Why not speak out against Protestants?

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You might consider READING IT! IF you really want to know the teachings, is it not better to go to the source, instead of relying upon the testimony of the uneducated? Catholics believe that validly baptized christians are part of the Catholic church. That is why they are saved. There is no salvation outside the Church.

I have read some of it. Not all Catholics accord ing to some of the posts I’ve read in other threads and what I heard in RCIA. If validy baptized christians are part of the Catholic church then validly baptized christians should be able to take part in the Eucharist/Holy Communion in the Catholic church.
guanophore;2001228:
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”[272]
I’ve got to find that, because I’ve got some people/Catholics I’d like to see that.
I am not sure what your definition of a “religious group” would be, but I don’t think the Catholic Church is one of those. It is the Body of Christ, established by Jesus before leaving earth. It is not invented by people, or defined by people, but by God. In the same way, people don’t decide who is part of it, God does.
A religious group is a church/faith. I totally agree that it is up to God, not man, who is a part of His body. There are a lot of people, Catholics and Protestants alike, in here that need to read that.
I am sure this is true in some cases. But, what is your point? I mean, if you are able to convince Catholics that they have a wrong idea about Protestants, how will that get you ahead?
If they can see that maybe then they will be more accepting and we can move closer to unity within the body of Christ.
With all due respect, what does you husband being Catholic have to do with you being on the forum? I mean, how are the two related? Sorry I missed your point.
This is a Catholic forum and I see a lot of things from a Catholic view point because of him. Although some things on here contradict each other as well as what he tells me. So, I am trying to get somethings cleared out.
One can know one is determining scripture correctly because Jesus left His spirit to guide us into all truth. I don’t depend upon sola scriptura because God gave the spirit to His church, not the book, to guide us in how to read it. It is my way of depending upon God above all else. Thank you for your post.
You just answered your own guestion. You asked me how I know you just said why. Because of the Holy Spirit.
 
I have read some of it. Not all Catholics accord ing to some of the posts I’ve read in other threads and what I heard in RCIA. If validy baptized christians are part of the Catholic church then validly baptized christians should be able to take part in the Eucharist/Holy Communion in the Catholic church.

I’ve got to find that, because I’ve got some people/Catholics I’d like to see that.

A religious group is a church/faith. I totally agree that it is up to God, not man, who is a part of His body. There are a lot of people, Catholics and Protestants alike, in here that need to read that.

If they can see that maybe then they will be more accepting and we can move closer to unity within the body of Christ.

This is a Catholic forum and I see a lot of things from a Catholic view point because of him. Although some things on here contradict each other as well as what he tells me. So, I am trying to get somethings cleared out.

You just answered your own guestion. You asked me how I know you just said why. Because of the Holy Spirit.
Please read Scott Hahn’s book : ROME SWEET HOME …a real life story of a former protestant minister. After converting , his and his wifes family gave him 100 % love and support…real christians to my mind. This book so impressed me in its content that i bought a few copies and placed them in the local public libraries. Catholics are a minority here and i just grew tired of protestants TELLING me what we believe…now let them read for themselves ! Peace…👍 👍 👍
 
Christ founded the Church on Peter and promised him that not even the gates of the Netherworld would prevail against it. that is one of the main reason i decided to convert to the Church. so why can’t/don’t Catholics speak out against other churches? to me, Protestants are calling Christ a liar by starting their own church since most claim that the Church fell into error or are teaching error. I could go to church with my baptist grandmother and the preacher will put down the Church all day long, but when i go to mass or even my RCIA class, they never mention the Protestants and won’t say that they are the ones in fact that are in error. they usually say something to the effect of “the body of Christ is broken enough.” or something like that if I bring it up. thanks.
Firstly,… don’t let you dreams fade…! 🙂

Secondly,… railing against protestants (revolutionaries) to Catholics doesn’t do anything constructive,… and doing so to protestants just makes them pissy and even the less receptive to the sense of what they’re missing by not being Catholic.

Catholics KNOW that protestants are missing out, and feel sorry for them, but they understand that they are stubborn children who can’t be nudged into a receptive position by annoying them.

Protestants KNOW that they are RIGHT, and yet are very insecure with what they KNOW to the point of having to rail against Catholics to have anything interesting to talk about.

