responed to my point about the circularity of your position. In fact you seem to have just emphasised it. That God told you that God was right. You either accept that, in which case I reject the validity of any moral position that you hold based on that. Or you give me reasons why God say x is wrong.
 
You’re asking me to give you human reasoning for my gift of faith and as I’ve said, I don’t have any – it was given to me. I referenced the Romans text. My mind thought that way before I ever knew about that Scripture passage. I can’t remember a time when I didn’t believe in a Creator God. Maybe my circumstances were different from yours. I grew up in a small town where you could see all the stars in the sky - contemplate the immensity of it all, etc. I could lay on my stomach and watch little bitty ants busy, see the beauty in a dandelion, … All of that is reality – beauty, immensity, order.

Can we turn this around for a moment – and I mean no offense, believe me. I’ve never interacted with an atheist before, but somehow I feel comfortable asking you my question/s. Since I was a very young girl and first heard about atheists, I could never understand how someone could be one. God’s existence was just so obvious to me from the very existence of the universe. Could you explain how you see the existence of the universe, and it’s beauty and order etc. without a Creator? (“Chance” has always seemed to me like an easy cop-out when there was no better explanation.) It just takes so much FAITH to be an atheist!!!

What made you doubt belief in God?
 
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JGD said:
What made you doubt belief in God?
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Some atheists will point to the question of evil and suffering in the world. God is all perfect, all loving, all powerful and all knowing. And yet there are helpless children, who through no fault of their own, have to suffer through horrific diseases and hunger. Why doesn’t God help them at least a little bit?
 
JGD said:
You’re asking me to give you my human reasoning for my gift of faith…
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No, that wasn’t my question. I completely accept your reasons for having the faith that you do. And it sounds like a wonderful gift you’ve been given. But…

…you believe some things to be true because God says so. OK, we’ll go with that. But what are the reasons do you think why He says they are true.

If you don’t have reasons then I’m not in a position to be able to accept your viewpoint on moral matters any more than you could accept a Hindu saying ‘this is right because Shiva says so’. We’d both reject that and hopefully we’d both ask ‘but why does Shiva say it’s ok?’.

I’m just doing myself what we’d both be doing in that situation.

And I never believed in God. Both my parents did and I was brought up as an Anglican. Spent a lot of time in church when I was young. But I thought the stories I was being told were just that. Stories which would encourage us to be good. It was only when I started my confirmation classes (aged 14 or so?) which would allow me to take communion that it dawned on me: ‘Gee, I’m meant to take all this seriously. Everyone I know actually believes all this!’

I realised I didn’t.
 
AlNg said:
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JGD:
What made you doubt belief in God?
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Some atheists will point to the question of evil and suffering in the world. God is all perfect, all loving, all powerful and all knowing. And yet there are helpless children, who through no fault of their own, have to suffer through horrific diseases and hunger. Why doesn’t God help them at least a little bit?
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I must say that I never found that convincing. And didn’t approach the question for a very long time after I’d realised I didn’t believe.

The question of evil simply makes God a less personal God. It doesn’t indicate to me that He doesn’t exist. Just that He wouldn’t be as generally described by most Christians as a loving and caring God.
 
Freddy said:
He doesn’t exist. Just that He wouldn’t be as generally described by most Christians as a loving and caring God.
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The problem is that according to Christianity and in some other religions, God has the properties of all loving, all powerful, all knowing, etc. If you deny these properties, then what you are speaking of is not the Christian God.
 
AlNg said:
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Freddy:
He doesn’t exist. Just that He wouldn’t be as generally described by most Christians as a loving and caring God.
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The problem is that according to Christianity and in some other religions, God has the properties of all loving, all powerful, all knowing, etc. If you deny these properties, then what you are speaking of is not the Christian God.
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True. But that’s what generally happens. And I think it did in my case. I rejected the parts of Christianity that were easily dealt with in the first instance - 7 day creation, a literal Adam and Eve, the flood etc. Then kept rejecting more and more until I’d reached something of a deist stage. And after a few years of contemplating that found that even that wasn’t required.

Belief was like a flywheel. My personal situation made sure it was spinning in a direction that made it easy to accept what I was being told. But each small rejection slowed it down more and more until it eventually stopped. It took a long time.

Now it’s spinning quite fast in the opposite direction!
 
Freddy said:
No, that wasn’t my question. I completely accept your reasons for having the faith that you do. And it sounds like a wonderful gift you’ve been given. But…

…you believe some things to be true because God says so. OK, we’ll go with that. But what are the reasons do you think why He says they are true.
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I ask God “why” all the time. Once in a great while I’ll get an answer quick - usually small things. The big “why’s” often took awhile; can’t remember what they all were. Usually there was groundwork that had to be laid first (prerequisites, so to speak) before the answer could be grasped properly. Didn’t recognize that at the time tho’. Most of the big “why’s” God has taken care of at this point.

But I’ve had loads of why"s:
Why is premarital sex wrong?
Why is contraceptive wrong?
Why were the apostles afraid to question You?
And on and on and on.

It’s difficult to describe what happens when an answer comes. It’s like the truth of it just resonates interiorly. (I’m not talking about supernatural locutions, altho those can happen also. Rather, the answer might come in a book, or from something someone says, or just a thought…)
Asking God “why” is great. I hope you can find Him and start asking Him your "why"s. If you want the truth, you’ll love finally getting an answer.
If you don’t have reasons then I’m not in a position to be able to accept your viewpoint on moral matters any more than you could accept a Hindu saying ‘this is right because Shiva says so’. We’d both reject that and hopefully we’d both ask ‘but why does Shiva say it’s ok?’.
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I’m not asking you to accept my viewpoint on a moral matter or any matter. I wish I could give you faith, but I can’t. Only God can do that. But He won’t force it on you. All I can do is share with you the truths in the faith I believe in – the truths of the Catholic faith.
 
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JGD said:
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Freddy:
No, that wasn’t my question. I completely accept your reasons for having the faith that you do. And it sounds like a wonderful gift you’ve been given. But…

…you believe some things to be true because God says so. OK, we’ll go with that. But what are the reasons do you think why He says they are true.
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I ask God “why” all the time.

But I’ve had loads of why"s:
Why is premarital sex wrong?
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That prompts the question:.Why does God think it’s wrong? And I presume that you mean under any and all circumstances.
 
Freddy said:
Then kept rejecting more and more until I’d reached something of a deist stage. And after a few years of contemplating that found that even that wasn’t required.
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What do you mean when you say you found that “even that wasn’t required”? Required for what?
 
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