Why not speak out against Protestants?

[sandmountainsli]

They may have different opinions when it comes to small things, but when it comes to the basis of their faith they all believe the same. If they don’t they are not truly part of the body/church of Christ. Although, it is not our job to judge.

I agree with this.
Speaking as a Congregational Methodist I will go so far as to say any church that condones Homesexual marriage and/or ordains homosexuals and any church that ordains women as ministers or bishops are doing the tango with apostacy.
WP

 

[awantz]

I agree with this.
Speaking as a Congregational Methodist I will go so far as to say any church that condones Homesexual marriage and/or ordains homosexuals and any church that ordains women as ministers or bishops are doing the tango with apostacy.
WP

Agreed

 

[Kitty_Chan]

the issue is not about humility. the issue is about truth. truth is not relative. truth can also be like a sword. Jesus said He came to divide. He also said there will be many that call on His name and He will say I never knew you. there was a church established by Christ, the Catholic Church. all that are outside of the One true Church are man made religions. it most certainly makes a difference which church you follow. the difference has a bearing on your salvation. the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. and God’s grace in the gift of the sacraments. anything other is risking flawed theology, partial truth and the risk of not obtaining salvation.
the message Jesus was conveying that you speak of has more to do with service and sacrificing for others and much less to do with denomination. by not speaking out in love against flawed Protestant theology and practice, Catholics are risking the lose of the souls of Protestants and judgement upon themselves for not using the gift of truth they were given.

7Jesus7Saves was speaking about humility, about being one thing in church then another outside, to that I was responding.

You mention its not humility but truth. A proud man will never understand truth, he doesnt want to. Only those who are humble can see truth. When these discussions come about about who is greatest (church) it reminds me of that discussion and Christs answer.

Truth is Christ and what He did to save us. We can argue till we are blue in the face about what church is greatest. Ive been to a seventh day seminar and believe me they have compelling arguements as well. Most religions do.

Truth is Christ, there is no other. I see that you would want to speak up against flawed practice, I do too, thus why I couldnt agree with all the 7th days said, there was flaws. That involved hate of another group called catholics. If Im so flawed then how could I understand that?

Im not saying that everything should fly, dont turn that around. But Gods Word does not go out empty, He speaks to the oddest of us through the centuries. When we run into Truth, its hard to run from. God does persue us and He finds us everywhere. He wants us to come to Him, thats whats important, that we see Him, then Heaven rejoices.

 

[lak611]

I agree with this.
Speaking as a Congregational Methodist I will go so far as to say any church that condones Homesexual marriage and/or ordains homosexuals and any church that ordains women as ministers or bishops are doing the tango with apostacy.
WP

You are correct. All of those practices are condemned by the Bible.

 

[guanophore]

I believe that is the church of Jesus Christ and we are all part of His church/body… It is not the church of Catholics, Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, or any other human.

How do you imagine this, since all these people left the Church that Jesus started?

 

[guanophore]

They may have different opinions when it comes to small things, but when it comes to the basis of their faith they all believe the same. If they don’t they are not truly part of the body/church of Christ. Although, it is not our job to judge.

Which are the small things, and which are the big?

 

[lak611]

I believe that is the church of Jesus Christ and we are all part of His church/body… It is not the church of Catholics, Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, or any other human.

How do you imagine this, since all these people left the Church that Jesus started?

I don’t think it is fair to lump in the majority of Protestants today with the original Protestants, such as Luther, Zwingli and Calvin. The typical Protestant today did not leave the Catholic Church; rather, he belongs to whatever faith he was raised in. Yes, there are converts to Catholic and Protestant faiths, but the majority of people just belong to whatever church they were raised in. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”[272]**

 

[mikew262]

the issue is not about humility. the issue is about truth. truth is not relative. truth can also be like a sword. Jesus said He came to divide. He also said there will be many that call on His name and He will say I never knew you. there was a church established by Christ, the Catholic Church. all that are outside of the One true Church are man made religions. it most certainly makes a difference which church you follow. the difference has a bearing on your salvation. the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. and God’s grace in the gift of the sacraments. anything other is risking flawed theology, partial truth and the risk of not obtaining salvation.
the message Jesus was conveying that you speak of has more to do with service and sacrificing for others and much less to do with denomination. by not speaking out in love against flawed Protestant theology and practice, Catholics are risking the lose of the souls of Protestants and judgement upon themselves for not using the gift of truth they were given.

