Why Protestants Reject the Deutero-canonical Books

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This subject has long fascinated me, but my knowledge is limited, so bear with me.

So if the deuterocanonicals come from the LXX, and Christ himself quoted the LXX, is it safe to say that today’s Catholic Bible translations use the LXX as opposed to the Masoretic OT? Isn’t the Vulgate translated from the Septuagint?
Yes, it is. It is conjecture that Jesus quoted from the LXX (consider, that there are several different LXX translations that existed at the time of Christ, so even if he quoted from it, we don’t know which one). However, it is a reasonable historical conjecture, given the region of Palestine in which he grew up and the mixed Jewish-Gentile culture of the area.

The Masoretic text is, at best, a very dubious translation of the OT. It has a lot of hidden translation agendas, especially when it comes to Messianic passages.
And secondly, maybe a little off topic but along the same lines, why does the Catholic church reject Septuagint books that Orthodox churches accept, like 3 Maccabees and Jubilees?
Because Catholics removed books from the Bibles, blarrgg!! Sorry, that was tongue in cheek.
 
My Orthodox Study Bible is tucked away in a Sterilite container as I’m moving… It contains the 151st Psalm and also the Prayer of Manasseh, which no Catholic Bible I know of does. The PoM was in an appendix in the Vulgate, as I recall.
 
My Orthodox Study Bible is tucked away in a Sterilite container as I’m moving… It contains the 151st Psalm and also the Prayer of Manasseh, which no Catholic Bible I know of does. The PoM was in an appendix in the Vulgate, as I recall.
That is because the Eastern churches used different copies of the LXX than most of the Western churches did. That is a simplistic answer, but is the best summary.
 
That is because the Eastern churches used different copies of the LXX than most of the Western churches did. That is a simplistic answer, but is the best summary.
You have to admit the Bible prior to Luther had some
interesting and informative stuff. Way more non canon
then now. Supposedly.

But it could include MORE if it wanted which I love:

Proto Evangelium of James. Wonderful.
Didache- Super special!
Dormition by John the Theologian- fabulous!
Epistles of Polycarp

One wonders if Bible Book inclusions have any dependency
on cost of printing?
 
You have to admit the Bible prior to Luther had some
interesting and informative stuff. Way more non canon
then now. Supposedly.
That’s true. Copies of the Vulgate had the Didache, Shepherd of Hermas and others, like the Gospel to the Hebrews, as late as the 9th century.
 
That’s true. Copies of the Vulgate had the Didache, Shepherd of Hermas and others, like the Gospel to the Hebrews, as late as the 9th century.
Hey maybe we should start a list of favorite missing
Bible books. (we could always have multitudinous
disclaimers: Bible Surgeon Warning: reading these books may prove
dangerous to ignorance. Perusal may cause joy to
pregnant women. We accept no responsibility for
their inspirational attributes.)
 
Hey maybe we should start a list of favorite missing
Bible books. (we could always have multitudinous
disclaimers: Bible Surgeon Warning: reading these books may prove
dangerous to ignorance. Perusal may cause joy to
pregnant women. We accept no responsibility for
their inspirational attributes.)
LOL.

The Didache. My only quibble with it, is that it’s description of the Eucharist is very general and a bit bland. Clement’s Epistle to the Corinthians, for sure.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzantineHeart
My Orthodox Study Bible is tucked away in a Sterilite container as I’m moving… It contains the 151st Psalm and also the Prayer of Manasseh, which no Catholic Bible I know of does. The PoM was in an appendix in the Vulgate, as I recall.
Aahhhh…I do not believe that is true. I believe my family Catholic Bible printed in 1958 does have the Prayer of Manasseh. I’ll double check to confirm it.
 
Hey maybe we should start a list of favorite missing
Bible books. (we could always have multitudinous
disclaimers: Bible Surgeon Warning: reading these books may prove
dangerous to ignorance. Perusal may cause joy to
pregnant women. We accept no responsibility for
their inspirational attributes.)
:rotfl: I like it.
 
Now to really blow everyone’s mind - instead of comparing West to “East”, really Latin to Byzantine, why not try a compare between West (as the Orientals would say, includes both the Romans and Byzantines) and East (Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians, Indians, Syriacs, and the Assyrians)?

How about the Peshitto, Alexandrian, and St.Mesrob Canons?
 
