Why no repent in hell?

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MaximilianK

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I understand that there is no repentance after death (or in hell) what about will. Someone can explain ? Or i think Aquinas develops this problems
 
MaximilianK said:
I understand that there is no repentance after death (or in hell) what about will. Someone can explain ? Or i think Aquinas develops this problems
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I always thought it is because there is no “time” in the afterlife. Therefore, no change. Neither in heaven nor in hell. Those who go to heaven will never repent of being righteous. Those in hell will not repent of their sins.
 
If souls could repent after death, God would appear rather silly, as repentance would obviate the need for hell. It would render the goodness or evil of a person’s life as irrelevant to their salvation. Hell is absolutely required as part of God’s perfect justice. If His mercy is perfect, so also must His justice be.
 
De_Maria said:
I always thought it is because there is no “time” in the afterlife.
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Yes, exactly. Einstein’s theory of general relativity basically holds that there is no time without mass (as in weight, not liturgy). Spirits have no mass. Once you lose your body you also lose the ability to change, including to change your mind. Any difference between what you are and what God meant for you to be then has to play out in Purgatory—unless you’ve definitely rejected God, hence the topic…
 
There’s also the fact that repentance requires God’s grace, and in Hell we are completely cut off from God, and therefore incapable of receiving His grace. Since we cannot receive His grace, we cannot repent.
 
This is the only post so far that attempts to say “why”, the video posted also ignores the basic question if the caller. But I am not quite sure about this answer. There is no change at all in heaven ? I thought the speculation about aeviternity suggests there is some degree of change and action in heaven. There is some ordering of events beyond time. If so, then the “why no repentence in hell” is still an open question. Why do our wills become fixed after death? On one hand, if we have chosen God, it makes sense, we would be in his presence and never desire in the least bit to sin. On the other hand, of we reject God, why would we never desire to change our mind?
 
tafan2 said:
Why do our wills become fixed after death?
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Could you explain why my response doesn’t adequately address the concern?

Repentance is a gift of God’s grace, for which we require access to God. There is no access to God in Hell, and therefore no access to the graces required for repentance. The potential lack of change is secondary to the lack for the capacity for change.
 
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Yes, I understand your point. Perhaps it’s just me, but two points come to mind:
  1. your answer is not the standard answer. The standard answer is that our wills become fixed towards good or bad after death. But if we go to hell, why do they become fixed? Because we have no grace from God? Are we incapable of any good at all without grace? The fall did not totally corrupt man.
  2. if we are cut off from all grace, why? We turn away from God in this life, but yet can repent. Why does that change, isn’t that the underlying question?
ETA: I completely accept the Church’s teaching about hell. And it all makes sense to me with one assumption: our wills become fixed after death. I accept that assumption as true, but I am not for sure I understand why. The answer about time is the closest to addressing the point.
 
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tafan2 said:
But if we go to hell, why do they become fixed?
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For the reason given. Change for the good requires access to God’s grace. The damned cannot change because they don’t have access to the fundamental necessities for change.
tafan2 said:
Are we incapable of any good at all without grace?
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Nothing is truly good apart from God. Even the “good” the atheists and pagans do comes from God.
tafan2 said:
Why does that change, isn’t that the underlying question?
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Because the decision at Death is definiative. We tell God, to His face, that we would rather worship ourselves or our sins than Him. Or we tell Him that we are unwilling to accept His forgiveness and be purified. Being confronted with that ultimate Good, the source of all goodness and the literal purpose of our existence, and then choosing not to worship it… Once we make that choice there’s really nothing additional that could be added to the discussion to change our minds. That’s my take on it anyways.
 
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People “changing minds” happens as a result of our ignorance. We have limited knowledge and experiences, which means new knowledge and/or experience can cause us to change our mind. People develop and change every day.

If there is nothing new to learn, then there is no further mind changing.