Keep in mind, as devout as you appear about the the Catholic Church, there are just as many devout Protestants that try to convince us Catholics how flawed our theology is, and if we don’t change, our salvation is in risk.

I don’t think you can judge (we shouldn’t be judging anyway) somebody’s salvation chances based on their Christian denomination.

 

[mikew262]

Then how come some say infant baptism is OK, some don’t. Some say that Jesus is present in the Eucharist, some don’t. Some have abridged bibles, some don’t. Some have women pastors, some don’t. Some say the practice of homosexuality is OK, some don’t.

For being the same church, they sure are different.

Are these really the true, important issues to God or has Man made these the key issues?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If you were a person of another faith, who grew up living next to a group of bigoted Catholics, the chance that you would convert is slim. Same holds true for Catholics living next to bigoted(name the religion).

If you want to attract people to the Catholic Faith, then, live as a good Catholic. Be kind and charitable as Christ was. Non-judgemental and not an “in-your-face” Catholic which is a major turn-off.

As the saying goes, “you will attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.”

Jim

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

I don’t think it is fair to lump in the majority of Protestants today with the original Protestants, such as Luther, Zwingli and Calvin. The typical Protestant today did not leave the Catholic Church; rather, he belongs to whatever faith he was raised in. Yes, there are converts to Catholic and Protestant faiths, but the majority of people just belong to whatever church they were raised in. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”[272]**
So the catholic church is therefore tolerant of other christian denominations and accepts those outside of our church as christians , full stop ! That is why i remain catholic…a tolerant , reasonable faith…peace from africa !!!

 

[awantz]

How do you imagine this, since all these people left the Church that Jesus started?

Because it says in the BIBLE that we are all part of His body in which He is the head.

 

[awantz]

Which are the small things, and which are the big?

The big things are the things that determine your salvation. The small things are things in which your opinion has no bearing on your salvation.

 

[awantz]

I don’t think it is fair to lump in the majority of Protestants today with the original Protestants, such as Luther, Zwingli and Calvin. The typical Protestant today did not leave the Catholic Church; rather, he belongs to whatever faith he was raised in. Yes, there are converts to Catholic and Protestant faiths, but the majority of people just belong to whatever church they were raised in. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”[272]**

I totally agree. I like the way you put it.

 

[Robert902]

Eph 2:20
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

This verse affirms that the church is "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ himself as the “chief cornerstone.” Two things are clear from this: First, all the apostles not just Peter are the foundation of the church; second, the only one who was given a unique or prominant place was Jesus Christ, the “cheif-cornerstone”. Christ

The church was never founded upon Peter.

And The Apostle Paul agrees with you in Eph 1:22-23. “And He put all under His feet and gave Him to be head over all things to the church. Which is His body; the fulness of Him who fills all in all.”

God Bless,
Robert

 

[guanophore]

The big things are the things that determine your salvation. The small things are things in which your opinion has no bearing on your salvation.

Ok, but how do you decide which things are essential to our salvation?

 

[awantz]

Ok, but how do you decide which things are essential to our salvation?

According to scripture.

 

[guanophore]

I do not believe that only Catholics are part of the one church and I know Catholics who agree. I was told by a Catholic that this is Vaticcan one. I agree that Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, not many churches. I disagree that there is no salvation outside of the Holy Catholic and Apistolic Church. I agree that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body. I disagree that it is the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

This was a response to another post. Are you saying that you realize that the Catechism teaches that there is only one Church, and that all beleivers belong to it, whether they are Catholic or not?

The Catholic church is quite denominational. They exclued all other churches and the non-denominational church welcomes people of all denominations.

What is the definition of “denominational”?

I have prayed about it and that is why I have not gone through conformation. I do not need to go through conformation to be in the fullness of Christianity, I am already in the fullness of Christianity.

I might have missed your answer to this somewhere, but if you already are in fullness, why are you here in this forum?

I disagree with you and I could give you scripture, but if I did that you would probably say that I am sola scripture which is a lie.

