Why only Jesus?

[carol_marie]

Wrong. Any Christian church teaches that only Christians will go to Heaven and all others will burn in Hell. Are you saying the Baptists taught me that wrong? If so, great!

Yes, if that’s what you were taught, you were taught wrong.

God is merciful and would never send anyone to hell if they had never had the opportunity to know His Son. How would that be loving?

However, if someone knowingly rejects Jesus - well… that is different.

 

[Jedda]

Yes, if that’s what you were taught, you were taught wrong.

God is merciful and would never send anyone to hell if they had never had the opportunity to know His Son. How would that be loving?

However, if someone knowingly rejects Jesus - well… that is different.

But in knowing his son you would have to be Christian.

As for not knowing…then that would mean hell.

It seems like you are playing a semantics game?

 

[CherryBomb]

I don’t think anyone is trying to send you away, they’re just trying to answer your question.

Jesus said many times that He was God. I’m assuming you don’t have a Bible, so I’ll give you a link that has the Scriputre references to Jesus proclaiming Himself to be God. Not to run you off, just to keep from cluttering up this page. scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html (Part III, specifically, if you have a Bible you can look them up yourself, of course).

Catholics believe in baptism by desire, which includes non-Christians sincerely seeking God. Anyone who sincerely seeks God and isn’t a Christian will not be sent to Hell just for that. If you know that Jesus is Lord and reject Him, then you probably will go to Hell (but why would you want to go to Heaven anyway, if you believe but reject?) So your question doesn’t make sense, because the Church absolutely does not teach that people who sincerely believe in God but aren’t Christians will burn in Hell. Protestants might believe that, but Catholics don’t.

 

[kell0618]

Hello and welcome to CA Forums!

The questions you have asked cannot be summed up within one thread, no matter how simply it is all explained. You have come and asked for information that is contained in volumes of books, and were given great links to the exact information you are seeking. Much of the information is contained within the Bible as well as the Catechism of the Catholic Church (included in the links you were provided). Please also read the posting rules in regard to copying and pasting long quotes, and providing links. This is the Catholic Answers Forum and is part of the www.catholic.com website. The links provided were intended to give you the information you are seeking.

Please take the hand that is being extended to you and do not slap it away.

Peace be with you.

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (from Catechism) **
[846](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/846.htm’) How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
[848](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/848.htm’) "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[Parrot]

How are you being rejected? We are trying to share the faith with you… why don’t you want to read the excellent articles that have been provided? No one is sending you away from this website - that is just silly.

Here’s an idea: READ the article and then come back to this very thread and we can discuss it - answer more questions you may have - that sort of thing. Seriously, this is the way the forum works. We’ll be right here, waiting for you. OK?

I feel rejected because the web site “scborromeo” is (for all I know) some pornographic website. The articles referred to are possibly Church doctrine or may be some human idea of what the Church stands for or should stand for. I’d rather discuss this point with you folks and not get all mired in lengthy document of Catechism. I read part of it years ago and it starts with the assumption that (as you have said) all Catholics believe in Jesus and that He is the son of God and that all souls in heaven believe this.

What if I declared myself some prophet and allowed all souls that believed in God (by any name) and adhered to normally accepted tenants of human kindness toward one another would be allowed to be in God’s company in an afterlife? Would my declaration be any less valid that that of Jesus or the Church?

I don’t mean that as blasphemy, just an example to clarify my point. If you all profess to be Catholics, then you have all studied these documents. Can none of you justify your faith to me? Are you just sheep who have been brainwashed by some documents of the Church? Don’t get me wrong, I probably am more familiar with the teachings of the Catholic Church than you think, but my question today is really simple…

Why is Jesus the rock upon which your Church is built and how is that idea more valid than any other accepted religion? Many people in the world believe otherwise and even in my lowly state of being a human, I could do a better job than some God who restricted salvation to just a few I think. Are you SURE you are right? Humans have fought over this issue for hundreds of years and it seems you are all still not able to answer the question.

