Why Should a Mormon Become Catholic?

[KathleenGee]

Gazelam…

You hold on to a thought from someone who makes claim that he has experienced something no one else has…I take it to be Mormonism?

I think the Apostles witnessed far greater events: Being chosen by Jesus Christ Himself, learning from Him, witnessing His power in miracles and healings, His words that penetrate our hearts that make us look at who we are not, but Who God is, and how He is calling us to repent and enter into His life in the Word and Sacraments.

Three apostles witnessed Christ’s Transfiguration, one witnessed His crucifixion. All except Judas Iscariot encountered the Resurrected Lord. The Twelve received the power of the Holy Spirit and thus the Church began at Pentecost.

The Holy Spirit works through the successors of the Apostles.

We receive the Eucharist, the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Resurrected and Glorified Lord in heaven. He is the same as He Who led the Jews out of Egypt, became the Pillar of Fire and parted the Red Sea,…this is the God we receive at Mass.

As Socrates said, ‘There is nothing new under the sun’…and the the death and resurrection of the Lord, the symbol of the sun is now the Rising Christ Who comes to us at the dawn of each new day.

 

[RebeccaJ]

LW7, I see a lot of handwringing over novelty. From the CCC:

God has said everything in his Word

65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.

 

[Becca3]

Hi LW, God didn’t set his church up to fail, what would have been the point of Christ’s work. Trust Him, his church is here, it may not be perfect but its foundation is on the authority conferred by Christ to Peter and the apostles. The church was organised with that authority. Trust the ‘pull’, I did and do not regret it. I can’t explain it, it goes beyond words, it is not a burning in the bosom thing, I just went into a church, and He was there, THEN I started to learn, it was 2 years later that i was finally confirmed. I got to know God through the Sacred Scriptures without the Mormon spin, and my walk continues. When the priest during mass holds up the host and cup and asks us to behold the Lamb of God, I can’t describe my feelings, joy is the closest, but it is more profound than that, at that moment my soul is in total communion, there is an at-oneness, at-onement, knowing I am totally accepted by him, and my joy is in knowing that God did this for us so that we can be in communion with him, that Christ’s atoning work has enabled us to boldy approach the throne of Grace and never be turned away.
I never knew joy in Christ as LDS, I suspect this is your experience too

That is exactly what I am going thru now. I am slowly coming into the Catholic Church and experiencing Mass and not with that burning in the bosom thing either. I can feel Christ there too. I am learning now. I had trouble obtaining joy in the LDS church too. I was always lonely. Even their ‘sacraments’ didn’t have the Real Presence of Christ in it. You couldn’t have said it better! Your post was lovely!

 

[Miriam1947]

Why Should a Mormon Become Catholic? or: Especially a Catholic who became Mormon?

So I hesitated posting this thread, but thought, what the heck.

For the past few days, I’ve been really feeling a “pull” towards just getting up, going to the local parish, going to Confession/Reconciliation, repenting, and becoming Catholic again. snip…

You gave up the Eucharist for a prisoner’s meal of bread and water. You gave up the first Church of Christ founded in 33 AD at Pentecost for a church founded by a not so wonderful person (can we say convicted criminal and polygamist?) And who even knows which of his visions were true if any were at all?

Give up the prisoner’s meal. Come back to the Eucharist for the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

And that is why a Catholic who became Mormon should return.

Love you,

Miriam

Edit to add:

Listen to the pull you are feeling. Come home. It’s very beautiful here.

 

[Miriam1947]

That is exactly what I am going thru now. I am slowly coming into the Catholic Church and experiencing Mass and not with that burning in the bosom thing either. I can feel Christ there too. I am learning now. I had trouble obtaining joy in the LDS church too. I was always lonely. Even their ‘sacraments’ didn’t have the Real Presence of Christ in it. You couldn’t have said it better! Your post was lovely!

Becca, I hope and pray that you come into the Church. It’s wonderful here.