So, what do you do?

Be a model of holiness, and let God do God’s work in God’s way.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
 
Jesus Christ started a church - He told Peter - Upon this rock I will build **MY **Church. In order to be a good protestant, you have to believe that this church was not the Catholic Church, but the church of Luther or Zwingli or Calvin 1500 years later. If one reads the early church fathers like Ignatius or Augustine or many others, you will find that they were all Catholics, and that there were no Calvinists, Baptists, Lutherans or Methodists anywhere around. Apostolic succession and the Eucharist is why the Catholic Church is the one true Church started by Jesus Himself.
Ephesians 2:20 “having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone”. We have a problem here. God used the plural word apostles…not singular as in only one apostle. Peter is only one apostle and consequently could not singularly be the foundation which Jesus Christ built His church on. There are no errors in The Bible, and if God said apostles, He meant more than one.

God Bless,
Robert

The Bible commands us to “test all things.”​

 
I believe that is the church of Jesus Christ and we are all part of His church/body… It is not the church of Catholics, Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, or any other human.
The rock is Christ, not Peter. In the original Greek it is “Thou art Petros [a little piece of rock] and upon this Petra [bedrock] I will build my church.” We have seen Peter’s own explanation of this. In 1 Peter 2:4 referring to Christ He writes, “to whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious.” And he remembers Isaiah 28:16,"…Behold I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious and he that believeth on Him shall not be confounded" ( I Peter 2:6) The church is built upon Christ; He is the foundation. For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" ( 1 Cor 3:11) Christ is the Stone, and He says on this rock He will build His church.
I know I keep repeating this, but we are commanded to test all things. Don’t take my word for it, or anyone else’s word as truth. Test what anyone tells you against what God tells you…in His word, The Bible.

God Bless,
Robert

1 Thes 5:21-22 “Test all things.”​

 
Except that Jesus didn’t speak Greek. In Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, he called Peter Cephas, which means Big Rock.

Check out the following scripture to verify…

John 1:42: He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, “So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter).
 
The rock is Christ, not Peter. In the original Greek it is “Thou art Petros [a little piece of rock] and upon this Petra [bedrock] I will build my church.” We have seen Peter’s own explanation of this. In 1 Peter 2:4 referring to Christ He writes, “to whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious.” And he remembers Isaiah 28:16,"…Behold I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious and he that believeth on Him shall not be confounded" ( I Peter 2:6) The church is built upon Christ; He is the foundation. For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" ( 1 Cor 3:11) Christ is the Stone, and He says on this rock He will build His church.
I know I keep repeating this, but we are commanded to test all things. Don’t take my word for it, or anyone else’s word as truth. Test what anyone tells you against what God tells you…in His word, The Bible.

God Bless,
Robert

1 Thes 5:21-22 “Test all things.”​

I think both things are true, Robert. My question for you is this. If Jesus did not intend to use Peter for His building, why did He rename him, and call him a Petros? What would be the need? What WAS his calling as “a little peice of rock”?

Also I note that you appeal to scripture as your authority. I would like to know where you got the Bible you are using.
 
I am old enough (over 70) to remember the relationships between protestants and Catholics well before Vatican II. They were often non-existent. World War II came along and then Korea. Protestants and Catholics shared foxholes,barracks, and danger. We learned there were real people outside of our self imposed ghettos. It got very hard to continue to treat each other as some form of sub-human or vermin. One may blame it all on political correctness, but I think that most of us have learned that we have more in common than we have in opposition. Want to defend your Faith one- on- one, do it, but do so respectfully. Protestants do not consider converting when Catholics treat them like some sort of religous sub-human.🙂
That is truly a beautiful post. I needed to hear it. Thank you. You really touched me.
 
It’s a matter of faith! Hopefully Protestants will see something in the life of a Catholic that will draw them to think about the Church. Our belief in the Eucharist comes from God’s gift and argument does not seem to be an effective approach. This is the approach taken be our JW and Morman friends and is not worth of us, either Catholic or Orthodox.

Catholics are secure in our faith- we don’t really need to banter back and forth. Protestantism is a very sad development attributable to faults in both the Catholic Church and in faults of Luther and those that came after him.
 
