Why not ask Mary and the Saints for prayers?

[StillCatholic]

Those of us who ARE looking at the 5 gazillion Protest denominations are certainly getting tired of it, too.

Good one:thumbsup:

 

[hosemonkey]

Good one:thumbsup:

Protestants, please explain to me how all the thousands of miracles that have occured due to the intercession of Our Blessed Mother and of the saints have taken place. Is this mere coincidence or just happenstance? Is it wishful thinking that was at work here? I have a sense of pity and compassion that so many would choose to reject such a wonderful source of help and assistance, from those who have achieved heaven and yet continue to be concerned about us. The Church has not taught this laudable principle for the last two thousand years for nothing.

 

[joe370]

Protestants, please explain to me how all the thousands of miracles that have occured due to the intercession of Our Blessed Mother and of the saints have taken place. Is this mere coincidence or just happenstance? Is it wishful thinking that was at work here? I have a sense of pity and compassion that so many would choose to reject such a wonderful source of help and assistance, from those who have achieved heaven and yet continue to be concerned about us. The Church has not taught this laudable principle for the last two thousand years for nothing.

That question is worthy of a thread of its own.

 

[Jeanne1184]

Protestants, please explain to me how all the thousands of miracles that have occured due to the intercession of Our Blessed Mother and of the saints have taken place. Is this mere coincidence or just happenstance? Is it wishful thinking that was at work here? I have a sense of pity and compassion that so many would choose to reject such a wonderful source of help and assistance, from those who have achieved heaven and yet continue to be concerned about us. The Church has not taught this laudable principle for the last two thousand years for nothing.

Healing takes place because God is merciful, gracious and understanding on this matter. The Holy Spirit reads our hearts, so I suspect He/She ‘corrects’ the prayer to the proper form before sending it onward and upward. I’d hate to think that every mis-addressed prayer to a mortal soul was tossed in the bin.

It would be rather a drag, I would think, for God and Christ to receive millions of prayers every day addressed to someone else.

Why not suspend prayers to beings other than God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit and see if prayers still get answered? If they don’t, then the problem lies within - not with the Trinity. If we think that Mary can do more for us than the Trinity…well, I just don’t know how one can reconcile that with trust in the Message of Christ in the Bible.

It might be far more helpful if we prayed for Mary and not to her.

There is a program on EWTN right this minute (Saints Alive) with a priest saying some pretty strange things about Mary. His answers were actually so bizarre that I researched St. Louis de Montfort and found these links.

ewtn.com/library/Montfort/secret.htm

ewtn.com/library/montfort/truedevo.htm

B. TO FIND THE GRACE OF GOD, WE MUST DISCOVER MARY

1. It all comes to this, then. We must discover a simple means to obtain from God the grace needed to become holy. It is precisely this I wish to teach you. My contention is that you must first discover Mary if you would obtain this grace from God.
2. 1. In going to Jesus through Mary, we are really paying honour to our Lord, for we are showing that, because of our sins, we are unworthy to approach his infinite holiness directly on our own. We are showing that we need Mary, his holy Mother, to be our advocate and mediatrix with him who is our Mediator.

Likewise we imitate God the Son, who by giving us his example for us to follow, inspires us to go to him using the same means he used in coming to us, that is, through Mary. Again, we imitate the Holy Spirit, who bestows his graces and gifts upon us through Mary. “Is it not fitting,” remarks St Bernard, “that grace should return to its author by the same channel that conveyed it to us?”

((And now the Holy Spirit has to go through Mary as well?))

Does this really have the ‘ring of Truth’ to you?

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

“5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”

 

[GaryTaylor]

Does this really have the ‘ring of Truth’ to you?

Yes it really does. All Grace came through Mary by the Lords will. That is the “truth”.

Why don’t we all re-join Mother Church which indeed has the same tradition throughout history instead of suggesting what else we don’t need and should suspend.

 

[Yerusalyim]

I had a conversation the other day on this topic so I thought I would present it to the forum. A Protestant friend of mine has prayer groups where they pray for others and ask for prayers in return.

I presented the question …If we can ask one another to pray for us, why can’t we ask the Mother of God and the Saints to do the same?

Her reply was that they are dead and do not pray for us and asking them to do so goes against Scripture.

