Why Radical Pro-Lifers Are Wasting Their Time

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Holly3278 said:
If this is true then this is just downright shocking. 52% of American Catholics believe abortion should be kept legal??? :mad:😦 Just how bad is the problem of cafeteria Catholicism???
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Based upon widely reported data, 75% of self-identified Catholics in America don’t go to Mass. In the 25% that does attend Mass, I expect half to less than half actually believe in the real presence and all of the major moral teachings of the Church.

With those numbers, I don’t find the 52% mentioned above shocking at all. Call me a cynic, but I am surprised it isn’t worse.

Here is the thing though, we need to stop analyzing the beliefs of the Catholic laity based upon those who don’t even practice their faith in any meaningful way. If the only time they are seen inside of a parish is to get hatched, matched, and dispatched, then they are incidentally Catholic at best. If they don’t even bother with those, then they are accidentally Catholic at best. Either way, they are hardly representative of what practicing Catholics do or do not accept in terms of Church teachings.
 
crystal_waters said:
I doubt 52% is a true total, unless they contacted every catholic in the usa and personally asked them then its likely not true
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Well I’m sure in the fine print it’s probably something like 52% with a +/- of 3-4% 4 out of 5 times (just guessing).

But you know what they say about statistics? They are right 110% of the time 😃
 
clem456 said:
This is exactly what I am getting at.

They’re not children, but they’re still people?
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I need to comment on this statement. This is were the track becomes very slippery, you are headed for a train wreck. From conception to the time we die and hopefully join our Lord, we are human beings. From the moment of conception we are a very unique individual with our own DNA, and soul, at no time are we tissue, or flesh of our parents. We are no less human at conception then we are at death. We are only at differing stages of development and life… Is an infant in the womb any less human and in need of care and love than a child in a hospital nursery or an adult in an alzheimer’s ward. We are all Gods children, from conception to death. We at all stages need care and Love.
 
clem456 said:
How can it be that the same folks who are rightly outraged about the deaths of 20 children in Newtown don’t blink an eye at the death of 10’s of millions through abortion?

Can someone explain the thought process going on there?
I guess unborns are not human persons?
They are possessions until born? Kinda like slaves?
They don’t exist because we can’t see them?
What?
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The essential false idea is that women have the right to choose what happens when they get pregnant. In those cases where consent is involved, young women were taught about sex but nothing about relationships. So, if the husband or boyfriend encourages them or coerces them, it may influence their decision. If the husband or boyfriend disappears. No biggie. He’s off the hook. The irrational part? The woman did not get pregnant by herself but it’s always phrased as “a woman’s right to choose.” The man becomes a non-entity.

Some will argue that the unborn are not persons, but they most certainly are unique human beings. Leaving religion out of the question, if a woman realizes she’s pregnant, she is having (A) a meaningless blob of tissue growing in her body, (B) it may be human once the brain develops to a certain point, (C) it is a human being and she is afraid to have the baby born.

Oh yes, we can see them in an ultrasound.

Do you want to know how we were deceived and lied to to get from 1973 to the present? It’s all here:

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/abortion/articles-and-addresses/an-ex-abortionist-speaks/

And Jane Roe of Roe v Wade, what happened to her?

youtube.com/watch?v=T_MUUvcvjEg

The Supreme Court made the biggest mistake of the 20th Century by allowing for the murder of millions. The radical, Marxist, feminist, National Organization for Women betrayed women. Propaganda, not truth, won the day in 1973, but things are changing.

www.now.org/

Peace,
Ed
 
Holly3278 said:
NOTE: That is not my title, it is the title of the article.

Now, for a quotation from the article:

Read more: ideas.time.com/2011/11/17/why-radical-pro-lifers-are-wasting-their-time/#ixzz2Gw0VyMUE

If this is true then this is just downright shocking. 52% of American Catholics believe abortion should be kept legal??? :mad:😦 Just how bad is the problem of cafeteria Catholicism???
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The Prolife movement is aimed at converting nominal Catholics just as much as it on everyone else 👍
 
brumano said:
The thought process here and present is diabolical. Read Jn.c7v44.
They know full well that the unborn are innocent human beings; and they have known it all along.
The unborn are the weakest,poorest, most defenseless of all humanity; they have no money, no voice, no vote, no power of their own of anykind. So they are the favorite victim of the merciless killer.
All the unborn have is the one thing that’s best to have: God. And He surely has them.
There’s no point in wondering or asking what these people are thinking about; how they have killed so many, they do it because they want to and they profit from it.
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Amen, Preach it! 👍

We need to pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, for ourselves, for nominal Catholics, and for everyone else.
 
Consider for a moment how pollsters determine who is catholic. Most likely there is a question in the poll asking them their religion. Lapsed catholics who haven’t been in church in months, haven’t gone to confession in decades and don’t spend even 5 seconds a week learning about their faith are treated the same in these polls as actively believing catholics are.