 

[KathleenGee]

The core difference between Mormonism and Catholicism is that in Mormonism you seek to be exalted.

In Catholicism, you encounter Christ, and to live eternally, you must die to yourself – every day, and put on the New Man, Jesus Christ.

Mary of Carmel, Mary Star of the Sea, was the first title given to Mary in the Church, as the North Star to guide us to our destination to Jesus Christ, symbolized in the sun.

Jesus chose to be born in the Constellation of the Ram, fulfilling Abraham’s sacrifice of the ram stuck in the bush, pointed out by Angel Gabriel, instead of sacrificing his own son, Isaac.

Through Jesus Christ, the Living Word, all things are made new.

 

[Becca3]

The core difference between Mormonism and Catholicism is that in Mormonism you seek to be exalted.

In Catholicism, you encounter Christ, and to live eternally, you must die to yourself – every day, and put on the New Man, Jesus Christ.

Mary of Carmel, Mary Star of the Sea, was the first title given to Mary in the Church, as the North Star to guide us to our destination to Jesus Christ, symbolized in the sun.

Jesus chose to be born in the Constellation of the Ram, fulfilling Abraham’s sacrifice of the ram stuck in the bush, pointed out by Angel Gabriel, instead of sacrificing his own son, Isaac.

Through Jesus Christ, the Living Word, all things are made new.

Huh?? Are you talking about astrology?? How do you know all this?? I never knew Jesus chose to be born in a certain constellation? Do we have that choice too before we came to earth??

 

[PJM]

=LivingWaters7;10926470]So I hesitated posting this thread, but thought, what the heck.

For the past few days, I’ve been really feeling a “pull” towards just getting up, going to the local parish, going to Confession/Reconciliation, repenting, and becoming Catholic again. Seeing all of my Scott Hahn books on the shelf isn’t helping either (especially his latest, Consuming the Word: The New Testament and the Eucharist in the Early Church, which is fantastic). I dunno, it might happen soon…

Anyway, many Mormons have misconceptions about the Catholic Church, its doctrines, history, and practices. Many also find great comfort in certain LDS beliefs, such as:

-temples and eternal families
-prophets, revelation from God to man (including personal revelation), church guided by revelation, Heaven not being “closed” (in their view)
-apostles, priesthood
-“one true church”

So, the point of this thread is to talk about what is it about Catholicism that should cause Mormons to pause, get out of their comfort zone, and look at the Catholic Church? Both churches claim to be the One True Church. They both can’t be right (maybe both are wrong! but we’ll skip that). Many Mormons are familiar with a story (I’m giving this off the top of my head) of how a Catholic (maybe it was a priest) said to a Mormon that either the LDS Church is right (and that a restoration of Christ’s Church was needed) or the Catholic Church is right (and Christ’s Church continues to exist since He established it, never needing a restoration). Various LDS apologetic books include that story, then go on to investigate the LDS viewpoint. This thread is therefore about the Catholic viewpoint, whether it’s about the apostasy (or lack thereof), specific doctrines (including the nature of God), sacraments, etc. Why should a Mormon look at a Catholicism, and go so far as to convert, especially when they find comfort and really believe the things I listed above?

Let’s keep it civil (and no “because it’s true” or “because Joseph Smith was a liar and a charlatan”), especially for the LDS lurkers that may be curious!

You seem rational

So carefully AND prayerfully consider this reality

There is only One God

One God can [and clearly does] have ONLY One Faith

And God [Yahweh in the OT-the Jewish nation]; and Christ in the New Testament [the Catholic Church] have always, exclusively chosen only "One Chosen people: today CC.

