Why no coat racks in Catholic churches?

[Sarabande]

The Holy Father’s new encyclical is available online at the Vatican website, Saved in Hope: Spe Salvi. He has a lot to say about God and me individualism and our salvation.

I think some Catholics have become too cold and unloving at Mass. I think that is what brought this thread about. I don’t give a hoot about taking off our coats, but I think Catholics should be aware not only of the real presence of Jesus Christ, our Lord and our God, at Mass but the presence of our brothers and sisters in Christ who are uniting our hearts and minds and souls together with Christ in His sacrifice to the Father. Both our Salvation, and the Sacrifice of the Mass isn’t about just me and God.

I hope you read the Holy Father’s encyclical and he addresses this problem much better than me.

Thanks for the info. I look forward to reading it.

So, if the thread really is about how to make Catholics less cold and more loving, I guess we should be discussing that rather than it being the Protestant vs. Catholic coat rack dilemma.

I truly think it all depends on the parish - whether Catholic or Protestant. I’ve been to Catholic parishes where there is practically nothing going on before or after mass. I’ve also experienced that with Protestant services I’ve been to as a musician. To me, it doesn’t bother me. I’m an introvert. Almost my entire immediate family is introverted, so we’re not big on being around too many people for long periods of time. BTW - I come from a family filled with Protestants, Catholics, Jews and Born-Again Fundamentalists. I’m familiar with the differences in faith and worship and the cultural nuances behind them.

I’ve also been involved in parishes or attended parishes that are really involved* after * mass. Announcements will be made to invite congregants and parishioners to certain events and after mass activities. Or they will have smiling, friendly greeters prior to mass and well-wishers after mass. During mass, my focus is on the mass. I’m aware of the people around me and will smile, nod my head or greet someone before or after mass. I’m a cantor, so I feel I should be welcoming as I represent the music program there. But during mass, it’s God first, as I believe it is with almost everyone else there.

It’s true, Catholics across the line may not be so kissy-huggy and focused on community fellowship. I see some benefit to it, but it’s something that I personally do not need for spiritual or social fulfillment. Some people do need that and I would suspect more so Protestant converts to the faith would expect it or miss it more, which is understandable. If that is the case, then people who really need that part of social interaction should really take action and provide something for after mass. There are a lot of societies, as someone on here mentioned in a previous thread, that can be promoted and started in individual parishes.

Another thing I have to mention is that there is a TLM parish that I’ve attended a few times, which is small and is actually much more close as a community after mass than many of the regular parishes. They have a lot of social interaction after mass and are very welcoming. I’ve always felt at home there. The people are very open and will approach you when they see you are not a regular there. Perhaps it’s because it’s a small parish community where everyone knows each other. It’s like that in my little farming community country parish that I spent half my childhood in. So the lack of friendliness or warmth has nothing to do with how traditional a parish is.

 

[Sarabande]

That could be a whole other thread. Catholics don’t use Church restrooms.

Ha! Ha! Although, I’ve never had a problem finding a restroom. For older churches, I’ve developed a knack of finding little corners that look like they used to be closets. Newer churches, they are almost always built in the back in the vestibules. I’ve done so many weddings and funerals at various Catholic churches in my tri-state area, and with sometimes the long travel and drinking gallons of water, I always have my bathroom sensors out and figure out where to look.

 

[homewardbound]

I like keeping my coat with me because even if I take it off, I usually get cold during Mass and put it back on.

I don’t get what the big deal is. We’re there to worship God, do it however you’re comfortable! I have my coat on, yes, but I am never in a hurry to leave church. Of course I am just weird, I’ve never wanted to leave God’s presence.

If you want to be hugged like crazy and be at a social gathering every week, go to a non-Catholic church.

If you want to spend time with God and praise Him and be fed by the Holy Spirit and partake in the Mass and gifts that God gave us when Jesus established His Church, and sure maybe not everyone will want to talk to you or hang their coats up cause they are busy worshiping God or its chilly in the church, then go to Mass.

