Why not ask Mary and the Saints for prayers?

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aidanbradypop said:
So as a member of the Church of England, you have never prayed the Anglican Rosary?

What about that prayer do you find as “worship” or against your beliefs?
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I do not have any sort of prayer beads no. I say the Angelus sometimes, as it is a wonderful prayer of the Incarnation.
 
Indifferently said:
Read the alleged “prayer” I quote.

There is a wide gulf between the modest intercession “pray for us” and the idolatry of popular devotions like:

“Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.”

Which I found on EWTN.

People never “intend” idolatry. But the proof is often in the pudding.
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IMHO, I think its the way you take this prayer. I see nothing wrong with it. You still are asking her to intercede on your behalf. You are just giving her honor for being the Mother of Our Lord. Put this prayer into ones life, we almost always asked/ask our own mothers to forgive us or help us 🙂
 
kimg901 said:
IMHO, I think its the way you take this prayer. I see nothing wrong with it. You still are asking her to intercede on your behalf. You are just giving her honor for being the Mother of Our Lord. Put this prayer into ones life, we almost always asked/ask our own mothers to forgive us or help us 🙂
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Exactly. If one wants to view it as “worship” of the Blessed Mother then one will. Catholics can say all day until we are blue in the face that we only Worship God, yet for some it does not matter. 🤷
 
aidanbradypop said:
Exactly. If one wants to view it as “worship” of the Blessed Mother then one will. Catholics can say all day until we are blue in the face that we only Worship God, yet for some it does not matter. 🤷
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I feel your pain. We worship God. We honor Mary 🤷🤷
 
Indifferently said:
Read the alleged “prayer” I quote.

There is a wide gulf between the modest intercession “pray for us” and the idolatry of popular devotions like:

“Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.”

Which I found on EWTN.

.
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Let me ask:

How do you think Mary answers prayers? Does she answer/respond on her own power?

Or is it God who responds through Mary, in accordance with God’s will and divine providence?

And since Mary is in heaven, do you think she will do something on her own and contrary to God’s will?
People never “intend” idolatry. But the proof is often in the pudding
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What pudding are you talking about? It looks like it is pudding based on a lot of misconceptions and bias and misinformation…🤷
 
Indifferently said:
I do not have any sort of prayer beads no. I say the Angelus sometimes, as it is a wonderful prayer of the Incarnation.
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So you have no qualms praying this part of the Angelus:

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Is praying the part above idolatry to you?
 
Indifferently said:
There is nothing wrong with asking the Saints for prayers. Worshipping them, however, is idolatry.

Here is an example:
“O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary.”

Utterly indistinguishable from divine worship.
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I have no problem at all with this prayer to Our Mother of Perpetual Help, she is always ready to help us. We do not worship her. This prayer has nothing to do with idolatry. I believe it is taken from the Mother of Perpetual Help Novena.
 
Indifferently said:
Read the alleged “prayer” I quote.

There is a wide gulf between the modest intercession “pray for us” and the idolatry of popular devotions like:

“Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.”

Which I found on EWTN.

People never “intend” idolatry. But the proof is often in the pudding.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with this prayer either, often prayed at the ending of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Plus, if you see it on EWTN, they are faithful to all of Jesus’ teachings of the Holy Catholic Church, so that alone ought to tell you it is alright.
 
aidanbradypop said:
I had a conversation the other day on this topic so I thought I would present it to the forum. A Protestant friend of mine has prayer groups where they pray for others and ask for prayers in return.

I presented the question …If we can ask one another to pray for us, why can’t we ask the Mother of God and the Saints to do the same?

Her reply was that they are dead and do not pray for us and asking them to do so goes against Scripture.

Your thoughts?
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I would ask that person: if one’s soul is eternal, and cannot die, then why would you believe that the soul dies when the body dies?
 
pablope said:
So you have no qualms praying this part of the Angelus:

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Is praying the part above idolatry to you?
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Yes, I pray that. It is an entirely Christ-centred prayer, and we are asking Mary not to “make us worthy” but to intercede for us that God might makes us worthy (justification by faith, in other words).

Memorare is objectionable not so much in wording but in its tone. God only receives a fleeting mention in the petition which, otherwise, resembles very much a prayer to s god.
 
Indifferently said:
Read the alleged “prayer” I quote.

There is a wide gulf between the modest intercession “pray for us” and the idolatry of popular devotions like:

“Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.”

Which I found on EWTN.

