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dmar198
Guest
It says they react though. Do you at least see that?
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tacdon
Guest
I’d have to see the verse again, but I believe it says the angels react, not the people in heaven.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Even if that’s the case, I’m sure you reject praying to angels too.
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tacdon
Guest
Yes I object to praying to angels. If you pray directly to Jesus then you know 100% that he hears your prayers. If you want other people on earth to pray for you too, then that is okay as well.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Can you show me verse that says Jesus hears our prayers in heaven?
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tacdon
Guest
I see what you’re doing, but its not the same thing.
Jesus is our high priest and mediator.
Hebrews 4:14
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.
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Filioque
Guest
Your appeal would have more weight if you had a verse which when read in context says that they do not hear our petitions. Since there are many which imply they do, can you produce one which says they definitively do not hear our petitions or know what our condition it.
(Hint) As Catholics we do hold that they do, only because God allows it, not by their own will. As in all things, it is God who is the final and ultimate arbitrator of all things.
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tacdon
Guest
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Jon_S_1
Guest
That doesn’t say that he can hear us, perhaps he just gives general petitions for us before God.
J
Jon_S_1
Guest
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tacdon
Guest
J
Jon_S_1
Guest
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Church_Militant
Guest
Not so. Look here at Hebrews 12; [1] And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:
The Intercession & Communion of Saints
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Church_Militant
Guest
A Jewish practice…not a Christian one.
Luke 1:[21] And after eight days were accomplished, that the child should be circumcised, his name was called JESUS, which was called by the angel, before he was conceived in the womb.
Except that we all can witness to the fact of many multitudes of answered prayers. No…we don’t take chances.
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Church_Militant
Guest
How do you know? Oh…you don’t do you? But you’re okay with trying to pass this teaching of men off on us?
That’s just not gonna work…
K
KP3243
Guest
Tobit is one of the seven books which Protestants omit from the Bible. But if you pay close attention, you’ll see that the New Testament proves Tobit to be prophetic. If you’re not familiar with the book, the short version is that the Archangel Raphael appears to Tobit disguised as a man. Eventually, he reveals himself in Tobit 12:15, saying,
“I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord.”
Three verses prior, he explained that, “I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayers before the Glory of the Lord.” This is prophetic in at least two ways:
Look to how Gabriel introduces himself in Luke 1:19. He begins:
“I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God.”
It’s a remarkably similar structure: the angel’s identity is defined by his standing before the Presence and Glory of the Lord. So Raphael is talking like an angel. But if this is uninspired Apocrypha, how would the writer know how angels described themselves? Tobit is the first example we have of this. It isn’t like the author of Tobit was just mimicking the Old Testament.
Raphael describes himself as one of seven angels ministering before the Lord. Nothing in Scripture up to this point says anything of the sort: Raphael is the first to reveal this. Yet the Book of Revelation affirms this: yes, there are seven angels who serve before the Throne of God (Revelation 8:2). Again, if Tobit is Apocrypha, how the heck did the author know the most intimate details about the Throne of God in Heaven, when they hadn’t been revealed previously?
“I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord.”
Three verses prior, he explained that, “I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayers before the Glory of the Lord.” This is prophetic in at least two ways:
Look to how Gabriel introduces himself in Luke 1:19. He begins:
“I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God.”
It’s a remarkably similar structure: the angel’s identity is defined by his standing before the Presence and Glory of the Lord. So Raphael is talking like an angel. But if this is uninspired Apocrypha, how would the writer know how angels described themselves? Tobit is the first example we have of this. It isn’t like the author of Tobit was just mimicking the Old Testament.
Raphael describes himself as one of seven angels ministering before the Lord. Nothing in Scripture up to this point says anything of the sort: Raphael is the first to reveal this. Yet the Book of Revelation affirms this: yes, there are seven angels who serve before the Throne of God (Revelation 8:2). Again, if Tobit is Apocrypha, how the heck did the author know the most intimate details about the Throne of God in Heaven, when they hadn’t been revealed previously?
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namer0331
Guest
I think the person who started this thread is looking for explicit word for word in the bible. But if that’s the case, then you will have to prove the canon of scriptures using the bible alone and that is not possible.
So many posters in the thread have proved ample of evidence for intercession of saints.
So many posters in the thread have proved ample of evidence for intercession of saints.
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SpeakKindly
Guest
Jesus indeed can handle our prayers, but sometimes we cannot handle our prayers first. Communication with the Saints is a way to not just join our prayers with their’s, it may help us when we have no real words to form for praying.
Instead of asking a Saint to ask God for something, we can also ask them to pray for us, without specifying the needs ourselves.
Look at the litany of Saints. It doesn’t say “Pray for…”, it just says “Pray for us.”.
Hope that helps.
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Razanir
Guest
No, no it’s not. You can get to TWO Divine Persons, the Father and the Son. But nowhere does it actually say the Holy Spirit is a third Person, as opposed to just being the spirit of God interacting with the universe.
Then shouldn’t you logically object to some psalms? For instance, look at Psalm 103:20
“Bless the Lord, O you his angels, / you mighty ones who do his word, / hearkening to the voice of his word!”
That would be praying to the angels, telling them to join you in praising the Lord.
(Although I currently really wish Luther hadn’t taken out the Song of the Three Children from Daniel 3. Otherwise I just would have used that)
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in_servitude
Guest
I have some questions, then.
What is the point of asking someone else to pray for you?
What is the point of praying for another person?
Does God desire that we pray for one another on Earth?
Is it selfish to restrict our prayers to one’s own intentions?
Do you expect that, God willing, once you are in Heaven after this journey on Earth, that you will pray for your loved ones? Will you pray for your grand children? And, their grand children?
My questions are about our God-given communal living conditions that have been created for us.
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