Why no coat racks in Catholic churches?

[Tietjen]

This is such a non-issue to me.
Leave your coat on, if you want. If not, lay it on the pew next to you. That has worked for me for over forty years.
I think that there are more important issues going on in the Church than the evils of a coat-rack-deprived parish. If that’s your biggest peeve with the Church, then you’re pretty fortunate, I’d say.
Coat-rack, indeed . . .

Thank you… finally a voice of reason

 

[Sarabande]

.

Some of you say it is too expensive to turn up heat in a church building and that the money should be used for others. Do you also leave the heat off in YOUR homes, and then give the money that you would have paid the gas or electric company to the Church? Why don’t you stop eating any food other than what is necessary to sustain life, and give all THAT money to the Church? Or give away all your possessions except what is necessary for life, and give all THAT money to the Church? Sorry, I don’t buy that argument. It is not extravagent spending to help people stay warm and comfortable at Mass.

Not extravagent spending? Do you know it can sometimes costs thousands of dollars a month just to heat/cool a church or cathedral? That’s not including the cost of lighting and other things. And when you have a very small parish with a very large church - a parish that isn’t wealthy and is already giving what they can, it still won’t cover the costs. We are having this problem in our 600 household parish cathedral. Most aren’t large income people. They’ve been making appeals to help with lighting/cooling and heating. They’ve had some success, but not a huge amount. Our parish is doing everything to stay afloat.

And actually, many people do most of the what you mentioned so that they can just stay afloat and survive, let alone be able give money to their parish.

As for those of you who say that warmth isn’t necessary for friendliness–well, OK. But why can’t you have both?

Because in the whole grand scheme of things, having a warm place just isn’t necessary for the warmth of friendliness. If this was the absolute reason why churches aren’t friendly, then yes, by all means, build the coat rack or coat room and we’ll suddenly see a change. But that isn’t the case. If a parish’s money which could go towards building racks or coat rooms can go towards more meaningful needs in the parish and towards other charitable actions, I’d rather that money go to those things. And Catholics, at least all the Catholics I’ve ever known and grew up with, feel this way. It’s one of the reasons we are one of the largest charities, if not the largest charity, in the world.

Why are you so concerned about this rather than other more serious problems that could be occurring in parishes? I’m not trying to be mean… but this is just so minute of a problem. If you are very concerned about this, perhaps you can donate money to your parish for a coat rack or coat room. Or approach the pastor, ask him about trying to set a savings account up for a coat room or coat rack. Maybe he’ll go for it, maybe he won’t, but at least you tried.

If you are truly concerned about the friendliness of parishes, perhaps you can start your own after mass social function at the church and get involved with that. There are parishes that do that. I know you already dedicate time to the music program at your church, but this seems to be a very important subject to you. So, get out there, get some of your fellow parishioners together and do something about it.

 

[jssaxon]

Yeah cat, quit complaining! You heard the lady!!!

 

[Sarabande]

Yeah cat, quit complaining! You heard the lady!!!

I’m not telling her to quit complaining. She can vent all she wants. We all make our vents on here at one time or another. If I wanted her to “quit complaining”, I’d have just told her straight out.

I just made recommendations as to how she could help her parish if she was so concerned about the lack of a coat rack or the lack of friendliness in her parish. Many people aren’t concerned about the lack of a coat rack to help in some sort of community atmosphere for after mass. They don’t believe it is integral to the friendly warmth of a parish. But she is, so she can do something about it. My parish does an after mass coffee and donut social. She could perhaps start something like that as well with other parishioners at her parish. Or like I mentioned before, donate money towards a coat rack or room.

 

[jssaxon]

You said, and I quote "Why are you so concerned about this rather than other more serious problems that could be occurring in parishes?"

You don’t sound too sympathetic, but rather disregarding of your sister’s very valid point that she brought up, as a new member of your denomination. You brushed off her complaint as being inconsequential.

 

[Sarabande]

You said, and I quote "Why are you so concerned about this rather than other more serious problems that could be occurring in parishes?"

