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Fuerza
Guest
You need to relax. This is not a competition. It was a good-natured post. Besides, in an old church with no heating, less than 60 degrees outside is also less than 60 degrees inside…and we still don’t wear coats.
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Cathryn
Guest
stcatherineparish.net/images/historyimages/old_church_interior.htm
Seems to be a long tradition of Catholics at the Sacrifice of the Mass wearing their coats in winter. See above link. I don’t think we should try to behave more like the Protestants and heat our churches more.
Seems to be a long tradition of Catholics at the Sacrifice of the Mass wearing their coats in winter. See above link. I don’t think we should try to behave more like the Protestants and heat our churches more.
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Sarabande
Guest
I forgot about that. I know that there have been times when the priests sometimes get really hot and will ask the sacristan to open the doors even when it was cold outside - not frigid, but cold.
In terms of turning up the heat or the cold, I know that it costs lots of money to heat and cool our large cathedral - a cathedral with only about 600 households - not of a wealthy sort - and who depends on the generosity of visitors as it doesn’t receive much from the diocese. I can understand pastors cutting the costs by keeping the temperature low.
Quite honestly, as others have said, this is totally a non-issue. I have never pondered this until now and I know most people I know don’t ponder why we don’t have coat racks. If you’re cold, keep the coat on. If hot, take it off. No big deal. Most people don’t contemplate this, most people won’t judge you for keeping the coat one. This just seems to be a whole new and ridiculous reason to be judgemental. Sorry… I just got off the Long Island Railroad, packed like a sardine with really rude and judgemental people around me - reminded me of why I don’t commute every day to NYC or live in LI.
Although at the same time, I can understand why people do get really grumpy if you have to do a trip like that every day.
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baltobetsy
Guest
Having grown up in Catholic churches wearing my coat, when I began to sing professionally in protestant churches, I thought it was a little odd that they hung up their coats and made themselves at home in church as they do. In the Episcopal church where I sing now, the ambulatory outside the main church is lined with a coat hanging arrangement that includes pegs and shelves. You’ll see coats, hats & boots there all winter.
About keeping one’s purse safe, that reminds me of something someone said about leaving one’s umbrella in the back of church. If you leave it in a protestant church, you’ll come back and find it. In the Catholic church, where we have confessionals and use them, your umbrella will be gone! When I visit the Cathedral for Sunday Mass, there is always an announcement (right after the one asking us to silence cell phones and pagers) requesting that we not leave valuables in the pew when we come to receive Communion. We Catholics are more realistic (pessimistic?) about human nature than the protestants, but the protestants seem to live up to the expectations, at least at church.
Betsy
About keeping one’s purse safe, that reminds me of something someone said about leaving one’s umbrella in the back of church. If you leave it in a protestant church, you’ll come back and find it. In the Catholic church, where we have confessionals and use them, your umbrella will be gone! When I visit the Cathedral for Sunday Mass, there is always an announcement (right after the one asking us to silence cell phones and pagers) requesting that we not leave valuables in the pew when we come to receive Communion. We Catholics are more realistic (pessimistic?) about human nature than the protestants, but the protestants seem to live up to the expectations, at least at church.
Betsy
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taylo223
Guest
After growing up in a protestant church, I have to add that protestants go to church more times weekly than people in the Catholic church and they often spend more time there. I mean it’s very possible for some protestants to go upwards of 4 times a week and spend at least 1 1/2 to 2 hours there at each visit. This leads to much more familarity between parishnors…you usually ending knowing everything about everyone because of this. So I believe that this leads to more trust among the people also. I’m not saying that this is better or that there aren’t Catholics that spend countless hours at the parish also. This is just my personal experience.
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Cairisti
Guest
I grew up in a large Baptist church and I don’t remember seeing coat racks there either. (Or in the Methodist church I used to attend a few years ago). Maybe it’s a northern climate thing?
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Cat
Guest
And I LIKE this! I really really LIKE this kind of friendliness and brotherly love between Christians. I miss it!
Oh, how I love being Catholic and receiving Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament! But honestly, I think that we could learn a few things from the way Protestants do things, and we shouldn’t be so full of ourselves that we disdain or reject things that Protestants do that are good!
After all, when Protestants reject OUR traditions as “too Catholic,” we get upset, with good reason. So why are we doing the same thing about things that are “too Protestant?”
Why on earth would turning up the heat in our churches be “Protestant” or disrespectful or irreverent to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?!! And why is it “too Protestant” to have a “family” atmosphere" in our churches?
THAT’S what my thread is about, brothers and sisters. This isn’t a “gripe” thread or a “pet peeve” thread. I don’t have a “peeve” about coats!