Convince me. Convince me you are right and I will profess the faith and join the Church, but treat me as a child and reject me and I will not. Wasn’t it said somewhere that people would enter the kingdom of Heaven as a child? If a child can do that, without being able to fully grasp the ideas put forth in some Church document, then can’t I?

Keep in mind that the Church is not documents. YOU are the Catholic Church.

 

[kell0618]

Your misunderstandings about what YOU think the Catholic Church teaches is a major stumbling block for a productive give and take conversation within this thread.

First off, PETER is the rock on which the Church was built; not Christ.

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 11 Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

from the Bible

 

[1ke]

Wrong. Any Christian church teaches that only Christians will go to Heaven and all others will burn in Hell. Are you saying the Baptists taught me that wrong? If so, great!

You asked about what the Catholic Church teaches. We have repeatedly told you that the Catholic Church does not teach this. We then provided documentation of that.

This may very well be what the Baptist church teaches. The Baptist church is not the Catholic Church.

I see no point in continuing to tell you the Catholic Church does not teach this, when you merely post back “wrong”. That is 3rd grade behavior.

 

[1ke]

I feel rejected because the web site “scborromeo” is (for all I know) some pornographic website.

Ok, I’m done with this thread.

 

[dmelosi]

Thank you but I do not wish to be rejected here and sent away to some other link on the web. This is “Catholic Answers” is it not? Why would the answers not be here?

This is what I refer to. If one is not Catholic, one is sent away. If one does not believe entirely what you believe, they are rejected. God does not treat me this way. why do you and why does the Church do this?

The links given are links on this site.

The Catholic Church does not say nor teach that anyone of any religion is damned.

Had just a minute to respond, but will be back.

 

[CherryBomb]

I think part of the problem with answering you is that you’re insisting on treating Catholicism as if it were Protestantism. It’s not. Yes, we are the Church, but the Church is also Tradition. We can’t divorce one from the other. That doesn’t make us brainwashed pawns of the Church, it makes us Catholics. If we didn’t believe in the authority and validity of the Church’s teachings, why would we be Catholic?

I’m just not sure how to answer you. You seem convinced that the Church condemns non-Christians, even though it’s been proven to you that she doesn’t. If you refuse to believe us, what’s the point in this thread? I’m not saying you have to agree with us, but if you’re just going to shoot down what we say…what’s the point?

Can none of you justify your faith to me?

This is another problem with answering you. No one can justify their faith to anyone. Faith can’t be quantified like that. Yes, part of my decision to convert came through study and application of logic, but a big part of it was Faith. I do believe that God worked in my heart and lead me. It’s not possible for me to convince you of my inner experiences and personal revelations. Either you trust that I’m truthful, even if you don’t agree with me, or you don’t. I can’t prove to you that God revealed Himself to me, it’s just not possible. I believe that God reveals Himself to everyone.

I’m sorry that you’re not getting the answers you want, I am, but I think you’re asking the wrong questions.

 

[dmelosi]

But when did Jesus say he was God?

and actually the church DOES say non believers/ non followers will go to hell.

No Jedda the Church does not.

 

[Jedda]

Dont know where I got that from but I have grown up believing that as does my catholic family???

 

[dmelosi]

Dont know where I got that from but I have grown up believing that as does my catholic family???

Many do grow up believing that. But one of the good things about studying the faith is that the more you understand, the more the pieces fall into place and on a human level…the more it makes common sense.

 

[Parrot]

First off, PETER is the rock on which the Church was built; not Christ.

from the Bible

Please don’t quote the Bible. The Bible (although a legitimate historical document) was written by humans. Actually by humans who followed the Jewish faith wasn’t it? Did I misread something along the line or was Jesus himself not a Jewish person? Now days, Jesus Himself would not be allowed to join the Church being Jewish??