The coldest church I’ve ever been to(spiritually) was not Catholic. I forget what it was, but it was so cold there it was almost evil I swear. I sermon was on how the pastor’s windshield had broken on the way there.

I have never felt like a Catholic Church is cold. Why would I want to be mauled by people I don’t even know? When going to Mass, I go there to find God and spend time with Him. And I am never disappointed. He is always there waiting for me. A Catholic Church can never be cold, spiritually, if one is going for the right reason: to worship God with their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Social gatherings are not for Mass. I don’t care what everyone else to wearing or not wearing, if the coats on on the pew or on a coat hanger…the important thing is we are all there to glorify God.

 

[ROBIN97]

The Baptist church I was raised in before I got saved and left it didn’t have coat racks.

In every major Protestant church I have ever been in, coat hooks were strung down both walls to the side of the pews…Where Catholics hang Stations of the Cross.

 

[Cat]

First, to the person who said that it is abusive to have our tabernacle outside of the sanctuary–we have our tabernacle at the front in our sanctuary. We also have Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament exposed in the monstrance in our 24/7 Adoration Chapel which is in a separate building–a little miniature chapel that has six pews with kneelers.

I’m really upset that so many of you think this is ridiculous.

Your parishes are probably spending yayhoo dollars on evangelization to attract people to your churches, and I’m suggesting that you just put in a coat rack and you may find that people will perceive your church as friendlier. Maybe not, but isn’t it worth a try to save souls and bring people home?

Maybe the reason why I think it’s serious is that I have friends and relatives who are NOT Catholic that I would like to see become Catholic. I am truly concerned about their souls.

Yes, yes, everyone, I KNOW that Mass is not a social gathering, but it is COMMUNITY.

And as I’ve said in another post, a cloak room or coat rack is the perfect place for “socializing” away from the sanctuary.

Yes, I KNOW that Catholics socialize outside of Mass. I’m not talking about socializing during Mass, or anywhere near Mass. I’m talking about hanging up my coat if I wish to do so.

Yes, I am in the process of reading our Holy Father’s latest encyclical (we are doing it for our Advent devotional).

Yes, I KNOW that Mass isn’t all about my personal comfort.

Yes, of course I know that I shouldn’t pine for latte and croissants during Mass because I have the Bread of Angels.

Yes, of course I know that heating a great big church costs a fortune. I have said several times that I am not advocating pushing up the heat–most of the time, it is plenty warm enough for the average person.

Yes, I know that Catholics do a lot of charitable work. So do Protestants. Don’t ever accuse Protestant Christians of being stingy about charitable work.

Yes, I know that abortion is a much more important issue. There are plenty of threads about abortion on this Board. This is a thread about hospitality, which, when you think about it, is one reason why women abort–they don’t feel that their baby will be “welcomed” into this world.

Yes, I know that there are other countries in the world beside the United States. But I’m talking about the U.S. here, my home.

Yes, I KNOW that the Holy Spirit is the one who woos a person to become Catholic. But why must we make the Holy Spirit’s job harder? The Bible says that we shouldn’t quench the Holy Spirit!

St. Paul said that to win people to Christ, he would become all things to all people.

So why are you so resistant to providing a place to hang a coat? It’s such a little simple thing, like putting a mint on a pillow. But it’s so kind and welcoming and cozy and family and hospitable and friendly. Why are you determined to continue doing things the way you’ve always done them?

I guess it’s just a convert thing. I’ve received some PMs from ex-Protestants who agree with me and are just as frustrated by the lack of understanding and comprehension on this thread as I am.

So let me ask you a favor–would you just accept the fact that many Protestants have a totally different perspective than you when it comes to coats in church? And our perspective is not evil or irreverent or self-centered.

We would sit on ice blocks in our swim suits to receive our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. We’re Catholic now, and we understand.

But many of us converts think it’s weird that you leave your coats on when the temperature is comfortable in the sanctuary. We think it looks unfriendly. We also sing really loud during Mass and we actually open the Missal to the Bible readings. So maybe we’re the weird ones, not you.