You have to admit the Bible prior to Luther had some
interesting and informative stuff. Way more non canon
then now. Supposedly.

But it could include MORE if it wanted which I love:

Proto Evangelium of James. Wonderful.
Didache- Super special!
Dormition by John the Theologian- fabulous!
Epistles of Polycarp

One wonders if Bible Book inclusions have any dependency
on cost of printing?
Hi marwarfield: One reason as to why those books you allude to are not part of the canon of the Catholic Church is due to their not adding anything new to what is already frouind in the 27 books of the NT. it is true that many of the early Churches used them but not all of the churches used them. often while some of those books were seemingly useful many were not accepted because it was not Apostolic or the author attributed to it was not really the author. Many were written by Gnostic authors and some were as what we today call religious fiction. At least that is my understanding from reading why the Church did not accept them as canonical.
 
marywarfield;11970460:
Because the term deuterocanon does not have to do with it being written in Greek. Gabriel made the claim that it is called deuterocanon because it was written in Greek as a second (deutero) language. That’s false. I am discussing etymology of terms here.
Per Crucem, it appears your knowledge of history has been tainted with Protestantism falsehood opinions.

You don’t read Catholic History that is recorded from Catholics who write during the time of the historical event do you? Your history has a bias twist to it that misinterprets history and leans to one side that makes an argument to the historical Truth. You don’t reveal true history here. Let’s be honest with each other here.

If you did, you would not jump to false conclusions of the Deutero’s as you do. You should not cheat yourself out of Truth by holding to bias opinions of history.

For now I will post from one of your own protestant view of Catholic history, from one who read Catholic history without a distorted and bias view.

Those unbiased scholars true to history record the many reasons why the Jews, Luther rejected and renamed the Deutero’s books one reason was they had no Hebrew counter parts.

Deutero never means a second canon, But I did not say Deuterocanonical when you
misinterpreted my post. Duetero reflects that only the 7 books in question were brought down to us in the second language of Greek, never by a second canon. The Catholic Church never had a second canon.

Tell me Per Crucem; are you one of those protestants who believe this false protestant opinion; "The Catholic Church has not always accepted the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha was not officially accepted by the Catholic Church at a universal council until 1546 at the Council of Trent. "

I would really love your reply if you falsely believe this lie in Protestantism?

Here is one of your own who attests to the fact;

The early Christian Church used the same Greek-language Scriptures as the Jews of the time (some of whom spoke no Hebrew), the so-called Septuagint, which consisted of the books of what we now call the Old Testament and the “Apocrypha,”[2] or Deuterocanonical Books.

In about 90 CE, the Jewish Canon of Scripture began to be finalized, and today it looks very much like the Protestant Christian “Old Testament.” The Jewish Canon seems to have centered around the so-called Masoretic Text, which is in Hebrew. **It is probable that books whose only extant editions were in Greek were considered less authentic; **however, more recent manuscript discoveries indicate that the Greek versions of certain canonical books may be closer to the originals, in some respects, than the Masoretic Text.

Nevertheless, Greek-language scriptures, including all books of the Septuagint as well as all of the Greek New Testament, constituted “Holy Scripture” for early Christians. [3]
wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/

This anti-catholic site bible.ca/catholic-apocrypha.htm has done their homework on only one here, why haven’t you?

2.Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.

Here’s a neutral source; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Hebrew_Bible_canon that list’s the criteria from the second century Jewish cannon of Jamnia; 1.The writing had to be composed in Hebrew.

In all fairness to you, I purposely did not list any Catholic sources here only those who have viewed an unbiased Christian history including anti-Catholics.

I am not trying to win an argument with you. Just trying to get your facts straight without prejudice views of Church history.

I can give you this; that there are many diverse reasons and opinions why the Deutero’s are questioned, one reason I listed was they had no Hebrew counterparts at the time to prove their authenticity, while the Catholic Church never moved away from the Deutero’s as being Inspired coming to us in the second language.

Peace be with you
 
I know that I have posted this before but will again do so. The term apocrypha that is used by Protestants to designate what Catholic’s call the Deuterocanonical books seems to be a misnomer since these books are not outside sacred Scripture nor are they hidden as the Greek word meaning hidden from the Greek apokryphos. Catholic’s call those books pretending to be from the biblical period and have not been accepted as genuine Scripture by the Church. If the books that Catholic’s call deuterocanonical are called the apocrypha by Protestants; at lest those of Jewish origin of which we now often called pseudepigrapha by Protestants.