You don’t sound too sympathetic, but rather disregarding of your sister’s very valid point that she brought up, as a new member of your denomination. You brushed off her complaint as being inconsequential.

If that is how it was taken, my apologies for it. My intent wasn’t to be insensitive, that’s why I also mentioned that I wasn’t trying to sound mean. I try to be sensitive when I write, but I’m not perfect and don’t always succeed. I also have my opinion as she has hers. It’s a valid concern, yes, but in my opinion, it isn’t as serious as other things that could be occurring. I have valid concerns too, and have brought them up on this forum, but have been brought to realize and do know that it isn’t as important as other issues, even if I’m passionate about it. I also suggested ways for her to help her concerns and that can be done. So I wasn’t telling her to just deal with it. I was suggesting how she could make it happen.

I’m also just sincerely curious as to why she is so concerned about it. I know that she and I have been on the same page as people complaining and judging others whose cell phones and beepers go off during mass, babies crying and other things like that because it is ridiculous when you’re on the forums long enough to see some of the really little things that people nit-pick about - things that people really shouldn’t be judging others over. So, I just don’t understand this.

 

[Phemie]

But if the explanation for Catholics leaving their coats on is that their church buildings are too cold, then I firmly believe that we need to take a serious look at turning up the heat. I honestly think it would add to the friendly and warm atmosphere of the church if people took their coats off in church! If people are sitting there shivering, no WONDER they stay away from Mass!

If turning up the heat in our Catholic church buildings will help people to be more faithful in attending Mass, then I say, “Turn up the heat.”

I don’t think anyone stays away from church because of the cold, after all we can keep our coats on.

Since I write the cheques to pay for heat in my parish I know that often just heating is 1/4 of what we take in over a month’s collection. That still leaves us with expenses for salaries (pastor’s, cook’s, mine), electricity, water & sewage, snow removal, liturgical supplies, cleaning, food, insurance, gas for the car, etc. Skimping on heat when the church is only used for a total of 6 hours per week seems like an ecological thing to do.

 

[Tietjen]

But if the explanation for Catholics leaving their coats on is that their church buildings are too cold, then I firmly believe that we need to take a serious look at turning up the heat. I honestly think it would add to the friendly and warm atmosphere of the church if people took their coats off in church! If people are sitting there shivering, no WONDER they stay away from Mass! And no wonder they go to the Protestant megachurches where they can not only be warm while listening to the sermon, but they can even sip lattes and enjoy a croissant with their friends before, after, and in some megachurches, DURING the worship service. Duh!

If turning up the heat in our Catholic church buildings will help people to be more faithful in attending Mass, then I say, “Turn up the heat.”

I’m sorry that you find your parish cold and you also seem to be implying “less friendly/social than Protestant Churches.” However, whether you wish to accept the simple fact that heating large Churches does cost MUCH money (despite the fact that many Protestants believe the Church is full of rich people) it is a very valid point. The fact is that the sanctuary is NOT supposed to be a social club. Just as I would not expect a Mass would be said at a social event, neither do I like seeing so many “former Protestants” and Catholics entering the sanctuary talking and socializing as though they were at a dinner party. WE are supposed to be praying and reflecting on the sanctity of what is about to take place; NOT worrying about our coats or catching up with friends about the weeks past events. Yes, Protestant Church may be “warmer” both in temperature and in social courtesies, but then again those attending Mass should not be worried about such things. If sipping lattes and eating croissants with friends is what you miss, then I say that most communities have a Starbucks somewhere close by and maybe you should meet there AFTER Mass. Does Starbucks have coat racks?

jssaxon:

Those aren’t assumptions, that is my experience. Catholic Churches are cold and unfriendly especially the more traditional ones. Those are the worst. More relaxed ones that emphasize community are much better.

I think sir or madam, you are confusing “cold and unfriendly” with reverent and solemn. Again, this is not social hour, IT’S MASS! Socialize outside of the sanctuary. Many Catholic Churches offer coffee and doughnuts in another area of the Church AFTER one or more of the Masses. Most people understand why that is. I’m sorry if we don’t live up to your expectations of being wrapped around the society’s norms.

jssaxon:

Catholic coffee hours usually have cheap donuts, not the elaborate homebaked goodies such as Protestants like to make.