So here’s another favor that I would like to ask–would you consider listening to us instead of accusing us of whining, complaining, worldliness, selfishness, gluttony, irreverence, ridiculousness, trivial mindset, etc. etc.?

You might just learn a simple little secret that possibly might help reach out to Protestants and ex-Catholics and bring them home to the Catholic Church. I know there are deeper issues, but this is a simple place to start–being hospitable and offering a place for someone to hang up their coat.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

First, to the person who said that it is abusive to have our tabernacle outside of the sanctuary–we have our tabernacle at the front in our sanctuary. We also have Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament exposed in the monstrance in our 24/7 Adoration Chapel which is in a separate building–a little miniature chapel that has six pews with kneelers.

I’m really upset that so many of you think this is ridiculous.

Your parishes are probably spending yayhoo dollars on evangelization to attract people to your churches, and I’m suggesting that you just put in a coat rack and you may find that people will perceive your church as friendlier. Maybe not, but isn’t it worth a try to save souls and bring people home?

Maybe the reason why I think it’s serious is that I have friends and relatives who are NOT Catholic that I would like to see become Catholic. I am truly concerned about their souls.

Yes, yes, everyone, I KNOW that Mass is not a social gathering, but it is COMMUNITY.

And as I’ve said in another post, a cloak room or coat rack is the perfect place for “socializing” away from the sanctuary.

Yes, I KNOW that Catholics socialize outside of Mass. I’m not talking about socializing during Mass, or anywhere near Mass. I’m talking about hanging up my coat if I wish to do so.

Yes, I am in the process of reading our Holy Father’s latest encyclical (we are doing it for our Advent devotional).

Yes, I KNOW that Mass isn’t all about my personal comfort.

Yes, of course I know that I shouldn’t pine for latte and croissants during Mass because I have the Bread of Angels.

Yes, of course I know that heating a great big church costs a fortune. I have said several times that I am not advocating pushing up the heat–most of the time, it is plenty warm enough for the average person.

Yes, I know that Catholics do a lot of charitable work. So do Protestants. Don’t ever accuse Protestant Christians of being stingy about charitable work.

Yes, I know that abortion is a much more important issue. There are plenty of threads about abortion on this Board. This is a thread about hospitality, which, when you think about it, is one reason why women abort–they don’t feel that their baby will be “welcomed” into this world.

Yes, I know that there are other countries in the world beside the United States. But I’m talking about the U.S. here, my home.

Yes, I KNOW that the Holy Spirit is the one who woos a person to become Catholic. But why must we make the Holy Spirit’s job harder? The Bible says that we shouldn’t quench the Holy Spirit!

St. Paul said that to win people to Christ, he would become all things to all people.

So why are you so resistant to providing a place to hang a coat? It’s such a little simple thing, like putting a mint on a pillow. But it’s so kind and welcoming and cozy and family and hospitable and friendly. Why are you determined to continue doing things the way you’ve always done them?

I guess it’s just a convert thing. I’ve received some PMs from ex-Protestants who agree with me and are just as frustrated by the lack of understanding and comprehension on this thread as I am.

So let me ask you a favor–would you just accept the fact that many Protestants have a totally different perspective than you when it comes to coats in church? And our perspective is not evil or irreverent or self-centered.

We would sit on ice blocks in our swim suits to receive our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. We’re Catholic now, and we understand.

But many of us converts think it’s weird that you leave your coats on when the temperature is comfortable in the sanctuary. We think it looks unfriendly. We also sing really loud during Mass and we actually open the Missal to the Bible readings. So maybe we’re the weird ones, not you.

So here’s another favor that I would like to ask–would you consider listening to us instead of accusing us of whining, complaining, worldliness, selfishness, gluttony, irreverence, ridiculousness, trivial mindset, etc. etc.?

