Why "practice" religion?

[rinnie]

I was raised Roman Catholic, became an Agnostic for maybe a year, then slowly became Pagan.

I never, ever, ever want to leave the Catholic Church again. I never, ever want to disobey God again.

I see the Catholic Church as the true Church of God, founded by Jesus Christ. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I am where I need to be now. The Church has a lot of rules, rules that come from God. I experienced a world full of people making up rules according to what they believed was moral. I don’t want to listen to PEOPLE. I want to listen to God. I am almost at the point of resentment towards everyone Atheist, Pagan or even Protestant that wants me to be anything but Catholic. In my eyes it makes them the same; bad influences that think they’re good.

Harsh but yeah. I only have one life to make the right decisions. I already wasted enough time with meddlers.

You are so right, life is so much about rules and obeying the word of God. Its not easy, and no one wants hard, they want to do what they want, not what God commands.

But when they realize as you have, that God has his reasons for what he does they will also come to see, that a world without God is a Dark ugly angry evil world.

Children do not want to obey thier parents either, then what happens? That is the same with us when we refuse to obey God.

Rules and commands are not make to hurt us, they are Gods written plan to help us get by in life everyday. Communion is our food that feeds our soul and keeps us with God.

 

[1voice]

This brings to mind a quote by Nathanial Branden:

“To practice the “virtue” of faith, one must be willing to suspend one’s sight and one’s judgment; one must be willing to live with the unintelligible, with that which cannot be conceptualized or integrated into the rest of one’s knowledge, and to induce a trance like illusion of understanding. One must be willing to repress one’s critical faculty and hold it as one’s guilt; one must be willing to drown any questions that rise in protest—to strangle any trust of reason convulsively seeking to assert its proper function as the protector of one’s life and cognitive integrity.”

That is not how faith works … at all.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

So, I’m back. I’m the OP. Trying to be open minded.

I went to a Adoration and knelt and prayed. I felt the same “euphoria” I felt when I was a practicing Catholic. But, it means nothing to me. I left after three minutes.The emotions could have been due to being in quite/clam place with pretty religious images and stained glassed windows. I don’t trust emotions that much, especially pertaining to religion. I just can’t get over the possibility that religion/spirituality is just some vestigial/from the past emotional need that humans can “overcome” per se.

These emotions might even be biased because I once was a fairly “devout” Catholic and my already existing knowledge of the religion! How am I supposed to discern reality from non-reality. I do not understand!!! I don’t want to be religious for emotional reasons.

I mean, if I was in Saudi Arabia, I might experience the same thing with Islam, but that doesn’t make Islam true. It’s thoughts like these that make me think religion/spiritual is just some sort of “byroduct” of human experience.

Even now I feel no desire for spiritual/divine/religious things. Perhaps that desire was just the result of being in a church?

And, if Catholicism is wrong, Christ isn’t really present in the Eucharist…the experience means nothing in the end…like failing an exam!

I want to be correct, that is all. Given all the religions that exist, it seems more probably that no religion is correct, rather than one of them. I can’t clearly explain why I think this…

 

[PathDiagnosis]

I don’t “see God” in nature, etc. Exploding stars, cancer cells I see every day…
Perhaps “Creation” is in the eye of beholder?

 

[PathDiagnosis]

And if I lived in a pre-Judeo Christian era I might have had the same 3 minute religious experience with something else…still doesn’t make it true.

 

[jmcrae]

I mean, if I was in Saudi Arabia, I might experience the same thing with Islam, but that doesn’t make Islam true. It’s thoughts like these that make me think religion/spiritual is just some sort of “byroduct” of human experience.

Islam is a false religion, but that doesn’t make a Muslim’s experience of God any less real - God is still real.

 

[samiam1611]

So, I’m back. I’m the OP. Trying to be open minded.

I went to a Adoration and knelt and prayed. I felt the same “euphoria” I felt when I was a practicing Catholic. But, it means nothing to me. I left after three minutes.The emotions could have been due to being in quite/clam place with pretty religious images and stained glassed windows. I don’t trust emotions that much, especially pertaining to religion. I just can’t get over the possibility that religion/spirituality is just some vestigial/from the past emotional need that humans can “overcome” per se.