I am curious about how you are not “sola scriptura”. you are not Catholic, so do you have other traditions? You made this point about non-Catholic believers:

They may have different opinions when it comes to small things, but when it comes to the basis of their faith they all believe the same. If they don’t they are not truly part of the body/church of Christ. Although, it is not our job to judge.

I agree that it is not right to judge other people, but I do think it is important to judge right doctrine. I asked you which were the “small things” and which were the “big”. You answered:

Things essential to salvation.

or something like that, I could not find the post

So I asked you how you determined which doctrines were those that are essential to salvation, and you said:

According to scripture.

Protestants don’t believe that the scripture itself is in error, but everyone interprets scripture a little diffrently. Some Protestants feel that some Catholics interpret scripture wrong and viceversa.

I asked you about how you determine which things were essential to salvation. Here you are saying that people can interpret scripture erroneously. So, you must be very certain, since you are in the fullness of God’s will, that you are not one of those that is interpreting scripture wrong. How can you know that? You have said that you are not Sola Scriptura. Do you appeal to an authority outside yourself?

 

[awantz]

This was a response to another post. Are you saying that you realize that the Catechism teaches that there is only one Church, and that all beleivers belong to it, whether they are Catholic or not?

How can I know that catechism teaches that? When, I hear Catholics say that only Catholics are part of the one Church. However, that is what I believe.

What is the definition of “denominational”?

A religious group that only accepts people of their religious group.

I might have missed your answer to this somewhere, but if you already are in fullness, why are you here in this forum?

I am here for a couple of reasons. One, I am here to help Catholics understand that they have the wrong idea about Protesants. Two, I am here because my husband is Catholic. Three, I what Protestants to see that they also have a misunderstanding of Catholics. Four, my husband and I would like to see unity come about between Catholics and Protestants. I could go on and on.

I am curious about how you are not “sola scriptura”. you are not Catholic, so do you have other traditions? You made this point about non-Catholic believers:

Actually, I follow some of the same traditions as Catholics.

I asked you about how you determine which things were essential to salvation. Here you are saying that people can interpret scripture erroneously. So, you must be very certain, since you are in the fullness of God’s will, that you are not one of those that is interpreting scripture wrong. How can you know that? You have said that you are not Sola Scriptura. Do you appeal to an authority outside yourself?

How can anyone know if they are determining scripture correctly? You can’t and that is why you don’t depend on sola scripture. Yes, I appeal to God above all else.

 

[guanophore]

How can I know that catechism teaches that? When, I hear Catholics say that only Catholics are part of the one Church. However, that is what I believe.

You might consider READING IT! IF you really want to know the teachings, is it not better to go to the source, instead of relying upon the testimony of the uneducated? Catholics believe that validly baptized christians are part of the Catholic church. That is why they are saved. There is no salvation outside the Church.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”[272]

A religious group that only accepts people of their religious group.

I am not sure what your definition of a “religious group” would be, but I don’t think the Catholic Church is one of those. It is the Body of Christ, established by Jesus before leaving earth. It is not invented by people, or defined by people, but by God. In the same way, people don’t decide who is part of it, God does.

I am here for a couple of reasons. One, I am here to help Catholics understand that they have the wrong idea about Protesants.

I am sure this is true in some cases. But, what is your point? I mean, if you are able to convince Catholics that they have a wrong idea about Protestants, how will that get you ahead?

Two, I am here because my husband is Catholic.

With all due respect, what does you husband being Catholic have to do with you being on the forum? I mean, how are the two related? Sorry I missed your point.

Three, I what Protestants to see that they also have a misunderstanding of Catholics.

What might that be?

Four, my husband and I would like to see unity come about between Catholics and Protestants. I could go on and on.

By all means! Please go on! If this is your answer to the other question above about working with your husband to bring unity in the Body, then you answered my question already.

Actually, I follow some of the same traditions as Catholics.

If this is true, then why are you not Catholic? I think there may be SOME you don’t follow…

How can anyone know if they are determining scripture correctly? You can’t and that is why you don’t depend on sola scripture. Yes, I appeal to God above all else.

One can know one is determining scripture correctly because Jesus left His spirit to guide us into all truth. I don’t depend upon sola scriptura because God gave the spirit to His church, not the book, to guide us in how to read it. It is my way of depending upon God above all else. Thank you for your post.