I think both things are true, Robert. My question for you is this. If Jesus did not intend to use Peter for His building, why did He rename him, and call him a Petros? What would be the need? What WAS his calling as “a little peice of rock”?

Also I note that you appeal to scripture as your authority. I would like to know where you got the Bible you are using.
Petros in Greek means a little piece of rock, and petra in Greek means bedrock…two entirely different things. His calling as a little piece of rock was to be a part of the foundation along with the other apostles. Eph 2:20 “having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone.” It couldn’t possibly get any more lucid.
Moses started writing The Bible around 1450 BC. 2 Peter 1:20-21"knowing this that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by The Holy Ghost."
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ."
The Holy Bible was written by more than 40 human authors inspired by The Holy Spirit over a period of about 14 to 18 centuries.
That’s where I got The Bible that I am using.

God Bless,
Robert

1 Thess 5:21 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”

 
Except that Jesus didn’t speak Greek. In Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, he called Peter Cephas, which means Big Rock.

Check out the following scripture to verify…

John 1:42: He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, “So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter).
Jesus spoke Aramic, but The Bible wasn’t written in Aramic. So we go with the language it was written in. And translate from that language. If you buy an interlinear Greek-English Bible you can compare word for word. You can “test all things” for yourself.
Cephas means stone, not big rock. Jesus never called Peter a big stone or a big rock. The name Peter (or in Greek Petros) means a little piece of rock. It’s still a rock, just not a big one.
Who is the Rock? The Rock is Christ. The church is built upon Christ, not Peter.

God Bless,
Robert

1 Thess 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”

 
I am old enough (over 70) to remember the relationships between protestants and Catholics well before Vatican II. They were often non-existent. World War II came along and then Korea. Protestants and Catholics shared foxholes,barracks, and danger. We learned there were real people outside of our self imposed ghettos. It got very hard to continue to treat each other as some form of sub-human or vermin. One may blame it all on political correctness, but I think that most of us have learned that we have more in common than we have in opposition. Want to defend your Faith one- on- one, do it, but do so respectfully. Protestants do not consider converting when Catholics treat them like some sort of religous sub-human.🙂
Hear hear…!!!

Nobody EXPECTS to be converted, they are only “curious”.

…of course,… nobody EXPECTS the Spanish Inquisition, either!

(( Sorry,… destroyed the moment with a Monty Python flashback. War is HELL… ))

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
 
Jesus spoke Aramic, but The Bible wasn’t written in Aramic. So we go with the language it was written in. And translate from that language. If you buy an interlinear Greek-English Bible you can compare word for word. You can “test all things” for yourself.
Cephas means stone, not big rock. Jesus never called Peter a big stone or a big rock. The name Peter (or in Greek Petros) means a little piece of rock. It’s still a rock, just not a big one.
Who is the Rock? The Rock is Christ. The church is built upon Christ, not Peter.
God Bless,
Robert
But Cephas is Aramaic ! There was a big rock at Caesara Phillipi next to where they were standing and talking.

And besides, when Peter tried to walk on water, he…sank…like…a…rock…🙂
 
But Cephas is Aramaic ! There was a big rock at Caesara Phillipi next to where they were standing and talking.
Cephas is an Aramaic word which in Greek is Petros, which means a little piece of rock. That was Peter. Petra means bedrock, and that is Jesus, which is the Rock [Petra] which the church is built on.
Who is the Rock [Petra]? The Rock[Petra] is Christ. The church is built upon Christ, not Peter [Petros].
If you buy an interlinear-Greek translation, you can “Test all things” word for word yourself.

And besides, when Peter tried to walk on water, he…sank…like…a…rock…🙂

He sank when he took his eyes off Jesus. So keep your eyes on Jesus.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
**1.**The church Jesus instituted on Peter is the Catholic Church. Peter is our first bishop.
Interesting statement above, but consider the following:

Here are TEN solid, Biblical proofs that Peter was not at Rome. Mark each in your Bible and understand them well, so YOU will not be deceived.

THE PRIMACY of the Roman Catholic Church depends upon one fundamental doctrine: the claim that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome and the founder of the Roman Church.