You see how confusing it all is? God designed this world with incredible precision from mountains pushed up down to quarks holding atoms together. The path to be with God cannot be all that convoluted and there simply cannot be only small children, animals, and Christians in a place called Heaven.

Think of this way. If you are wrong and the Jewish people are right, then you AND the Jewish people will reside in Heaven. If you are right, then ONLY you will be there. From that perspective, which seems more God-like an idea? If I am right, you Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and anyone else who believes in God will be there. Is that such a horrible idea to you? Why?

As for Peter, Peter was a disciple of Christ and therefore believed that Christ was a God didn’t he? I am not convinced anything in the Bible can be taken as literal truth as it all is based on the premise that Christianity is the correct path to God. There are other texts from other religions that are held in just a high esteem I assure you.

I am not advocating any other religion, just asking (as I might ask on a Jewish or Islamic web forum) why do you believe what you believe? To say it is written in a document is not good enough an argument to me.

What I want you to do is to convince me Jesus is God. Can you do that on your own without the help of some documents written by others (even if they are sanctioned by the Church)? Does the Catholic Church allow you to even have an opinion that is not covered in those documents?

 

[RWMorris]

I feel rejected because the web site “scborromeo” is (for all I know) some pornographic website. The articles referred to are possibly Church doctrine or may be some human idea of what the Church stands for or should stand for. I’d rather discuss this point with you folks and not get all mired in lengthy document of Catechism. I read part of it years ago and it starts with the assumption that (as you have said) all Catholics believe in Jesus and that He is the son of God and that all souls in heaven believe this.

What if I declared myself some prophet and allowed all souls that believed in God (by any name) and adhered to normally accepted tenants of human kindness toward one another would be allowed to be in God’s company in an afterlife? Would my declaration be any less valid that that of Jesus or the Church?

I don’t mean that as blasphemy, just an example to clarify my point. If you all profess to be Catholics, then you have all studied these documents. Can none of you justify your faith to me? Are you just sheep who have been brainwashed by some documents of the Church? Don’t get me wrong, I probably am more familiar with the teachings of the Catholic Church than you think, but my question today is really simple…

Why is Jesus the rock upon which your Church is built and how is that idea more valid than any other accepted religion? Many people in the world believe otherwise and even in my lowly state of being a human, I could do a better job than some God who restricted salvation to just a few I think. Are you SURE you are right? Humans have fought over this issue for hundreds of years and it seems you are all still not able to answer the question.

Convince me. Convince me you are right and I will profess the faith and join the Church, but treat me as a child and reject me and I will not. Wasn’t it said somewhere that people would enter the kingdom of Heaven as a child? If a child can do that, without being able to fully grasp the ideas put forth in some Church document, then can’t I?

Keep in mind that the Church is not documents. YOU are the Catholic Church.

From the Catechism: The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, faithfully guards the “faith which was once for all delivered to the saints”. She guards the memory of Christ’s words; it is she who from generation to generation hands on the apostles’ confession of faith. As a mother who teaches her children to speak and so to understand and communicate, the Church our Mother teaches us the language of faith in order to introduce us to the understanding and the life of faith. CC171
You only need to trust as a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven…trust in Jesus and He will forgive your sins.
The Catholic Church teaches that not all will be exposed to the Faith, so God judges those people leniently. Our Church believes, however, that if a person has the understanding of Jesus Christ and His Church and then turns his/her back on the truth, then will that person lose out on salvation.
No one will reject you from the Church. Why do you think that? Also, you won’t be rejected for asking questions.
Additionally, Jesus Christ named Peter as the rock of the Church.
Do some study and research here at Catholic Answers and you will find answers to your questions.

 

[dmelosi]

The first question I have is do you believe in God?

 

[dmelosi]

You keep repeating that we teach that only Catholics will get into heaven. Are you not reading the comments on this or ignoring them? The Catholic church does not teach that Jewish people or any people will not go to heaven.