You might just learn a simple little secret that possibly might help reach out to Protestants and ex-Catholics and bring them home to the Catholic Church. I know there are deeper issues, but this is a simple place to start–being hospitable and offering a place for someone to hang up their coat.

Cat,

May I ask, what do you do to make non-catholics feel welcome in your parish?
Will a coat room/rack whatever really make people feel welcome?
Have you actually talked to your priest to express how “unwelcome” and “cold” the parish is?

 

[CarrieH]

That could be a whole other thread. Catholics don’t use Church restrooms.

Huh??? The church restrooms in all but one of the Catholic churches I have visited were “single-seaters,” they aren’t the multi-stall types one finds in a theater or shopping mall. So we don’t congregate there before Mass to chat as we powder our noses. But when you gotta go, you gotta go, and there had better be someplace to do it!

 

[homewardbound]

You might just learn a simple little secret that possibly might help reach out to Protestants and ex-Catholics and bring them home to the Catholic Church. I know there are deeper issues, but this is a simple place to start–being hospitable and offering a place for someone to hang up their coat.

I definitely understand this. Though, in my years as a Protestant the coat rack was never a place for social gathering, I can definitely see how it could be in some places.

I have seen Catholic Churches with coat racks at the entrance, so they do exist. I just never saw them as anything but a place to hang my coat, which I never have done as a Protestant or Catholic since I tend to get cold easily.

I think it is a good idea to address this to your priest and others in your area to see what could be done. I agree that feeling welcome is important, especially for converts and non-Catholics, as we are used to very warm welcomes. It is something the Church should work on to try to bring more to Mass.

God Bless

 

[Sarabande]

Maybe the reason why I think it’s serious is that I have friends and relatives who are NOT Catholic that I would like to see become Catholic. I am truly concerned about their souls.

:Edited for space:

But many of us converts think it’s weird that you leave your coats on when the temperature is comfortable in the sanctuary. We think it looks unfriendly. We also sing really loud during Mass and we actually open the Missal to the Bible readings. So maybe we’re the weird ones, not you.

So here’s another favor that I would like to ask–would you consider listening to us instead of accusing us of whining, complaining, worldliness, selfishness, gluttony, irreverence, ridiculousness, trivial mindset, etc. etc.?

You might just learn a simple little secret that possibly might help reach out to Protestants and ex-Catholics and bring them home to the Catholic Church. I know there are deeper issues, but this is a simple place to start–being hospitable and offering a place for someone to hang up their coat.

Thank you for explaining yourself more about your position on this. I understand more from where you are coming from as originally it just sounded another judgemental fest like about the cell phones and crying babies threads. I do understand why ex-Protestants would feel this way. Like I said, I have a family full of Protestants and like I said, you can vent your concerns. There is nothing wrong with that.

But in the long run, in order for you to see some sort of change you may need to do it on your own at your parish and see how it works. Donate the money, gather people who can help you make it more hospitable. There are hospitable parishes all over the place - perhaps not where you have been, but I’ve been to them. Go to your pastor and speak with him about it. Speak to people who belong to the parishes that you yearning for to get some help to make it happen. You and other new converts will need to get the ball rolling because most cradle Catholics won’t notice that you’re concerned about and won’t see it as a concern until there is proof that it will work. As my mother always says, in order to change the system you have to be in the system. She means this more about politics or other organizations, but as long as it is something that doesn’t hurt the church or change the beliefs and practices of the Church it should be ok. It doesn’t help to keep voicing your concerns without action. If no action is being done after voicing your concerns, you have to do something about it yourself. That’s why I’m involved in the music programs and why I know you are involved in your music program. The same can be done for this.

I still don’t think it’s as important as other actions to make things friendlier and warm, but I believe if you really think it is crucial, then it’s important go out and talk to the pastor.

 

[rpp]

Actually, the practice of keeping coats on during Mass is an old tradition that dates back to the early days of the Church.

You see, sometimes Roman soldiers would interrupt the Mass and try to arrest people. Those who stopped to get their coats off the coat rack were almost always caught and fed to the lions. Those lucky few who did not find room on the coat rack and kept their coats with them were able to escape and propagate the faith. And the ones who did not even take their coats off got away even more quickly!