The teaching of Catholic historians tells us that Simon Peter went to Rome at the same time as Simon Magus in order to thwart his evils. This was during the reign of Claudius. After successfully combating the Magus, they tell us, Peter assumed the Roman bishopric and ruled it until the Neronian persecutions of 68 A.D., during which Peter was supposed to have been crucified upside down on Vatican hill. This is the basic story and Catholic writers never shirk in attempting to defend it. Some of them say that this general account is one of the most provable of historical events.

But is it?

The fact remains, many ecclesiastical authors of the second century, Justin Martyr among them, give information completely negating Peter’s supposed Roman bishopric. This is admitted by virtually all scholars – except conservative Catholics (Ency. Biblica, col. 4554). But, more important than this, the records of the True Church of God – the writings of the New Testament – absolutely refute the Roman Catholic claim.

It is time that the world gets its eyes open to the truth of this matter – the truth, which is clearly revealed in the Word of God. The Apostle Peter was NEVER the Bishop of Rome!

The Bible Teaching
There are ten major New Testament proofs which completely disprove the claim that Peter was in Rome from the time of Claudius until Nero. These Biblical points speak for themselves and ANY ONE of them is sufficient to prove the ridiculousness of the Catholic claim. Notice what God tells us! The truth IS conclusive!

PROOF ONE: We should consider Christ’s commission to Peter. This is often very embarrassing to Catholics, because Christ commissioned Peter to become chief minister to the CIRCUMCISED, not to uncircumcised Gentiles.

“The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION was unto Peter; (For He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)” (Gal. 2:7-8).

Here we have it in the clearest of language. It was Paul, NOT Peter, who was commissioned to be the chief Apostle to the Gentiles. And who was it that wrote the Epistle to the ROMANS? It certainly WASN’T Peter!

“And when James, Cephas [Peter], and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace * that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision” (Gal. 2:9).

Paul further mentioned his special office as the Gentile Apostle in II Timothy 1:11: “Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.”

PETER is NOWHERE called the Apostle to the Gentiles! This precludes him from going to Rome to become the head of a Gentile community.

PROOF TWO: Paul specifically told the Gentile Romans that HE had been chosen to be their Apostle, not Peter.

“I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable” (Rom. 15:16).

How clear!

Paul had the direct charge from Christ in this matter. He even further relates in Romans 15:18 that it was Christ who had chosen him “to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed.”

PAUL Established Only TRUE Church at Rome
PROOF THREE: We are told by Paul himself that it was he – not Peter –who was going to officially found the Roman Church. “I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established” (Rom. 1:11).

Amazing! The Church at Rome had not been ESTABLISHED officially even by 55 or 56 A.D. However, the Catholics would have us believe that Peter had done this some ten years before – in the reign of Claudius. What nonsense! Of course you understand that NEITHER Peter nor Paul established the Catholic Church! But these proofs are given to illustrate that it is utterly impossible for PETER to have been in any way associated with ANY Church at Rome.

PROOF FOUR: We find Paul not only wanting to establish the Church at Rome, but he emphatically tells us that his policy was NEVER to build upon another man’s foundation. “Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, LEST I SHOULD BUILD UPON ANOTHER MAN’S FOUNDATION” (Rom. 15:20).

If Peter had “founded” the Roman Church some ten years before this statement, this represents a real affront to Peter. This statement alone is proof that Peter had never been in Rome before this time to “found” any church.

Peter Not in Rome
PROOF FIVE: At the end of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans he greets no fewer than 28 different individuals, but never mentions Peter once! See Romans 16 – read the whole chapter!

Remember, Paul greeted these people in 55 or 56 A.D. Why didn’t’t he mention Peter? – Peter simply wasn’t there!

PROOF SIX: Some four years after Paul wrote Romans, he was conveyed as a prisoner to Rome in order to stand trial before Caesar. When the Christian community in Rome heard of Paul’s arrival, they all went to meet him. “When THE brethren [of Rome] heard of us, they came to meet us” (Acts 28:15).

Again, there is not a single mention of Peter among them. This would have been extraordinary had Peter been in Rome, for Luke always mentions by name important Apostles in his narration of Acts. But he says nothing of Peter’s meeting with Paul.

Why? Because Peter was not in Rome!