But I have an honest problem with the image of the Catholic Church as “unfriendly” and “cold” and “unwelcoming.”
I think we need to work really hard to turn this bad image around. It is my personal opinion that the BEST way to evangelize Protestants, especially evangelical Protestants, is to invite them to Mass and let them see Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament for themselves. Then they will begin to see how very Biblical the Mass is, and they will recognize the Jesus that they have been praying to all their lives.
But if the Mass seems cold and unfriendly and unwelcoming to them, they will be put off and not come back. And that’s really sad. I want everyone to have the opportunity to receive Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, which means that I want EVERYONE to come home to the Catholic Church.
If turning up the heat will result in people taking off their coats which will create a friendlier atmosphere which will appeal to Protestants and others, then let’s turn up the heat.
I think we need to do ANYTHING other than sinful things that will bring souls into the Church. We shouldn’t mess with the sacred liturgy and Tradition of the Church, but I don’t think there is anything in the GIRM or the Canon Law or the Catechism or the Bible stating that “Catholics must keep a cold church.”
I have read countless posts on this forum, especially in the traditionalists section, stating that Catholics should NOT chat in the sanctuary. Well, folks a coat rack or cloak rooms is a dandy fine place for chatting and socializing. People help each other put their coats on, and help zip up little ones and it’s just a down-home, friendly, comfortable place to greet people, talk about the game, make friends, invite people out to lunch or dinner after Mass, and it WOULDN’T disturb all those faithful who are trying to pray after Mass!!
I can certainly understand why the priests and others with vestments need a cooler temperature to be comfortable and stay healthy. Are any vestments made of lightweight, cooler fabrics? And when I talk about turning up the heat, I’m not saying it needs to be bumped up to 90. I think that 65-68 degrees is fine and those who get chilly at this temp can continue to wear their coats or put on layers or a sweater.
I just don’t want everyone to think this is just a trite issue. I think that how our churches welcome people is a very important issue, and I think that this coat rack thing might just be something worth thinking about. I know that people can be friendly wearing coats. But the fact remains that Catholic Churches have an “image” of unwelcoming atmosphere. I hope that you don’t just shrug and say that Cat needs to get a life and think about important things like abortion and the election. I personally think that saving souls and bringing people home to the Catholic Church IS an important issue.
By the way, in our city, there are many church buildings that are a hundred years old, both Protestant and Catholic. I’m curious about why these old Protestant churches have “clock rooms” (many still have the original sign), while Catholic churches don’t.
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Brenda_V
Guest
Cat - the only reason I can think of is the fact that Catholics never dressed for others, when we dressed up it was for God so if no one else saw what you had under your coat then it didn’t matter. Protestants (at least the ones I know and I will admit it isn’t as many as a former protestant would know
) dressed both for God and for others - if you didn’t wear the right things (or couldn’t afford it) then you were definitely looked down upon. I know I experience this when I used to attend services with my husband at both his parents church and the churches he went to when he was “looking for a church home” (pray for him everyone, we have been married now 29 years and he is so Catholic in most of his thinking it isn’t even funny but he is fighting becoming a Catholic - he finds all the trite old things that he learned as a youth that aren’t true but I can’t seem to convince him otherwise).I had a friend once who was invited by her friends to a protestant church, she was poor and only had school clothes and older play clothes for her boys so she put them in school clothes to go to church. She got pulled aside and told that “in this church the boys wear nice clothes”, she never went back.
Brenda V.
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lak611
Guest
Have you invited your friend and her boys to your church?
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Cathryn
Guest
I live in the Pacific Northwest and at my parish we have a small umbrella bin and coat rack in the vestubule. Most use the umbrella bin, but most also prefer to keep their coats with them.
I sympathize with what I believe to be the general problem. I don’t think taking off our coats will address this problem however. I think the problem is unfriendliness among some Catholics. Catholics will pass each other going into Church without even saying “Hello”, or “Good Morning”. They seem to avoid eye contact going into the Church. Some Catholics seem to believe that the Mass is between them alone and God. Some seem not willing to be warm or welcoming in any way to anyone. I hope this changes some day.
I sympathize with what I believe to be the general problem. I don’t think taking off our coats will address this problem however. I think the problem is unfriendliness among some Catholics. Catholics will pass each other going into Church without even saying “Hello”, or “Good Morning”. They seem to avoid eye contact going into the Church. Some Catholics seem to believe that the Mass is between them alone and God. Some seem not willing to be warm or welcoming in any way to anyone. I hope this changes some day.
