P
Pope_Noah_I
Guest
Why?
- Status
S
SemperFidelis
Guest
Take this with a grain of salt, but this is what my opinion entails as it has been told to me by others. In parishes where the TLM and the NO are both celebrated, the NO must be the Mass said during the Easter Triduum, as only one Mass is said on those days and the NO is the Ordinary Form. Any parishes that celebrate the TLM exclusively may celebrate the TLM during the Triduum. TLM-only parishes have celebrated the TLM during the Triduum for quite a while I believe, and are allowed to continue to do so under Summorum Pontificum.
G
Genesis315
Guest
I agree with SF. That is what I gathered from my reading of the MP and from reading the interpretations of other bishops and priests.
M
markadm
Guest
It’s not that there may be no EF during the triduum, it’s that there may be no Private Masses. Often this effectively means the same thing because a Parish is Novus Ordo, but if your Parish normally celebrates the EF then it actually becomes the reverse!
A
Aramis
Guest
Essentially, the EF being barred is immaterial.
Unless the parish is part of one of the FSSP or similar licit organization, the “NO” OF is the default. An Indult parish can get permission from the bishop to continue as such.
But, during the tridium, as stated, no private masses may be offered at all, and under the MP, without the bishop’s (or priestly society’s superior’s) indult, ALL the EF masses are “private.”
So groups like the Fraternal Society of St. Peter, who have as a group obtained an indult for any parish they have set up by being part of the “permanent” indult, and will likely continue to do the triduum in latin. But them setting up parishes (or staffing them) is essentially done with the local ordinary’s permission anyway, and while the indult is not “from” him, his allowing them to fulfill their mission is a nod to their indult status anyway.
(I just can’t recall the other TLM priestly societies which are still licit… I do not mean to slight them.)
Unless the parish is part of one of the FSSP or similar licit organization, the “NO” OF is the default. An Indult parish can get permission from the bishop to continue as such.
But, during the tridium, as stated, no private masses may be offered at all, and under the MP, without the bishop’s (or priestly society’s superior’s) indult, ALL the EF masses are “private.”
So groups like the Fraternal Society of St. Peter, who have as a group obtained an indult for any parish they have set up by being part of the “permanent” indult, and will likely continue to do the triduum in latin. But them setting up parishes (or staffing them) is essentially done with the local ordinary’s permission anyway, and while the indult is not “from” him, his allowing them to fulfill their mission is a nod to their indult status anyway.
(I just can’t recall the other TLM priestly societies which are still licit… I do not mean to slight them.)
S
Saint_Gemma
Guest
Such as the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest.
B
Brendan
Guest
That is not true!
You are quite correct about there being no private Masses allowed during the Triduum, either OF or EF. In fact, on Good Friday, or Holy Saturday, there are no Masses at all, of either form.
Any priest can say the EF as a private Mass, no permission from anybody is required.
But, under the MP, a pastor may put a regularly scheduled EF on the parish calendar, if requested by a group of the faithful. This is not a ‘private’ Mass, but a regular, public Mass. The pastor needs no permission from the bishop to do so, as long as only 1 of these public Masses are celebrated on a given day, and that the OF be offered as well.
Now the MP does say if the EF is used, there has to be a OF Mass, so that pretty much excludes Holy Thursday, unless you have the permission of the bishop.
There is no prohibition on using the 1962 Good Friday Missal, it’s the pastors choice.
S
SemperFidelis
Guest
I’m not quite sure if that is correct. Parishes that solely celebrate the TLM, or do so a majority of the time, may celebrate the TLM on these days. However if a parish only occasionaly celebrates the TLM, they must use the NO during the Triduum.
B
Brendan
Guest
For Holy Thursday, there is only Mass possible. (except for the Cathedral). So the MP itself does not provide permission for that Mass to be celebrated using the EF. The local bishop may, however, provide permission.
There is no limit on using the 1962 Good Friday liturgy, as that is not a Mass.
S
SemperFidelis
Guest
I have heard many people say, including Priests, that the Holy Thursday Mass can be a TLM, if that parish always celebrates Mass that way (ie: FSSP, ICRSS, etc.)
B
Brendan
Guest
Yes, those parishes have the bishop’s approvals to do so.
I don’t disagree with that, all I’m saying is that the MP itself doesn’t give the permission to do so. It also says that a bishop may expand the permissions to what ever extent he want to
S
SemperFidelis
Guest
I was under the impression that the MP was all about the Priests in this instance, and just like the rest of the year, a Bishop couldn’t deny a Priest saying the TLM.Yes, those parishes have the bishop’s approvals to do so.
I don’t disagree with that, all I’m saying is that the MP itself doesn’t give the permission to do so. It also says that a bishop may expand the permissions to what ever extent he want to
K
kleary
Guest
This question was answered already by CA Apologists, and by EWTN’s council of theologians during public discussion aired live on TV.
For those of you who do not know, or still argue against using the EF IN PLACE of the OF during the Triduum where only one Liturgy may be offered, kindly sit down.
The EF is indeed allowed during the Sacred Triduum. It is just that no “Private Celebrations” of it are allowed- the same as Canon Law states about the Novus Ordo- “No Private Novus Ordo” during the Triduum either!
Ken
K
kleary
Guest
This is not so. The MP does not state this. A parish that regularly celebrates the Novus Ordo may in fact choose to use the 1962 Missal for the Holy Thursday, Good Friday Liturgy or the Easter Vigil. There is nothing in the MP that suggests that the parish MUST use the Novus Ordo during this time.
In regards to this argument the Ecclesia Dei Commision is well aware of this “debate” from what I hear and they will be issuing a response to set the record straight- It is a FACT that the local Bishops are restricting the celebration of the TLM in this way- by saying “NO TLM during the Truduum” or possibly saying that the NO MUST NOT be replaced by the TLM during the Triduum. They are called “Instruments of the Devil” by Archbishop Ranjith - believe it or not- for standing in the way of the Holy Father’s will.
Ken
K
kleary
Guest
I do not agree. I know a few parishes that would like to add a “more sense of the sacred” at the most sacred time of the year that only the 1962 Missal can offer. They would like to use the 1962 Missal especially for the Easter Vigil.
Even though the Novus Ordo is the “Ordinary Form”, there is no “restriction” to using the “Extraordinary Form” in place of it when only one liturgy is allowed. Since one liturgy is only allowed anyway on that day it can be using either form.
This is a question as I said that the ED commission needs to answer and they will I believe shortly, at least before Lent.
Ken
- Status