I cannot even dignify that comment with a response. Suffice it to say that perhaps you are being called to worship in a bakery.

NOTE TO ALL: I apologize for what must appear to be my uncharitable reply to this ridiculous thread. I’ve said my peace and I won’t further interrupt those of you who wish to continue claiming how uncomfortable or impersonal the Catholic Church is. It rather ticks me off when I see such complaining. I suppose I am one of those “NeoCon Catholics” who believe there are Church picnics, dinners, KofC meetings, Legion of Mary, Room in the Inn, Crossroads, CYO, Theology of the Body, doughnuts & coffee after Mass, etc where socializing can and does have a place. When I come to Mass, I want to be with my Lord so don’t take offense if I don’t care what the temperature is or if I don’t carry on a conversation with you at the expense of my reflecting on the holiness of our Lords presence in the tabernacle.

 

[Indyann]

I’m sorry that you find your parish cold and you also seem to be implying “less friendly/social than Protestant Churches.” However, whether you wish to accept the simple fact that heating large Churches does cost MUCH money (despite the fact that many Protestants believe the Church is full of rich people) it is a very valid point. The fact is that the sanctuary is NOT supposed to be a social club. Just as I would not expect a Mass would be said at a social event, neither do I like seeing so many “former Protestants” and Catholics entering the sanctuary talking and socializing as though they were at a dinner party. WE are supposed to be praying and reflecting on the sanctity of what is about to take place; NOT worrying about our coats or catching up with friends about the weeks past events. Yes, Protestant Church may be “warmer” both in temperature and in social courtesies, but then again those attending Mass should not be worried about such things. If sipping lattes and eating croissants with friends is what you miss, then I say that most communities have a Starbucks somewhere close by and maybe you should meet there AFTER Mass. Does Starbucks have coat racks?

I think sir or madam, you are confusing “cold and unfriendly” with reverent and solemn. Again, this is not social hour, IT’S MASS! Socialize outside of the sanctuary. Many Catholic Churches offer coffee and doughnuts in another area of the Church AFTER one or more of the Masses. Most people understand why that is. I’m sorry if we don’t live up to your expectations of being wrapped around the society’s norms.

I cannot even dignify that comment with a response. Suffice it to say that perhaps you are being called to worship in a bakery.

NOTE TO ALL: I apologize for what must appear to be my uncharitable reply to this ridiculous thread. I’ve said my peace and I won’t further interrupt those of you who wish to continue claiming how uncomfortable or impersonal the Catholic Church is. It rather ticks me off when I see such complaining. I suppose I am one of those “NeoCon Catholics” who believe there are Church picnics, dinners, KofC meetings, Legion of Mary, Room in the Inn, Crossroads, CYO, Theology of the Body, doughnuts & coffee after Mass, etc where socializing can and does have a place. When I come to Mass, I want to be with my Lord so don’t take offense if I don’t care what the temperature is or if I don’t carry on a conversation with you at the expense of my reflecting on the holiness of our Lords presence in the tabernacle.

Thank you. My feelings precisely.

Never thought I would see the day when Catholics are “rude” because they leave their coats on in church. Some people “just don’t get it!”

 

[oremus]

Catholic Churches are unfriendly and people almost always make a beeline to their cars, having fulfilled their obligation, on pain of mortal sin. Protestants believe fellowship is an intregal part of being in a Christian community, they like to have extremely fine coffee hours to socialize. Catholic coffee hours usually have cheap donuts, not the elaborate homebaked goodies such as Protestants like to make.So, keeping a coat on is a psychological statement. It’s like when a person goes by to visit and leaves his coat on because he doesn’t plan to stay long.

It’s an interesting point the OP brought up, one I never thought of!

So the Prots have to comfort themselves with homemade cookies after their service.

Maybe they wouldn’t need so much comforting if they received Our Lord in the Eucharist.