Your thoughts?

and your response to her should be from scriptures…God the Father is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob…he is God of the living…not the dead. (From Luke 20:38).

 

[berk60]

Berk do you believe Catholics do not pray to God? That we are not allowed to pray directly to God? It seems you believe only Protestants pray to God.

I believe that Catholics pray to God. My mom is Catholic and she says that she talks to God all the day long.

 

[peace2u2]

It might be far more helpful if we prayed for Mary and not to her.

(And now the Holy Spirit has to go through Mary as well?))

Does this really have the ‘ring of Truth’ to you?

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jeanne, First of all can you clarify your religion: AA. ? To me that stands for Alcohol Anonymous.

Second, the Holy Spirit DID GO THRU Mary. Its called the Incarnation when God became man in the form of a little baby in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

God certainly did not have to go thru Mary to give us Jesus…but HE DID!

God does not mind if we pray thru Mary in Jesus’ name. It basically means that because Mary is more perfect and more pure than I ever will be on this earth, the prayer that I offer thru her in Jesus’ name is brought to the throne of God in her perfection because I am not pure or perfect. I am a sinner. Remember, sin separates us from God, even the tinest bit of sin removes us from God’s presence, so Mary takes my prayer and brings it to the throne of God and God never refuses Mary, the mother of His Only Begotten Son, if the prayer is in accordance to His Will.

What a beautiful gesture that we return to heaven by the same path that Mary took, by trusting God with our entire beings. She is a beautiful role model for us all.

Happy Mothers Day to my beloved Heavenly Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary!:flowers:

 

[Jeanne1184]

Yes it really does. All Grace came through Mary by the Lords will. That is the “truth”.

Why don’t we all re-join Mother Church which indeed has the same tradition throughout history instead of suggesting what else we don’t need and should suspend.

Well, I don’t plan to leave the Church over it any more than I plan to vacate America over same-sex marriage. When there are problems, we strive to use God’s Plan through the Holy Spirit to work them out. However, if ‘Mary’ ever succeeds in getting top billing, that’s something different.

“I baptize you in the name of Mary, God, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Or the sign of the Cross, “In the name of Mary, God, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Or, by the sound of St. Louis Marie de Montfort’s articles, we could take out God and still have a trinity of sorts, perhaps. Not likely.

That Saints Alive program last night was eye-opening stuff, for me.

 

[EIF5A]

If we can ask God for forgiveness out of contrition of the heart, without going through Mary, why can we only approach God through Mary?

Where in Scripture does it say we can only approach God through Mary or is that a new revelation?

Is Mary the throne of grace that we should come boldly before?

 

[pablope]

If we can ask God for forgiveness out of contrition of the heart, without going through Mary, why can we only approach God through Mary?

Where in Scripture does it say we can only approach God through Mary or is that a new revelation?

Is Mary the throne of grace that we should come boldly before?

You can approach God in manner you want to. There are Catholics that do that, go directly to God too…but there are also lots of catholics who elect to go through Mary or a saint.

Is this what you are trying to comprehend…why we choose to go through Mary or any saint?

To help you gain some understanding, let me cite this passage from job 42:

7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer.

Here is my question…why does God tell Eliphaz and his friends to go through Job to be forgiven? Why did God not just forgive them directly?

 

[EIF5A]

You can approach God in manner you want to. There are Catholics that do that, go directly to God too…but there are also lots of catholics who elect to go through Mary or a saint.

I can understand that, but what I’m wondering about is the necessity to go through Mary because she is believed to be a/the mediator between humans and the Holy Trinity.

The above example seems to indicate that we have to have Mary’s intercession to approach God.

I honor the Virgin Mary who is full of grace and blessed through all generations, but I hesitate to give her honor and ascribe power to her that only belongs to the Holy Trinity.

 

[pablope]

I can understand that, but what I’m wondering about is the necessity to go through Mary because she is believed to be a/the mediator between humans and the Holy Trinity.

The above example seems to indicate that we have to have Mary’s intercession to approach God.

I honor the Virgin Mary who is full of grace and blessed through all generations, but I hesitate to give her honor and ascribe power to her that only belongs to the Holy Trinity.