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diet_coke
Guest
Just because I leave my coat on doesn’t mean I don’t love and respect God. I sometimes think people worry to much what is happening in the pews and not at the altar
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wifeandmomoftwo
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CarrieH
Guest
How often Protestants attend church depends upon the denomination. Some of the evangelicals spend a lot of time in church, but many of the mainline groups do much less. Being a former Methodist who attended several different Methodist churches over the years, Sunday morning was usually the only service all week at any of the churches I attended. A couple of those churches had Wednesday evening family activities, but usually the Sunday morning service was “it” for the week. Sunday school was before or after service (or in between services at the larger churches), with classes for all ages. I know far many more Catholics who attend daily Mass, Eucharistic Adoration, etc. than I knew Methodists who went to adult Sunday school. But at the Methodist churches, there was a far greater emphasis on the social/community aspects, and I agree that this helped to cut down on the pocket-pickings and purse-stealings. If a stranger wandered in off the street at one of those churches, they would be noticed by the ushers and the old ladies (plus, everyone dressed up back then, so unless the thief was wearing nice clothes, he would surely stand out). It is far easier to dart in and out of a Catholic church where everyone is minding his/her own business than to walk in as a stranger and be greeted by ushers and maybe even recognized from the pulpit when they would welcome all visitors and invite them to coffee hour.
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taylo223
Guest
As you notice. I said that it was in my OWN personal experience. I wasn’t adding that so that someone could come back and argue about it. Also, if you notice where I’m from…the Bible belt, and I can assure that all protestant denominations in my town have faithful parishnors that attend church multiple times a week. Yes, including the Methodist church.
I was just adding about my experience in a protestant church. I wasn’t attacking anything about the RCC, as I am in the process of converting. But seeing as my entire family and entire community are protestant I can write about what I have noticed while in these communities. And I can say that I know many more people that are protestant and attend church much more than any Catholic counterparts I know.
I’m sorry and apologize if I sound defensive but I don’t understand why everyone on these boards choses to bicker back and forth. And argue about who knows best.
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Brenda_V
Guest
yes. She is a fallen away Catholic and because she was living with a man at the time felt it inappropriate to attend Mass
. I could not convince her otherwise. She is no longer in my life as she broke up with this man and moved in with another so she wasn’t close to me physically (she used to live across the street) and when she moved she didn’t give me her new phone number or address! Pray for her too (Monica)!Brenda V.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Our parish church has seats for 1100 people.
A coat rack would be a massive undertaking.
In addition, our Masses tend to be tightly scheduled. Our parishes are large and we need a lot of Sunday Masses to accommodate everyone. We already have a major traffic congestion problem with respect to the parking lots. If a thousand people were in the vestibule of the church building fussing with coats and hats and gloves all at the same time while another thousand were trying to get in and hang up their coats and hats and gloves, it would be traffic chaos.
The issue of not being able to find your seat upon returning from receiving Holy Communion is a real one; when you find your coat, then you know where you are!
A coat rack would be a massive undertaking.
In addition, our Masses tend to be tightly scheduled. Our parishes are large and we need a lot of Sunday Masses to accommodate everyone. We already have a major traffic congestion problem with respect to the parking lots. If a thousand people were in the vestibule of the church building fussing with coats and hats and gloves all at the same time while another thousand were trying to get in and hang up their coats and hats and gloves, it would be traffic chaos.
The issue of not being able to find your seat upon returning from receiving Holy Communion is a real one; when you find your coat, then you know where you are!
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Reminds me of the joke about how several churches tried to get rid of church mice that were chewing up all the wiring and the pipes for the organ.
They tried everything to no avail.
Finally, the Catholics baptized the mice and they were never seen in church again.
They tried everything to no avail.
Finally, the Catholics baptized the mice and they were never seen in church again.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
I take my coat with me to the pew.
We have 2 cloak rooms; a smaller one and a larger one. When the church was renovated these were included on the design to encourage parishoners to remove their wraps for more comfort and room in the pews. There was also the idea of fostering community, instead an “eat and run” attitude.
It is my dream, however, to repurpose the larger room for an adoration chapel. We have a chapel now but if the cloak room was used we could add a restroom and access to the outside so we could have perpetual adoration.
If you build it, they will come.
We have 2 cloak rooms; a smaller one and a larger one. When the church was renovated these were included on the design to encourage parishoners to remove their wraps for more comfort and room in the pews. There was also the idea of fostering community, instead an “eat and run” attitude.
It is my dream, however, to repurpose the larger room for an adoration chapel. We have a chapel now but if the cloak room was used we could add a restroom and access to the outside so we could have perpetual adoration.
If you build it, they will come.
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Digitonomy
Guest
If this were more than an occasional and trivial inconvenience, there would be chaos in summer when nobody wears a coat.
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