Thus a tradition was born. One that we see carried on until modern times! The Catholic Church is so rich in history!

 

[Phemie]

Ha! Ha! Although, I’ve never had a problem finding a restroom. For older churches, I’ve developed a knack of finding little corners that look like they used to be closets. Newer churches, they are almost always built in the back in the vestibules. I’ve done so many weddings and funerals at various Catholic churches in my tri-state area, and with sometimes the long travel and drinking gallons of water, I always have my bathroom sensors out and figure out where to look.

My hometown parish church, built in the 1920s, didn’t have a bathroom until the 70s and people thought it was a ridiculous waste of money to install one in the sacristy at that time. I was rather saddened to find, a few years ago, that the rectory had been sold, the sacristy (which had had its own altar and where daily Mass had been celebrated for years) had been converted into office space – office hours 1-4 p.m. each Wednesday. Mass celebrated on Wednesdays at 7 p.m. and Sunday Mass is Saturday 7:00 p.m.

The church where I worship now didn’t have a washroom until 2000. You had to leave the church and go out past the sanctuary and into the sacristy to the office area to find a washroom. Until the mid 1990’s nobody would have done that unless it was an emergency. But, gradually, over a couple of years, leaving one’s pew while the Gospel was being proclaimed and walking right past the priest to go to the bathroom became thought of as acceptable. When the problem got bad enough a washroom was installed.

 

[Cathryn]

Actually, the practice of keeping coats on during Mass is an old tradition that dates back to the early days of the Church.

You see, sometimes Roman soldiers would interrupt the Mass and try to arrest people. Those who stopped to get their coats off the coat rack were almost always caught and fed to the lions. Those lucky few who did not find room on the coat rack and kept their coats with them were able to escape and propagate the faith. And the ones who did not even take their coats off got away even more quickly!

Thus a tradition was born. One that we see carried on until modern times! The Catholic Church is so rich in history!

Wow!!! I love that.

 

[lak611]

yes. She is a fallen away Catholic and because she was living with a man at the time felt it inappropriate to attend Mass . I could not convince her otherwise. She is no longer in my life as she broke up with this man and moved in with another so she wasn’t close to me physically (she used to live across the street) and when she moved she didn’t give me her new phone number or address! Pray for her too (Monica)!

Brenda V.

I will keep Monica in my prayers.

 

[CarrieH]

The church where I worship now didn’t have a washroom until 2000. You had to leave the church and go out past the sanctuary and into the sacristy to the office area to find a washroom. Until the mid 1990’s nobody would have done that unless it was an emergency.

Ours was definitely an afterthought, and I think it was furnished with leftovers from the school. The toilet sits low to the ground and the stall is very small. As a 5’11" plus-size woman, it’s a tight squeeze for me, but a schoolgirl would fit OK. I dread the day when someone larger than myself gets their booty stuck and has to call for help to get free! :bigyikes: Fortunately, a couple of years ago they put in a handicapped single-seater loo near to the Adoration chapel, so if nature calls, that’s where most of us go. The only problem with this is that if all is quiet inside the church, you can hear the toilet flushing if you’re in the chapel.

 

[the_phoenix]

I believe you are very close. If you look at the Vatican’s paintings of the Last Supper, Jesus and the twelve apostles never take off their cloaks. This tradition has been handed down by the faithful for over two thousand years.

BINGO !!!

The Last Supper was also a celebration of The Passover Meal, to be eaten while already dressed in preparation for the journey.

"In this manner you shall eat it: your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand … " Exodus 12:11

So the no coat rack thing is actually very Biblical.

~~ the phoenix

 

[BradW]

Oh man… I just realized that this is a command from Our Lord Himself. In the Gospel according to St. Matthew, 24:15-18

Therefore when you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house; and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak.

So we all keep them with us, just in case we see the Abomination of Desolation.