Is this what you are trying to comprehend…why we choose to go through Mary or any saint?

To help you gain some understanding, let me cite this passage from job 42:

7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer.

Here is my question…why does God tell Eliphaz and his friends to go through Job to be forgiven? Why did God not just forgive them directly?

 

[EIF5A]

Is this what you are trying to comprehend…why we choose to go through Mary or any saint?

To help you gain some understanding, let me cite this passage from job 42:

7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer.

Here is my question…why does God tell Eliphaz and his friends to go through Job to be forgiven? Why did God not just forgive them directly?

Were their hearts hardened? Would they have physically said a prayer but their heart was insincere so they were incapable of having contrition and offering an effective prayer? I don’t know.

But Jesus taught us a prayer, and in it, we ask for God’s forgiveness. He never said forgiveness requires the intercession of His mother.

 

[Jeanne1184]

Is this what you are trying to comprehend…why we choose to go through Mary or any saint?

To help you gain some understanding, let me cite this passage from job 42:

7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer.

Here is my question…why does God tell Eliphaz and his friends to go through Job to be forgiven? Why did God not just forgive them directly?

Perhaps Job is a ‘type’ for Christ before the Gift of the Holy Spirit was made available through Christ’s crucifixation; Job had been made the mediator by God’s will (and He likely used many before the One-for-All arrived). Interesting passage you selected to contemplate the striking difference between being under Law and being under Grace. I’m gonna marinate it a little longer and ask for more clarity.

On the Grace side, Christ says that no one comes to the Father but by Him (Christ). And no one to Christ except by the Holy Spirit. In the past, when I prayed ‘directly’ to God, I only thought incorrectly that I was doing so. However, if I prayed with a ‘right heart’, the Holy Spirit put my prayers on the correct path to Jesus.

It isn’t about being ‘wrong’. Maturing spiritually is a process. “When I know better, I do better.” I’m still working; still growing.

 

[GaryTaylor]

When there are problems, we strive to use God’s Plan through the Holy Spirit to work them out.

Is Gods plan Mary, being the Mother of God? Did all grace pass through Mary and is Mary full of grace? Then why would you suggest this wouldn’t continue to occur? Listen carefully…it doesn’t stand to reason. All generations will call Her Blessed.

So there you have it.

Historically and in Reality Mary has “always” been highly venerated in the Apostolic Church’s in fact coming up on 2000 years…“Always” !

Your understanding of the Trinity also came to you by way of “Mother Church”. No confusion over the Trinity only in the minds of those who persecute the Church. Predictable and expected actually. You’ve involved yourself in the systematic destruction of the Apostolic Church’s and in this case the Church of Rome. For no good reason from what I see. God’s Kingdom isn’t pick and choose, and then to use Scripture to critic Gods most holy? Frankly I find it lacking. There’s a deeper formation yet to be realized here, for sure.

You see Gods Kingdom in a modified, stripped down version of what “man” thought it should be. However, as you say the most Holy Trinity has already determined what is. Mary is part of the what is plan, for sure.

My Prayers are with you.

 

[Harry1941]

That question is worthy of a thread of its own.

When I say my prays in the morning, I pray to the Lord, and to the Father in Him at the same time. The Lord did say in John 10:30 The Father and I are one, and in John:14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Harry:wave:

 

[joe370]

When I say my prays in the morning, I pray to the Lord, and to the Father in Him at the same time. The Lord did say in John 10:30 The Father and I are one, and in John:14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Harry:wave:

 

[hosemonkey]

When I say my prays in the morning, I pray to the Lord, and to the Father in Him at the same time. The Lord did say in John 10:30 The Father and I are one, and in John:14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Harry:wave:

Catholics also pray to the Father and to the Son, but we also seek the aid and intercession of God’s closest friends, our Blessed Mother and of all the Angels and Saints. Anyone who does not is rejecting a great source of help.

 

[Jeanne1184]

Catholics also pray to the Father and to the Son, but we also seek the aid and intercession of God’s closest friends, our Blessed Mother and of all the Angels and Saints. Anyone who does not is rejecting a great source of help.

How could more help be needed beyond God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit? Omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresence just doensn’t work for some? The Plan of Salvation is imperfect?

Tis a puzzler.