The term apocrypha suggests that they deal with secrets or matters esoteric, whereas several of them are relatively unpretentious history. There is no hidden or secrets in the deuterocanonical books so the term used by Protestants is really unfounded and misleading.
 
Now to really blow everyone’s mind - instead of comparing West to “East”, really Latin to Byzantine, why not try a compare between West (as the Orientals would say, includes both the Romans and Byzantines) and East (Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians, Indians, Syriacs, and the Assyrians)?

How about the Peshitto, Alexandrian, and St.Mesrob Canons?
The subject of canon is really not that complicated; When one views the historical reasons of why the Canon= measuring standard and when it was applied.

After 400 years of persecution of the Catholic Church was lifted, the Church was able to council to settle the matter of the books to be used in each Apostolic Successor’s See that was being used in their Liturgies.

This is one of the main reasons why the books of the bible were canonized, to be used in Her Liturgy.

Each Ethnic group who were using their own books in Liturgy were considered already canonized by their own standards to be used in each one’s Liturgy. Are these authentic? Yes according to each one’s canon used in their Liturgy. Are they Universally canonized No.

But there is only one Universal Canon that all Catholics are to adhere to as the Canon of scripture, which the Church settled in council. Although many of the books came into question, the canon remained rock unchanged.

What proved a bible book as inspired? The canon consisted of proving the books authenticity by an apostolic author, and it had to be used in the Catholic Liturgy since apostolic times to the present. Pretty hard standards.

The Council of Trent never canonized the Deutero books. Trent only closed the existing canon so that the Deutero books are never to be questioned again period.

I believe it is the Orthodox who do not use the book of Revelations in their Liturgies, thus they may not recognize it as their canon in the Liturgy. But it never discounts or challenges the authenticity of the book of Revelations.

Liturgy simplifies each apostolic successors canon. Yet each Liturgy does not discount or challenge the universal canon of the Catholic Church.

Peace be with you

The
 
I know that I have posted this before but will again do so. The term apocrypha that is used by Protestants to designate what Catholic’s call the Deuterocanonical books seems to be a misnomer since these books are not outside sacred Scripture nor are they hidden as the Greek word meaning hidden from the Greek apokryphos. Catholic’s call those books pretending to be from the biblical period and have not been accepted as genuine Scripture by the Church. If the books that Catholic’s call deuterocanonical are called the apocrypha by Protestants; at lest those of Jewish origin of which we now often called pseudepigrapha by Protestants.

The term apocrypha suggests that they deal with secrets or matters esoteric, whereas several of them are relatively unpretentious history. There is no hidden or secrets in the deuterocanonical books so the term used by Protestants is really unfounded and misleading.
Yup! The term being applied to the Deutero-canonical books is used incorrectly. I too have read sources stating there is nothing secretive or hidden.
 
The subject of canon is really not that complicated; When one views the historical reasons of why the Canon= measuring standard and when it was applied.

After 400 years of persecution of the Catholic Church was lifted, the Church was able to council to settle the matter of the books to be used in each Apostolic Successor’s See that was being used in their Liturgies.

This is one of the main reasons why the books of the bible were canonized, to be used in Her Liturgy.

Each Ethnic group who were using their own books in Liturgy were considered already canonized by their own standards to be used in each one’s Liturgy. Are these authentic? Yes according to each one’s canon used in their Liturgy. Are they Universally canonized No.

But there is only one Universal Canon that all Catholics are to adhere to as the Canon of scripture, which the Church settled in council. Although many of the books came into question, the canon remained rock unchanged.

What proved a bible book as inspired? The canon consisted of proving the books authenticity by an apostolic author, and it had to be used in the Catholic Liturgy since apostolic times to the present. Pretty hard standards.

The Council of Trent never canonized the Deutero books. Trent only closed the existing canon so that the Deutero books are never to be questioned again period.

I believe it is the Orthodox who do not use the book of Revelations in their Liturgies, thus they may not recognize it as their canon in the Liturgy. But it never discounts or challenges the authenticity of the book of Revelations.