 

[Cat]

No bathrooms? Hmm…is this in the U.S.? As far as I know, the local building codes in the United States won’t allow a building to have no bathrooms.

And my husband said the same is probably true for heat–there is a minimum temperature that local building codes require in order for the building to be occupied by human beings. I’m not sure about this, but my husband usually knows a lot about buildings and carpentry.

As for my parish, it is actually rather friendly, and we have large coat racks in a secured part of the church building. It is one of those “contemporary” buildings, so someone was thinking when they designed it. And yes, we have talked to our pastor, and he is concerned that the church is a friendly place. He has a real heart for non-Catholics and said once in a homily that he is not only “Father” to the people in his church, but in his entire parish–that includes all the non-Catholics. His approach is to stand outside the sanctuary (in good weather, outside the church entrance) and greet everyone as they walk in–he kind of looks like a big beardless Santa Claus, very jolly and approachable. He is a hugger, too, and will often not only shake hands, but hug people. And as we have a fairly large vestibule, there is enough room for people to hang around before or after Mass and chat. AND the church is warm enough that most people take their coats off, although they usually don’t hang them up.

So I’m lucky.

Also, my husband and I tend to be very “visible” because I play piano (for children’s choir, too, so a lot of the parents know me) and my husband is involved in several teaching ministries. We are very comfortable greeting people that we know and don’t know–because we grew up Protestant and learned how to do this kind of thing early.

What really prompted this topic was the visit to another church out of town, and this made my husband and I think of other Catholic Churches we have visited. And then I thought of the older parish where I play–it’s very friendly because it’s Italian and the people talk a lot. But when I play there, I have to roll my coat up and set in on the floor next to the piano, or take it back to the sacristy, where there are a few hooks on the wall.

We honestly think that churches, including older churches, ought to address this issue, and put in a coat rack in an accessible place (not down in the basement! some people can’t do stairs). This is the 21st century and this is the U.S., and people in this culture expect basic amenities like bathrooms, heat, and a place to hang their coat. We’re not talking about chaise lounges and tropical heat in the sanctuary, we’re just talking about a simple coat rack. Some hooks on the wall (more than a few). Hardly a major expense.

 

[Cat]

I honestly don’t understand something here.

Several posters have compared Catholic and Protestant churches, and been rather disparaging about Protestant “socializing” vs. Catholic “Mass/worship.”

I find this rather offensive.

I was Protestant for most of my life, and although Protestants are missing the Eucharist, which is the Lord Himself, they are not at church merely to socialize. They come to church to receive the Lord through His Word, to pray, and to worship Him as best they know how through excellent music.

And Protestants don’t “socialize,” they “have fellowship with other believers.”

**I hope that people will stop criticizing Protestants for doing things that all CATHOLICS should be doing, too. **

And keep in mind that Protestant churches are growing by leaps and bounds. The megachurch in our community (which has coat racks) has several thousand people in attendance every weekend, and has a huge charitable outreach program that even our Catholic churches get involved with.

And even though Protestant churches don’t have Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, He is present nonetheless in those who believe in Him and have been baptized. So I fail to see why Catholics are getting so puffed up about our churches to the point where they say, “We don’t need coat racks, heat, bathrooms, hugs, etc.”

Maybe if you had more of these common amenities, more people would come to receive Jesus.

 

[Leopard]

No bathrooms? Hmm…is this in the U.S.? As far as I know, the local building codes in the United States won’t allow a building to have no bathrooms…

My parish is over 150 years old. Plumbing of any sort was not added for many years after the church was built, and there are many more much older parishes.

 

[Phemie]

My parish is over 150 years old. Plumbing of any sort was not added for many years after the church was built, and there are many more much older parishes.

In the church where I grew up, if there was running water it was only to the sacrarium. Church was built in the 20s when the socializing was still done on the church steps. Come to think of it, it still is.

That’s one thing I’ve noticed when I go home, there isn’t the constant buzz before Mass starts. Lot’s of catching up on the way out the door though.