These emotions might even be biased because I once was a fairly “devout” Catholic and my already existing knowledge of the religion! How am I supposed to discern reality from non-reality. I do not understand!!! I don’t want to be religious for emotional reasons.

I mean, if I was in Saudi Arabia, I might experience the same thing with Islam, but that doesn’t make Islam true. It’s thoughts like these that make me think religion/spiritual is just some sort of “byroduct” of human experience.

Even now I feel no desire for spiritual/divine/religious things. Perhaps that desire was just the result of being in a church?

And, if Catholicism is wrong, Christ isn’t really present in the Eucharist…the experience means nothing in the end…like failing an exam!

I want to be correct, that is all. Given all the religions that exist, it seems more probably that no religion is correct, rather than one of them. I can’t clearly explain why I think this…

Well I understand what you’re saying. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_inconsistent_revelations, maybe that will help you articulate your thoughts.

The existence of many conflicting religions is one of strongest points against theism in my opinion and certainly against organized religion.

Tell me more about this euphoria you felt. See, I think if I were to do something like that, I would feel silly. I’m quite sure I wouldn’t feel anything emotional at all, especially not such a strong emotion like euphoria. That sounds like a spiritual reaction to me.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

Well I understand what you’re saying. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_inconsistent_revelations, maybe that will help you articulate your thoughts.

The existence of many conflicting religions is one of strongest points against theism in my opinion.

Tell me more about this euphoria you felt. See, I think if I were to do something like that, I would feel silly. I’m quite sure I wouldn’t feel anything emotional at all, especially not such a strong emotion like euphoria.

I felt a little silly in the beginning and towards the end. I don’t mean silly in an insulting way.

I mean, if I took a statue of Ronald McDonald (the McDonalds guy) and did the same thing I wouldn’t be the same, because of I had no previous religious experience with McDonalds (don’t like their food either, I mostly make my own food).

 

[PathDiagnosis]

Well I understand what you’re saying. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_inconsistent_revelations, maybe that will help you articulate your thoughts.

The existence of many conflicting religions is one of strongest points against theism in my opinion.

Tell me more about this euphoria you felt. See, I think if I were to do something like that, I would feel silly. I’m quite sure I wouldn’t feel anything emotional at all, especially not such a strong emotion like euphoria. That sounds like a spiritual reaction to me.

I think this eurphoria I felt was identical to physiological responses to human affection, love for family members during the holidays, etc. It can all be explained with blood pressure, etc.

 

[MontChevalier]

Welcome back Path.

It really seems like you’re trying to convince yourself that God is something you can touch, but we’re talking about a being which no man, woman or child has seen, with the exception of Adam and Eve, and a few other people; Abraham, Moses and Jesus Christ, etc. (Could be literal, could be symbolic).

But the point of it all is that we may simple never know, until we look at the face of God. You can’t rationalize your way through everything. God knows that history has shown some rather illogical things that suddenly became logical, and it was simply accepted as thus. Take for example, the Merovingian Franks; your ancestors (?). This tribe, under Clovis I, had been contacted by the Catholic Priests of old. They were persuaded into belief of God, but Clovis answered,“We’ll believe but on one condition.”

“Name it.” The Priests said.

“At the hour of our most greatest need, your God will show us his power and save us.” And the Priests agreed to that.

A battle began with the Visigothic tribes to the south of France and the Franks were losing. It was in the thick of battle when one prayer saved the Franks, establishing today a part of what we see as France. Is it logical to assume that the Franks just won on their own? Or did the prayer help? We only have Chronicles to foretell what happened, but there are too many things in history that point out to many miraculous signs without the need for logic and reason. In the world of illogic and unreason, the Creator is the Master, and we are the slaves. Some of us don’t pretend to understand everything, but we know that life does have purpose and that there is a Creator pulling parts of the strings.

Whether you see that or not, is your choice. But, I can find many examples as to how it was God who led France to become what it is. And although the extreme atheism in France is disappointing, you have extreme faith in the past as well.

I hope you can note all of this.