Outrageous statement? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Ditto. And double ditto.

Well said. Well written.

We go to Mass … to the church building … to perform an act of Worship of our Infinite God … of Worship of our Divine Lord.

That’s one of the reasons that the centerpiece is the Bloody Corpus on the cross.

The Mass is serious stuff … not a “meet and greet”.

I’m sorry to be contentious, but the Mass is not fellowship … it is Worship of God who for some unfathomable reason decided one day to “give up” some measure of His Infinity and take on extremely finite human form … but … and yet … at the same time retain His Infinity.

It should be awesome.

Just contemplating the Incarnation … should be awesome.

In fact, it goes beyond awesome … contemplating the Incarnation … not some cute figure in a manger … but the crushingly awesome realization of Who that really is in the manger. Not merely some baby, but God, the Son of God, the Infinite. Here on a mission to deliver us to Heaven … to allow us to share in some tiny way in His Infinity.

It’s kind of mind-blowing that God in the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity decided to make Himself accessible to us.

So God condescended to become human in a special way … and then to top it off … to become a human sacrifice … And the whole of the Old Testament leads up to that terrible wonderful event.

Makes me wonder sometimes … when He was accused of eating and drinking with sinners … they must have known … some of them … who He really was. He was more than just a good listener.

On numerous occasions, when I have made a visit to church off hours, I have felt a presence … the presence of another Person … other people (even non-Catholics have “felt” the same thing.

It’s awesome.

The Catholic church building is so much more than just a place to meet.

I’m sorry that you find your parish cold and you also seem to be implying “less friendly/social than Protestant Churches.” However, whether you wish to accept the simple fact that heating large Churches does cost MUCH money (despite the fact that many Protestants believe the Church is full of rich people) it is a very valid point. The fact is that the sanctuary is NOT supposed to be a social club. Just as I would not expect a Mass would be said at a social event, neither do I like seeing so many “former Protestants” and Catholics entering the sanctuary talking and socializing as though they were at a dinner party. WE are supposed to be praying and reflecting on the sanctity of what is about to take place; NOT worrying about our coats or catching up with friends about the weeks past events. Yes, Protestant Church may be “warmer” both in temperature and in social courtesies, but then again those attending Mass should not be worried about such things. If sipping lattes and eating croissants with friends is what you miss, then I say that most communities have a Starbucks somewhere close by and maybe you should meet there AFTER Mass. Does Starbucks have coat racks?

I think sir or madam, you are confusing “cold and unfriendly” with reverent and solemn. Again, this is not social hour, IT’S MASS! Socialize outside of the sanctuary. Many Catholic Churches offer coffee and doughnuts in another area of the Church AFTER one or more of the Masses. Most people understand why that is. I’m sorry if we don’t live up to your expectations of being wrapped around the society’s norms.

I cannot even dignify that comment with a response. Suffice it to say that perhaps you are being called to worship in a bakery.

NOTE TO ALL: I apologize for what must appear to be my uncharitable reply to this ridiculous thread. I’ve said my peace and I won’t further interrupt those of you who wish to continue claiming how uncomfortable or impersonal the Catholic Church is. It rather ticks me off when I see such complaining. I suppose I am one of those “NeoCon Catholics” who believe there are Church picnics, dinners, KofC meetings, Legion of Mary, Room in the Inn, Crossroads, CYO, Theology of the Body, doughnuts & coffee after Mass, etc where socializing can and does have a place. When I come to Mass, I want to be with my Lord so don’t take offense if I don’t care what the temperature is or if I don’t carry on a conversation with you at the expense of my reflecting on the holiness of our Lords presence in the tabernacle.

 

[pprimeau1976]

I don’t know. Maybe it’s because coat racks take up alot of room and would only be used half of the year at the most. Coat racks would be fine but absolutely NO WIRE HANGERS EVER!!!

But what do coat racks have to do with the liturgy?

 

[chewchoo]

does it really matter???
i go to a big, old, cold church, sometimes even having my coat on i’m still cold.
i don’t think its a trust thing either, women leave their purses in the pew when they go up for communion. that is huge trust.