Please don’t quote the Bible. The Bible (although a legitimate historical document) was written by humans. Actually by humans who followed the Jewish faith wasn’t it? Did I misread something along the line or was Jesus himself not a Jewish person? Now days, Jesus Himself would not be allowed to join the Church being Jewish??

You see how confusing it all is? God designed this world with incredible precision from mountains pushed up down to quarks holding atoms together. The path to be with God cannot be all that convoluted and there simply cannot be only small children, animals, and Christians in a place called Heaven.

Think of this way. If you are wrong and the Jess people are right, then you AND the Jewish people will reside in Heaven. If you are right, then ONLY you will be there. From that prospective, which seems more God-like an idea? If I am right, you Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and anyone else who believes in God will be there. Is that such a horrible idea to you? Why?

As for Peter, Peter was a disciple of Christ and therefore believed that Christ was a God didn’t he? I am not convinced anything in the Bible can be taken as literal truth as it all is based on the premise that Christianity is the correct path to God. There are other texts from other religions that are held in just a high esteem I assure you.

I am not advocating any other religion, just asking (as I might ask on a Jewish or Islamic web forum) why do you believe what you believe? To say it is written in a document is not good enough an argument to me.

What I want you to do is to convince me Jesus is God. Can you do that on your own without the help of some documents written by others (even if they are sanctioned by the Church)? Does the Catholic Church allow you to even have an opinion that is not covered in those documents?

 

[CherryBomb]

It’s becoming more and more clear that you’re not listening to anything anyone has to say, and you aren’t truly interested in understanding. You keep insisting that “we Christians” think everyone who isn’t of our particular belief system is going to burn in Hell, and THAT IS NOT TRUE. For some Protestants? Sure. For Catholics? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Let me make that clear- THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT TEACH THAT NON-CHRISTIANS WILL GO TO HELL FOR BEING NON-CHRISTIANS.

Please don’t quote the Bible. The Bible (although a legitimate historical document) was written by humans.

This is an utterly absurd statement. It’s a legitimate historical document, yet we can’t quote from it? Are you serious?

So we can’t use the Bible to answer your questions, we can’t use any type of church document to answer your questions, and we can’t just tell you because then we’re not giving you proof.

Basically there’s no way to answer your questions.

 

[Parrot]

I think part of the problem with answering you is that you’re insisting on treating Catholicism as if it were Protestantism. It’s not. Yes, we are the Church, but the Church is also Tradition. We can’t divorce one from the other. That doesn’t make us brainwashed pawns of the Church, it makes us Catholics. If we didn’t believe in the authority and validity of the Church’s teachings, why would we be Catholic?

Finally an intelligent response! Okay now we are getting somewhere. I will go find out the differences between the two. Thank you for professing your faith. That (to me) is what it is all about. It is faith, not documents. This is what I am looking for… some assurance that it is all real. You won’t believe it, but it was God who sent me here. I asked for guidance and this is where I wound up. I am serious, but I won’t be sent away to read documents.

I have to tell you folks, but this user “Cherrybomb” is the first of you who displays what I (and I believe God himself) would call true faith.

 

[kell0618]

Finally an intelligent response! Okay now we are getting somewhere. I will go find out the differences between the two. Thank you for professing your faith. That (to me) is what it is all about. It is faith, not documents. This is what I am looking for… some assurance that it is all real. You won’t believe it, but it was God who sent me here. I asked for guidance and this is where I wound up. I am serious, but I won’t be sent away to read documents.

I have to tell you folks, but this user “Cherrybomb” is the first of you who displays what I (and I believe God himself) would call true faith.

Parrot, if I could make a copy of my soul so that you could look inside and see my faith, I would certainly send you one. It is all about faith yet you demand proof. I find your demeanor insulting and will no longer respond to you within this thread. Either you demand proof or you accept faith. Can’t have it both ways.:tsktsk: Nice way to introduce yourself to the board.