Considering that well under half of any given group of people that self identify as catholic in most areas even attend mass weekly, is is surpising that so many have just gone along with the culture at large?

If you narrowed the poll to eliminate all nominal catholics who haven’t bothered going to confession even once this year, you’d find better than 90% pro-life in the remainder, IMO. Seriously, if they aren’t bothering to get their sins forgiven who cares what they think?
 
Unfortunately even accounting that a significant portion of that percentile is from lapsed or non-practicing Catholics, it would only strengthen the argument they’re making.
 
Catholics need to understand that Jesus became man at the point of incarnation. The author of the article self-identifies as Catholic, and states his doubt about personhood before becoming sentient with brain & pain centers. Yet the rights of man as a brother in Christ starts at every persons incarnation. To those Catholics who have difficulty with this concept, one needs to think of Mark 8:33 - "At this he turned around and, looking at his disciples, rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.” The point of incarnation is very closely linked to the point of consecration in the celebration of the Eucharist. Catholics, in particular, have no wiggle room about the rights of man from the point of incarnation (first made flesh) versus the point of sentience argument.
 
In another forum I was debating a feminist. She was complaining that some people call black women useless breeders creating burdens to society and other people insensitively calling what is happening to black children genocide. I responded by bringing her attention to Malthusian philosophy and eugenics, stating that if the unborn ARE people is is only logical that it IS genocide and further pointing out that people like Margret Sander did encourage abortion by appealing to economic prosperity so she could bring forth genocide.

The people in that forum was so pissed off that they ignore my logic. Logic and reason seems to mean nothing to most people. Merely going around with the evils of society for the sake of false peace is the status quo. To stand up against injustice is to be extremist. 🤷
 
InJesusItrust said:
In another forum I was debating a feminist. She was complaining that some people call black women useless breeders creating burdens to society and other people insensitively calling what is happening to black children genocide. I responded by bringing her attention to Malthusian philosophy and eugenics, stating that if the unborn ARE people is is only logical that it IS genocide and further pointing out that people like Margret Sander did encourage abortion by appealing to economic prosperity so she could bring forth genocide.

The people in that forum were so pissed off that they ignore my logic. Logic and reason seems to mean nothing to most people. Merely going around with the evils of society for the sake of false peace is the status quo. To stand up against injustice is to be extremist. 🤷
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InJesusItrust said:
In another forum I was debating a feminist. She was complaining that some people call black women useless breeders creating burdens to society and other people insensitively calling what is happening to black children genocide. I responded by bringing her attention to Malthusian philosophy and eugenics, stating that if the unborn ARE people is is only logical that it IS genocide and further pointing out that people like Margret Sander did encourage abortion by appealing to economic prosperity so she could bring forth genocide.

The people in that forum were so pissed off that they ignore my logic. Logic and reason seems to mean nothing to most people. Merely going around with the evils of society for the sake of false peace is the status quo. To stand up against injustice is to be extremist.
🤷
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Pro-choice does have logic & reason, but is based on a premise that is incompatible with Christianity. The premise is the man is just a higher ordered animal, but not a “sacred” animal. Pro-choice, in fact, is concerned with good breeding in the sense of good animal husbandry. It looks at the health of the man-animal, the environment that it will be subjected, and all the factors relating to a good quality of life for the baby, mother, & society. It is wildlife management. In a sense, Pro-choice takes on the mantle of being “good breeders”. What we have is an SPCA mentality.

Christians, and Catholics in particular who hold that man is a sacred animal apart from all others in that man is made in the image & likeness of God, are considered “bad breeders”. Our premise is based on our belief in Jesus Christ and the value that He himself places on mankind - enough to die a horrible death on a cross. And that value is based on Jesus becoming our brother. Now what point in Jesus’ life would man consider His life to be subject to forfeit at the hands of His mother or society. And if we are his brothers, at what point are our lives subject to forfeit at the hands of our mothers or society. Our premise is different, but it too is based on logic & reason proceeding from a different premise. People of other religions may also share our belief in man as sacred based on similar beliefs in the value that God places on man, but Christianity has a personal stake in this argument in the name of Jesus, our God & brother.

Who is radical when it comes to human life issues depends entirely on where one stands on their belief about the value of man as sacred in the eyes of an Almighty Father.
 
Anyone who has done any modicum of research on Margaret Sander knows that she desired to wipe out blacks. The very ones calling them useless breeders are the ones offering economic salvation through abortion. Is it really hard to see that the genocide is being hidden under rhetoric about “choice” and Malthusian ideology? Choice to do what? Kill people of course!

The problem is the really wealthy people with influence and power want to lower the population of the world–think about the billionaire club and their hCG vaccines to poor nations. Of course the media will be pro-abortion. Who owns it? They influence the culture. Pro-Choicers cannot see how they are being manipulated, even if plain reason points it out.
 