-MontChevalier

 

[Incomplete]

I want to be correct, that is all. Given all the religions that exist, it seems more probably that no religion is correct, rather than one of them. I can’t clearly explain why I think this…

I’m glad you’re back.

It’s good to want to know the truth.

It’s also good not to base everything on emotions. But I would agree with another poster that there is no reason that a myriad of religions leads to the conclusion that no religion is correct. Either conclusion can be drawn from that.

You had mentioned some posts in the past that you will look more into. Keep us updated on your progress and questions while looking into those.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

I’m glad you’re back.

It’s good to want to know the truth.

It’s also good not to base everything on emotions. But I would agree with another poster that there is no reason that a myriad of religions leads to the conclusion that no religion is correct. Either conclusion can be drawn from that.

You had mentioned some posts in the past that you will look more into. Keep us updated on your progress and questions while looking into those.

Indeed. I find the “spirituality” section interesting. It’s helping me see why people are “spiritual”. This forum is very interesting. I’m not necessarily on a quest to become religious. If my intellectual interest in religion (learning outside this board) leads me to a relationship with God, so be it. If not, I tried.

 

[Incomplete]

Indeed. I find the “spirituality” section interesting. It’s helping me see why people are “spiritual”. This forum is very interesting. I’m not necessarily on a quest to become religious. If my intellectual interest in religion (learning outside this board) leads me to a relationship with God, so be it. If not, I tried.

I hope it does. Dare I say, I pray that it does. Just know you don’t have to be able to answer every question you have. Not knowing an answer does not mean God does not exists.

 

[1voice]

And if I lived in a pre-Judeo Christian era I might have had the same 3 minute religious experience with something else…still doesn’t make it true.

Think about it. You are dealing with an individual (if he in fact exists) that has a personality … and someone that makes the rules exactly as he chooses.
If he exists … then you are (by default) within his system.

Everyone has experiences. Not everyone experiences God. The God of the Bible said clearly and simply. “I exist … and I am the rewarder of those that seek me with all of their heart.”
The key to the dilemma is in that sentence. No amount of discussion will convince you unless God chooses to reveal himself… and he only reveals himself to those that honestly seek… and he knows the difference. That is the way it works.
… When it happens … believe me … you will know it in a way that no amount of logic or argument can take away. Its like … believing in God…

 

[rinnie]

:

I think this eurphoria I felt was identical to physiological responses to human affection, love for family members during the holidays, etc. It can all be explained with blood pressure, etc.

What you feel when you see and are with family members is much more then affection, it is Love, a free gift from God that if felt from within a result of his Grace.

Nothing is possible w/o God and nothing is Impossible with God.

If you truly want to experience God in your life you must become small. Like a child.

Let me give you an example. My Son decided after a million jobs and a college degree, and degree in mechanics he wants to be a Coal Miner He has now decided he wants to be the 4th generation Coal Miner.

So after now being at many jobs he knows how to enter the Job Market.

When he walked in he was not, HERE I AM, he was small. He was the little guy who was there to learn, to be taught, to listen, to obey. He has a full year to see if he can make the cut. I told him it is in God’s hands. EVERYTHING IS.

My Point, you cannot enter into the house of the Lord and say Here I am!! Prove to me something, make me feel, make me …

Just like my Son cannot go into the mine and begin to demand things from his boses.

To make the cut its gonna take work!! And he has to WANT it bad, It is the same with God, you don’t demand thing’s from God, you must do the work, Read the word of God.

You must start over again and at the beginning. Begin with a Catholic Study Bible. and trust me its gonna take at least ten years before you can even truly grasp what the true word of God means to you, and the reason it has to be, in your life.

Love cannot be explained with blood pressure, If that were the truth when your blood pressure were low you would feel no love Right??? When it was normal then what? No love either?

Love is a grace!! God is Love, and God is the whole meaning of this Life. He is the road that leads to the ultimate, THe I Am, the Perfect unending LOVE.

