If we were dualists it might, but it would seem to me that Heaven can exist independent of Hell. Consider that Hell exists because there are those that reject God’s love, if no one had rejected God’s love there would be no need for Hell, but there would still be a need for Heaven.
Isn’t it that Satan loved heaven so much he wanted to be the ruler of it. It was God who cast Satan to hell. Satan did not choose to leave
It depends what you mean by predestination.
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* fitted - Greek: katartizo- to complete thoroughly; fit; frame; arrange; prepare**Romans 8:29,30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Catholics believe in predestination. We do not believe in the Calvinistic novelty of** double predestination** – that some individuals are specifically, personally predestined for Heaven and others for Hell. Jimmy Aikin handles this subject deftly.
Almost - but not quite. Jimmy Akins article (I wish I had the link) explains the positions a bit differently. Actually, Catholics ala Augustine and/or Aquinas can and do believe in the Predestination of the elect to Heaven - there are several views that are allowed. On predestination to Hell is not allowed. The entire concept of predestination of the elect is predestined to final perseverence and ultimate eternal salvation. Predestination is a meaningless concept if it is not a predestination to something. And a predestination of individuals to heaven is a reality as well.
Foreknowledge is not Predestination. They have different definitions. Of course God knows everything. But he also predetermines the outcome of somethings as scripture testifies to numerous times. People may not be predestined to Hell but people are predestined to Heaven based on God’s eternal decision to save and sustain them in the faith. A mystery. But also a fact.
Thank you everyone, for your responses.
No, actually…he didn’t/hasn’t. If he had experienced heaven (the Beatific Vision), he would not have been able to rebel against God, because he would have already made his choice.
We are “predestined” to be saved if we die in a state of grace.
likewise there was no mention of heaven until after the fall.
I thought the general understanding was that Lucifer was cast out of heaven when he rebelled against God? Further in general I thought theologically, heaven is generally considered the beatific vision; if that is the case, then heaven by definition is as eternal as God is.
If by “the fall”, you mean the fall of the angels, then I won’t argue with you. But if you’re referring to the fall of man, then I would disagree, since at that time there would already have been angels in Heaven…and, for that matter, Satan and his demons in Hell.
That’s somewhat of a common misunderstanding. You could say that Lucifer and his demons were cast out of the heavens, but even that’s really something more allegorical/poetic, since Lucifer and the rest of his demons (who are not physical beings) didn’t literally fall out of the sky. The thing is, if Lucifer had been in Heaven (if he had seen the Beatific Vision), then would not have been able to rebel against God, since he would have by definition already made the choice to follow Him. Since angels have a pure intellect, they are capable of making a perfectly informed decision, and therefore any decision that they make is final and irreversible, simply by their nature…they can’t even want to change their minds, because there’s nothing else out there that they could discover (that they didn’t already know when they made the decision) that could make them want to change their minds. Therefore, none of the angels were actually in Heaven or Hell (which for them is really more of a state of existence rather than it is an actual physical location) before they made their decision to either follow or rebel against God…it simply something that followed as an immediate consequence to their choice.
I guess I would agree with you. It’s just tricky when there’s no one else besides God Himself actually experiencing the Beatific Vision…whether or not it would be correct to say that Heaven already exists, or rather that it more properly began when the first angel entered into it. I’m not really sure, but I would tend to agree with you if I really had to make a decision.
Masterjedi and mchale- LOLOLOL
Where did you get this philosophy from, because it does not make sense? Just because people are different and they make different decisions does not mean there is no true free will. It is false logic.