 

[Cathryn]

The Holy Father’s new encyclical is available online at the Vatican website, Saved in Hope: Spe Salvi. He has a lot to say about God and me individualism and our salvation.

I think some Catholics have become too cold and unloving at Mass. I think that is what brought this thread about. I don’t give a hoot about taking off our coats, but I think Catholics should be aware not only of the real presence of Jesus Christ, our Lord and our God, at Mass but the presence of our brothers and sisters in Christ who are uniting our hearts and minds and souls together with Christ in His sacrifice to the Father. Both our Salvation, and the Sacrifice of the Mass isn’t about just me and God.

I hope you read the Holy Father’s encyclical and he addresses this problem much better than me.

 

[BradW]

Ok, I got it! (I haven’t read all the replies yet, maybe someone else beat me to it…)

It’s an Apostolic Tradition, and therefore must be preserved. Ever since Paul held someone else’s coat while they stoned Stephen, Paul made sure that wasn’t going to happen again! (Acts 7:58)

 

[Cathryn]

Ok, I got it! (I haven’t read all the replies yet, maybe someone else beat me to it…)

It’s an Apostolic Tradition, and therefore must be preserved. Ever since Paul held someone else’s coat while they stoned Stephen, Paul made sure that wasn’t going to happen again! (Acts 7:58)

I believe you are very close. If you look at the Vatican’s paintings of the Last Supper, Jesus and the twelve apostles never take off their cloaks. This tradition has been handed down by the faithful for over two thousand years.

 

[BradW]

people generally wear their coats when shopping in stores/malls and they can be there for several hours…and i have yet to see a coat rack at the mall.

I’ve seen them, or more accurately coat checks or lockers. Even 30 years ago I saw them in malls.

 

[BradW]

Wow, interesting replies.

My person experiences, as a convert from some 40 years in evangelical churches:

In all that time of hanging my coat, I had someone else take it by mistake exactly once. And the coats were so similar in style and size, that it took me a few minutes to realize that I had the wrong coat, too. Now, I make sure not to hang my coat near a similar-looking one.

I’ve visited probably more than a dozen different Catholic churches, sometimes old and poor ones, in my various travels. I have yet to find one that is so cold that I had to keep a coat on. Sweater, yes, but I frequently do that at home in my 68-degree drafty house, too. Not to say that some need more coat than that, but nearly everybody? That’s the part the puzzles me.

The fact that a church built in 1950 didn’t have provision for hanging coats indicates to me that it isn’t a matter of not having central heat – they had it in the 50’s – or how expensive heat is – I’m pretty sure it was comparitively cheaper then, back when we could pollute the air to our heart’s content and there was oil aplenty – but it is just something in the general mindset that says “Catholics don’t do coatracks. Never have, never will.” I think that’s all that Cat (and me!) is trying to understand.

As for the space requirements, the way it was done in the Protestant churches I went to was that every hall was lined with coat racks on at least one side. So fairly little “wasted space”, and plenty of room for people to spread out and not bottleneck in a separate cloak room with one way in and out. Of course, this was mainly made possible by a building design that did have lots of Sunday School rooms and staff offices in a ring surrounding the main auditorium. While most Catholic churches have very little in them besides the nave and narthex (did I get those terms corrrect)? (For that matter, I’m still surprised at how hard it can be to find and get to even a restroom in some churches!)

But y’know, for all the talk about how Catholics need to learn their faith better, maybe a few well-used Sunday School rooms wouldn’t be a bad idea!

 

[Cathryn]

Originally Posted by February
people generally wear their coats when shopping in stores/malls and they can be there for several hours…and i have yet to see a coat rack at the mall.

I’ve seen them, or more accurately coat checks or lockers. Even 30 years ago I saw them in malls.

Yes, but that was probably for the Protestant shoppers.

 

[Cathryn]

Wow, interesting replies.

(For that matter, I’m still surprised at how hard it can be to find and get to even a restroom in some churches!)

That could be a whole other thread. Catholics don’t use Church restrooms.