PROOF SEVEN: When Paul finally arrived at Rome, the first thing he did was to summon “the chief of the Jews together” (Acts 28:17) to whom he “expounded and testified the kingdom of God” (Verse 23).

But what is amazing is that these chief Jewish elders claimed they knew very little even about the basic teachings of Christ. All they knew was that ‘‘as concerning this sect, we know that everywhere it is spoken against" (Verse 22). Then Paul began to explain to them the basic teachings of Christ on the Kingdom of God. Some believed – the majority didn’t’t.

Now, what does all this mean? It means that if Peter, who was himself a strongly partisan Jew, had been preaching constantly in Rome for 14 long years before this time, AND WAS STILL THERE – how could these Jewish leaders have known so little about even the basic truths of Christianity?

This again is clear proof Peter had not been in Rome prior to 59 A.D.

No Mention of Peter in Paul’s Letters
PROOF EIGHT: After the rejection of the Jewish elders, Paul remained in his own hired house for two years. During that time he wrote Epistles to the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Colossians, Philemon, and to the Hebrews. And while Paul mentions others as being in Rome during that period, he nowhere mentions Peter. The obvious reason is – the Apostle to the circumcision wasn’t there!

PROOF NINE: With the expiration of Paul’s two year’s imprisonment, he was released. But about four years later (near 65 A.D.), he was again sent back a prisoner to Rome. This time he had to appear before the throne of Caesar and was sentenced to die. Paul describes these circumstances at length in II Timothy.

In regard to his trial, notice what Paul said in II Timothy 4:16.

“At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men [in Rome] forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.”

This means, if we believe the Catholics, that Peter forsook Paul, for they tell us Peter was very much present at Rome during this time! Peter once denied Christ, but that was before he was converted. To believe that Peter was in Rome during Paul’s trial, is untenable!

PROOF TEN: The Apostle Paul distinctly informs us that Peter was not in Rome in 65 A.D. – even though Catholics say he was. Paul said: “Only Luke is with me” (II Tim. 4:11).

The truth becomes very plain. Paul wrote TO Rome; he had been IN Rome; and at the end wrote at least six epistles FROM Rome; and not only does he NEVER mention Peter, but at the last moment says: “Only Luke is with me.”

Peter, therefore, was never Bishop of Rome!

Where Was Peter?
Near 45 A.D., we find Peter being cast into prison at Jerusalem (Acts 12:3, 4). In 49 A.D., he was still in Jerusalem, this time attending the Jerusalem Council. About 51 A.D., he was in Antioch of Syria where he got into differences with Paul because he wouldn’t sit or eat with Gentiles.

Strange that the “Roman bishop” would have nothing to do with Gentiles in 51 A.D.!

Later in about 66 A.D., we find him in the city of Babylon among the Jews (I Pet. 5:13). Remember that Peter was the Apostle to the CIRCUMCISED. Why was he in Babylon? Because history shows that there were as many Jews in the Mesopotamian areas in Christ’s time as there were in Palestine. It is no wonder we find him in the East. Perhaps this is the reason why scholars say Peter’s writings are strongly Aramaic in flavor – the type of Aramaic spoken in Babylon. Why of course! Peter was used to their eastern dialect.

At the times the Catholics believe Peter was in Rome, the Bible clearly shows he was elsewhere. The evidence is abundant and conclusive. By Paying attention to God’s own words, no one need be deceived. Peter was NEVER the Bishop of Rome!

historicist.com/articles/simon_magus.htm*
 
Christ founded the Church on Peter and promised him that not even the gates of the Netherworld would prevail against it. that is one of the main reason i decided to convert to the Church. so why can’t/don’t Catholics speak out against other churches? to me, Protestants are calling Christ a liar by starting their own church since most claim that the Church fell into error or are teaching error. I could go to church with my baptist grandmother and the preacher will put down the Church all day long, but when i go to mass or even my RCIA class, they never mention the Protestants and won’t say that they are the ones in fact that are in error. they usually say something to the effect of “the body of Christ is broken enough.” or something like that if I bring it up. thanks.
Why not speak out against Protestants? Maybe, because they are your brothers and sisters in the Lord. No Christian should speak out against a fellow Christian in a negative way.
 
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