God exhausts every grace and resource possible in order to save a soul, including in hidden ways that other people cannot see before the soul departs from the body. If they reject all of these graces, there is nothing left to make them change.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Because the decision at Death is definitive. We tell God, to His face, that we would rather worship ourselves or our sins than Him. Or we tell Him that we are unwilling to accept His forgiveness and be purified. Being confronted with that ultimate Good, the source of all goodness and the literal purpose of our existence, and then choosing not to worship it… Once we make that choice there’s really nothing additional that could be added to the discussion to change our minds. That’s my take on it anyways.
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Yes, this makes perfect sense. And while it is not opposed to the Church’s teaching, indeed I often use this same argument, one must admit that it is somewhat of an interpretation of the Church’s traditional teaching that is not explicit. The explicit teaching is more on the lines of: we commit a mortal sin, are not in a state of grace, and we die having failed to repent. We were given a chance to repent for sure, but when did we tell him “to His face” that we were not going to repent?
 
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TK421 said:
If there is nothing new to learn, then there is no further mind changing.

God exhausts every grace and resource possible in order to save a soul, including in hidden ways that other people cannot see before the soul departs from the body. If they reject all of these graces, there is nothing left to make them change.
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The “including in hidden ways other people cannot see before the soul departs from the body” is exactly what I was referring to in my previous post. I certainly believe that to be the case, and then it makes sense.
 
MarysLurker said:
Einstein’s theory of general relativity basically holds that there is no time without mass (as in weight, not liturgy). Spirits have no mass. Once you lose your body you also lose the ability to change, including to change your mind. Any difference between what you are and what God meant for you to be then has to play out in Purgatory—unless you’ve definitely rejected God, hence the topic…
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You understand there is a resurrection of the body; one would be “body and soul” in hell (or heaven); either way, body and soul in the presence of God, aflame in love (heaven), or eternally fleeing the flame of the ever presence of God who is a burning fire.
But there is no change in that resurrected body, nor in the eternal angst.
 
The Church’s official teaching is generally about expressing the bare-bones necessities. They leave a lot of the interpretation to the individual, so long as the individual doesn’t move into the realm of false teaching.

Since we don’t understand all the specific mechanics of judgment, we’re free to come up with theological potentials. This one makes the most sense to me, and in a way echoes the experience of the angels. The demons are damned because nothing could change their minds, they knew what their rebellion would cost them but chose it anyways. I believe that damnation is much the same. At judgment we see the two options, and the way we’ve shaped our souls throughout our lives drives us to one or the other extreme.
 
tafan2 said:
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TK421:
If there is nothing new to learn, then there is no further mind changing.

God exhausts every grace and resource possible in order to save a soul, including in hidden ways that other people cannot see before the soul departs from the body. If they reject all of these graces, there is nothing left to make them change.
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The “including in hidden ways other people cannot see before the soul departs from the body” is exactly what I was referring to in my previous post. I certainly believe that to be the case, and then it makes sense.
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Of course it is the case. Nobody wants people to go to Heaven more than God does. He will even humiliate Himself for his own creation.

But once all of these graces are exhausted, there is nothing new left to offer a person. So in the hereafter, souls are recalcitrant permanently. Repentance in this life is a phenomenon that exists because of inexperience and ignorance, but these no longer apply after death. “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do” applies to us on Earth, but it does not apply to the angels or to those who have passed beyond the veil.
 
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John_Martin said:
You understand there is a resurrection of the body
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Yes. But that goes along with a new heaven and a new earth that won’t exist until after the Last Judgment. With very few exceptions (Jesus Himself, the Blessed Virgin, Enoch, Elijah and maybe Moses) nobody else in Heaven has a body until the resurrection.
 
MarysLurker said:
Yes. But that goes along with a new heaven and a new earth that won’t exist until after the Last Judgment. With very few exceptions (Jesus Himself, the Blessed Virgin, Enoch, Elijah and maybe Moses) nobody else in Heaven has a body until the resurrection.
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Of course, eternity after the resurrection with a body in hell it’s a much longer time without repentance than the short time without repentance before the resurrection in hell. In other words, Einstein does not help answer the question.
 
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