**Liturgy simplifies each apostolic successors canon. Yet each Liturgy does not discount or challenge the universal canon of the Catholic Church. **

Peace be with you

The
Not sure what the last sentence means in relation to this topic, my point is that all the varying Canons are equally valid, as long as they have Synodal approval by the Church. The Armenian Canon, used by Armenian Catholics and Orthodox alike; the Syriac Canon, used by Syriac Catholics, Chaldean Catholics, Maronite Catholics, Syro-Malankara Catholics, Syriac Orthodox, and Malankara Orthodox alike; etc. The varying Canons were never a point of contention within the Communion of Churches, even when they were different for each of the Churches - as long as Communion and unity of Faith were maintained.

I am not really sure what you mean by “Universal Canon”, they varied for each Church in the Catholic Communion, and still do to this day.
 
The subject of canon is really not that complicated; When one views the historical reasons of why the Canon= measuring standard and when it was applied.

After 400 years of persecution of the Catholic Church was lifted, the Church was able to council to settle the matter of the books to be used in each Apostolic Successor’s See that was being used in their Liturgies.

This is one of the main reasons why the books of the bible were canonized, to be used in Her Liturgy.

Each Ethnic group who were using their own books in Liturgy were considered already canonized by their own standards to be used in each one’s Liturgy. Are these authentic? Yes according to each one’s canon used in their Liturgy. Are they Universally canonized No.

But there is only one Universal Canon that all Catholics are to adhere to as the Canon of scripture, which the Church settled in council. Although many of the books came into question, the canon remained rock unchanged.

What proved a bible book as inspired? The canon consisted of proving the books authenticity by an apostolic author, and it had to be used in the Catholic Liturgy since apostolic times to the present. Pretty hard standards.

The Council of Trent never canonized the Deutero books. Trent only closed the existing canon so that the Deutero books are never to be questioned again period.

I believe it is the Orthodox who do not use the book of Revelations in their Liturgies, thus they may not recognize it as their canon in the Liturgy. But it never discounts or challenges the authenticity of the book of Revelations.

Liturgy simplifies each apostolic successors canon. Yet each Liturgy does not discount or challenge the universal canon of the Catholic Church.

Peace be with you

The
👍 good word

Something I have trouble coming to terms with, is why (from their own point of view) do Protestants accept or reject any of the books/epistles which the Church canonized?

Isn’t it true that Pope Damasus commissioned the ‘collecting’ or ‘bringing together’ the writtings in order to recognize which books had ‘universal’ authority and divine inspiration?

Then, after the Church under the authority of the pope’s comission and final say (not that he alone contributed to the task) had fullfilled this task of forming the ‘Bible’, Protestantism takes that Bible and uses it to teach against a unified Communion under the office which God used to form that Bible.

This is in no way a slight against Protestant devotion and genuine faith in Scripture, but a struggle to understand how Protestantism can come to the doctrines which contradict the authority that produced their ‘sole authority’ 🤷
 
Isn’t it true that Pope Damasus commissioned the ‘collecting’ or ‘bringing together’ the writtings in order to recognize which books had ‘universal’ authority and divine inspiration?
No, because the Council of Rome did not apply to any churches outside the Roman diocese. Hence why there was a need for Eastern councils after Rome to address the canon (and eventually ecumenical councils).
This is in no way a slight against Protestant devotion and genuine faith in Scripture, but a struggle to understand how Protestantism can come to the doctrines which contradict the authority that produced their ‘sole authority’ 🤷
The authority that produced Scripture is, in an ultimate sense, God. The Catholic Church acknowledges this. The CC does not accept the canon because the Church received it, but because the Spirit authored it.
 
No, because the Council of Rome did not apply to any churches outside the Roman diocese. Hence why there was a need for Eastern councils after Rome to address the canon (and eventually ecumenical councils).
No, Damasus did not commission the collection of Scripture to be recognized as Divine? Or No, The collection he approved of had no authority and it just was a coincidence that it is the same collection to this day???
The authority that produced Scripture is, in an ultimate sense, God. The Catholic Church acknowledges this. The CC does not accept the canon because the Church received it, but because the Spirit authored it.
Yes, the authority that revealed and authored Scripture is God Himself. The Church under Damasus contributed invaluably in forming what was to be held as highest authority concerning Divine Revelation.
 
Quote:
The authority that produced Scripture is, in an ultimate sense, God. The Catholic Church acknowledges this. The CC does not accept the canon because the Church received it, but because the Spirit authored it.
And how did it God do it? Through His bishops via His infallible church.
 
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