 

[Incomplete]

No amount of discussion will convince you unless God chooses to reveal himself… and he only reveals himself to those that honestly seek… and he knows the difference. That is the way it works.
… When it happens … believe me … you will know it in a way that no amount of logic or argument can take away. Its like … believing in God…

I would argue that point. I have known many who claim to be honestly seeking and don’t have some kind of religious experience. There are those I know who struggle with unbelief every day but choose to follow God as an act of will (for a variety of reasons). To me, those who follow without God revealing Himself in the way that you describe, those are people who truly follow the adage of showing their love by keeping His commands. The follow Him without any kind of “rewards” like what you just described.

To say that one who has not had that kind of experiencing is not truly seeking is to say we know who is seeking. But we cannot judge their hearts. We cannot know.

 

[rinnie]

Hello ‘Incomplete’.

I don’t think I lost touch with God because of Mass, but was feeling that all of these ‘rules’ were constricting me. I was not acting like myself anymore, and had just…well…lost myself. I really felt like I was just going thru the motions, and felt like a completely lost, drifting soul.

I know I am being guided gently back to him. I am feeling the urge to attend Mass this weekend, as I missed the first Sunday in Advent. This is a good thing. I think God has tried many, many times to nudge me in the right direction, he must just roll his eyes and get so sick of me , but he knows me, and I hope he understands my pain.

Everyone goes thru the motions at one time or another. I think its just because like many things in our lives we take for granted what is given to us. And we forget.

But Trust God, and keep going to Church. One day I can promise you this, you will walk out and say YES!! This is what I have been searching for, this is what its all about.

But it will happen when GOD feels you are ready, and probally when you can truly grasp and appreciate it.

But like the lottery it you don’t play you can’t win!

And PAIN!!! I think we both can Agree PAIN is something GOD can related to. On the Cross and OFF!!

 

[rinnie]

Indeed. I find the “spirituality” section interesting. It’s helping me see why people are “spiritual”. This forum is very interesting. I’m not necessarily on a quest to become religious. If my intellectual interest in religion (learning outside this board) leads me to a relationship with God, so be it. If not, I tried.

Path what do you consider being Religious?

 

[1voice]

I would argue that point.

To say that one who has not had that kind of experiencing is not truly seeking is to say we know who is seeking. But we cannot judge their hearts. We cannot know.

You’re putting words in my mouth. When did I say that? You are projecting your own point. Not mine.

My point is that seeking God is not a waste of time … it is a noble endeavor with an awesome reward. How you got what you said out of that … I cant figure.

… I said that there is an answer… the search is not futile because there really is a God on the other side of the equasion… and that (according to God’s promise that I cite above)
… God sees and rewards… and it is well worth the struggle.

Of course there are people in the midst of the search … by definition. That is what hope … and faith … are all about… God said (in the Gospel) that he does it this way in order to build character… not in order to tear people down.
The Bible is full of proof that God is approachable … and wants a relationship and makes himself totally available… God said clearly …
“I am the Good Shepherd; and I know and recognize My own, and My own know and recognize Me-- Even as [truly as] the Father knows Me and I also know the Father–and I am giving My [very own] life and laying it down on behalf of the sheep.” John 10:14-15

 

[Incomplete]

You’re putting words in my mouth. When did I say that? You are projecting your own point. Not mine.

My point is that seeking God is not a waste of time … it is a noble endeavor with an awesome reward. How you got what you said out of that … I cant figure.

… I said that there is an answer… the search is not futile because there really is a God on the other side of the equasion… and that (according to God’s promise that I cite above)
… God sees and rewards… and it is well worth the struggle.

Of course there are people in the midst of the search … by definition. That is what hope … and faith … are all about… God said (in the Gospel) that he does it this way in order to build character… not in order to tear people down.
The Bible is full of proof that God is approachable … and wants a relationship and makes himself totally available… God said clearly …
“I am the Good Shepherd; and I know and recognize My own, and My own know and recognize Me-- Even as [truly as] the Father knows Me and I also know the Father–and I am giving My [very own] life and laying it down on behalf of the sheep.” John 10:14-15

I did not put words in your mouth. I misinterpreted you. There’s a difference.

You said that God reveals himself only to those who honestly seek, and that He knows difference, and that’s the way it works. Then you talked about how when it happens, Path will know.

Putting that together, especially when you said “that’s the way it works” made me think you meant that people who honestly seek will have that kind of experience.

Obviously I took you wrong. My apologies.