People never “intend” idolatry. But the proof is often in the pudding.
Click to expand...
You consider this prayer to be idolatry i.e. worship directed toward Mary, who is a creature as opposed to the creator? Just curious…
 
“Sweet heart of Mary, be my salvation.”

Right.

I do not believe Rome has ever taught worship of Mary. I am merely reflecting that popular practises and devotions, even those not intended for worship, end up being indistinguishable from it.

Next time you kneel before a Mary statue, think on Acts 10:25-26:

‘When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.”’

Do you think Cornelius was trying to offer Peter “latria”, the worship due to God alone? Of course he wasn’t. But Peter rebuked him anyway.
 
Indifferently said:
“Sweet heart of Mary, be my salvation.”

Right.

I do not believe Rome has ever taught worship of Mary. I am merely reflecting that popular practises and devotions, even those not intended for worship, end up being indistinguishable from it.

Next time you kneel before a Mary statue, think on Acts 10:25-26:

‘When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.”’

Do you think Cornelius was trying to offer Peter “latria”, the worship due to God alone? Of course he wasn’t. But Peter rebuked him anyway.
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When you say Rome, you are referring to the Catholic Church. OK. Of course you are right to say that the CC has never taught worship of Mary. 👍
 
joe370 said:
When you say Rome, you are referring to the Catholic Church. OK. Of course you are right to say that the CC has never taught worship of Mary. 👍
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The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ (which is the blessed company of all faithful people).

When I say Rome I mean the Bishop of Rome and those in communion with him.
 
Indifferently said:
“Sweet heart of Mary, be my salvation.”

Right.

I do not believe Rome has ever taught worship of Mary. I am merely reflecting that popular practises and devotions, even those not intended for worship, end up being indistinguishable from it.

Next time you kneel before a Mary statue, think on Acts 10:25-26:

.
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So…you know what is in the heart of everyone in deep prayer, in front of a statue of Mary?

You making a presumption that that person is worshipping Mary? How do you even know who that person is praying to and praying about?
‘When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.”’
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Do you think Cornelius was trying to offer Peter “latria”, the worship due to God alone? Of course he wasn’t. But Peter rebuked him anyway.
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Cornelius was showing humility…so do you then presume that if you see someone kneeling in front of a statue…you are making a presumption of worship?
 
It is like reciting the Hail Mary beyond the biblical first part. Asking the blessed Virgin to pray for us merely recognizes her presence in heaven. I can’t image a God who would enter a woman and then leave her.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, now and at the hour of our death!
 
pablope said:
Cornelius was showing humility…so do you then presume that if you see someone kneeling in front of a statue…you are making a presumption of worship?
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You have obviously missed my point. Cornelius was humbling himself before Peter by kneeling at his feet, and Peter rebuked him fiercely, saying that he too was a man. Cornelius was not worshipping the Apostle as God, and yet, he was rebuked.

“No one can enter Heaven unless by Mary, as though through a door.”
So says late Medieval writer Bonaventure, enthusiastically quoted by Alphonsus Liguori, later declared doctor of the Church by the Roman Catholic hierarchy.
 
Indifferently said:
You have obviously missed my point. Cornelius was humbling himself before Peter by kneeling at his feet, and Peter rebuked him fiercely, saying that he too was a man. Cornelius was not worshipping the Apostle as God, and yet, he was rebuked.

“No one can enter Heaven unless by Mary, as though through a door.”
So says late Medieval writer Bonaventure, enthusiastically quoted by Alphonsus Liguori, later declared doctor of the Church by the Roman Catholic hierarchy.
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You miss the understanding of the Saint, its no different than, St Louis de Montfort.

“Let all, all be devout to the most blessed Virgin; and, after God, let us honor the most holy Virgin.Happy is the Christian who has the most blessed Virgin for him; and miserable is that Christian who has not the blessed Virgin on his side.The most blessed Virgin can obtain everything from God, because she is his true Mother, and is so much beloved by him; and she will do everything for us, because she is our Mother also, and loves us so much.Let us, therefore, always try to gain her friendship more and more; let us ingratiate ourselves with her more and more, by continually fostering in ourselves devotion towards her.Every day let us say her Rosary.Fast in her honor every Saturday.Observe the novenas and the fast before all her principal feasts.Practice some devotion also on all her smaller, even her smallest feasts.And let us, besides, in all our necessities, in all our misfortunes, have recourse to her, have confidence in her; and through her security in life, security in death, security through all eternity.”
 
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