InJesusItrust said:
Anyone who has done any modicum of research on Margaret Sander knows that she desired to wipe out blacks. The very ones calling them useless breeders are the ones offering economic salvation through abortion. Is it really hard to see that the genocide is being hidden under rhetoric about “choice” and Malthusian ideology? Choice to do what? Kill people of course!

The problem is the really wealthy people with influence and power want to lower the population of the world–think about the billionaire club and their hCG vaccines to poor nations. Of course the media will be pro-abortion. Who owns it? They influence the culture. Pro-Choicers cannot see how they are being manipulated, even if plain reason points it out.
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Yep. MAAFA 21 !
 
Mimi said:
Clem,

IMO, it is a problem of “out of sight - out of mind”.
Sadly, some people can put on moral blinders and ignore the humanity of the unborn.
Also, people don’t like to think about the fact that s/he was once at that stage of development; that would bring home the reality of the human person & the continuity of Life.

I would dearly love to see the day when a channel like MTV shows some kind of ads of weeks old fetus with heart beating; statement underneath: heartbeats detectable as early as 16 days from conception. Perhaps teen mom is studying, then shown partying, blissfully unaware of the life developing inside her. This followed by a few seconds showing of a photo of a slightly older fetus, and so on, until the baby is fully developed. The concluding statement: When does this human being become a person? Can you tell? Or something like that. Something - ANYTHING to get young ppl who are immersed in a video culture to THINK about the reality that this is a Human Being from the moment of conception and thus worthy of protection.

Also, most students are not grounded in philosophy of any kind. I don’t know how to fix that except to keep encouraging ppl to Think. And we need priests who will expound these facts from the pulpit, unafraid of the possible backlash. Truth is more important than making friends w all of your parishioners. We never hear about the evils of contraception and abortion in homilies here.

Happy New Year,
Mimi
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Perhaps if all the money that was wasted trying to elect “pro-life” politicians for the last 40 years had been used in this way, more abortion clinics would have gone out of business for lack of demand.

Edwest is not the only poster here who has lived through the entire 40 year period from Roe v Wade to the present. From the very beginning, the MAIN focus on abortion was on creating a legal solution. Yes, there were many of us who tried working the problem in other ways-with organizations such as Birthright, and trying to educate young people about human development. However, the bulk of the energy and money went to changing the law.

What if something was legal, but nobody cared because they didn’t want to use it? Would it matter that it was legal?
 
Seeker1961 said:
Perhaps if all the money that was wasted trying to elect “pro-life” politicians for the last 40 years had been used in this way, more abortion clinics would have gone out of business for lack of demand.

Edwest is not the only poster here who has lived through the entire 40 year period from Roe v Wade to the present. From the very beginning, the MAIN focus on abortion was on creating a legal solution. Yes, there were many of us who tried working the problem in other ways-with organizations such as Birthright, and trying to educate young people about human development. However, the bulk of the energy and money went to changing the law.

What if something was legal, but nobody cared because they didn’t want to use it? Would it matter that it was legal?
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lifenews.com/2013/01/21/report-1500-abortion-clinics-have-closed-since-1991

1500 abortion clinics have closed since 1991

spa.sagepub.com/content/11/1/28.short

Review of abortion data from 1985 to 2005 by Michael J New in peer reviewed State Politics and Policy Quarterly, found that laws restricting abortion
have an impact on the childbearing desicions of women
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And are a factor in the decline of abortions

Who has appointed abortion restriction laws? Pro life politicians. Thanks to electing them abortion restriction laws have been made law and are reducing the abortion rate, so abortion clinics are losing business and lives are being saved
 
I disagree about the “pro life” politicians being the ones that created change. People did. People whose minds have been changed. If there was no political gain to be made by passing abortion restrictions we wouldn’t have any. EDUCATION is what is working. People’s MINDS are being changed due to those who have devoted their energy to teach human development, to the advancement in ultrasound technology and science.

If we had focused on that 40 years ago, we wouldn’t have needed the politicians. People would have CHOSEN life, which is what is starting to happen now.

Is there any difference between a life saved by choice and a life saved by law?
 
Seeker1961 said:
I disagree about the “pro life” politicians being the ones that created change. People did. People whose minds have been changed. If there was no political gain to be made by passing abortion restrictions we wouldn’t have any. EDUCATION is what is working. People’s MINDS are being changed due to those who have devoted their energy to teach human development, to the advancement in ultrasound technology and science.

If we had focused on that 40 years ago, we wouldn’t have needed the politicians. People would have CHOSEN life, which is what is starting to happen now.

Is there any difference between a life saved by choice and a life saved by law?
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This argument is as specious as suggesting that we wouldn’t need a deer hunting season if we could just get everybody to watch the movie Bambi.
 
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