These passages prove this fact biblically:
Mt. 10:1-8
Mt. 16:15-19
Mt. 18:18 [extended to all the Apostles THROUGH Peter]
John 14:16-17
John 20:21-22
John 17:14-20
Mark 16: 14-15
& Mt. 28:16-20

TAKE NOTE OF THE FACT that each passage is Christ and the Apostles directly and exclusively

In Mk 16 and Mt. 28 Jesus changes His Mandate to them from “the Jews ALONE” to “the Entire World”

This is shortly before His return back to heaven
AND EFFECTIVELY institutes Papal Succession in order to complete and fulfill cf. “YOU GO and TEACH everything that I taught to YOU, to the Entire World.”

One God; One Faith and Only One true Church; today’s Catholic Church:thumbsup:

 

[KathleenGee]

NO I am not talking about astrology. That is pagan idolatry.

Jesus is the Living Word of God through Whom the universe was made. Ancient men could perceive the One True God Who created man with free will and intellect through reason and observation of nature.

In ancient times, civilizations had tools to measure distance, weights. Navigators used the North Star to help them on their journeys. Constellations in the skies had their own names, these names held in common by many peoples that to this day we continue to use the same names of the stars in the skies.

It is Catholic belief that the entire universe was anticipating the coming of the Savior. And Jesus chose the time to be born. It is said in Acts that even the Apostles believe they were chosen before they came into existence. (And this implies as well how much we are to listen to the apostles and the tradition of faith passed down from them, and not to anyone else.)

Ancient Christian altars faced east towards the rising sun, the beginning of a new day in the Lord, that direction representing the coming of Christ, the Risen Lord. Christ’s eternal forgiveness is always with us, always refreshing and renewing us.

Mary full of grace…Her Jewish name was Miriam. But after Christ’s death and resurrection, Miriam, which meant bitter, is now renamed by the Church as Maria, Latin, Mare…the sea…Maria, feminine representing the fullness of grace in Christ, now the Mother of the Church. Mary Star of the Sea, full of grace, praying for us.

The most ancient titles of Mary were Mary Theotokos…Mother of God and Maris Stella…Star of the Sea.

The ancient Brothers of Mary as they called themselves, were former Christian Crusaders who fought the Saracen in the Holy Land. They went up to the hills of Mt Carmel to see the Fountain of Elijah from the Old Testament. There they decided to form a hermitage at the Wadi el Sadai…my spelling is off here…but built a primitive monastery, and called themselves the Brothers of Mary. With Mary they spent all their time, as did Elijah, in honoring and contemplating the Lord through Sacred Scriptures.

LivingWaters came to someone who honors Mary of Carmel and wears the Brown Scapular. Many of us on CAF wear the Brown Scapular of Mary, dedicated to be with her on our walk in climbing the Moutain of the Lord as our companion seeking His will and praising Him in our daily lives and with Mary, living a life here on earth in response to the Gospel, to die daily to self and begin again in the life of Christ.

Hope this explains it better. I am also drawing on the teachings of Pope Benedict when he was called Cardinal Ratzinger in his writing, ‘Spirit of the LIturgy’.

 

[KathleenGee]

Saw the comment…we have a choice…

Jesus chose when He was to arrive…and He chose the time that would not only speak to the people of faith who came to believe in Him, but to those living in those times, and to all humanity.

But the apostles were chosen. They did not know of their being chosen before they were born, until after the death and resurrection of Our Lord and then through the Holy Spirit - we call it hermaneutics – the Holy Spirit being the key to open up mysteries in the Old Testament that are now fulfilled in the Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

In reflection, the apostles realized they were chosen, they had a destiny before they were born, as Jesus found them and chose them here on earth. But they did not chose to live. The apostles did not have pre mortal existence because they are not gods. Only God IS…eternal being.

We come into being through the creative work of God with our parents. Only God can give life. The egg may be fertilized, but it is God Who gives it life.

 

[Becca3]

Saw the comment…we have a choice…

Jesus chose when He was to arrive…and He chose the time that would not only speak to the people of faith who came to believe in Him, but to those living in those times, and to all humanity.

But the apostles were chosen. They did not know of their being chosen before they were born, until after the death and resurrection of Our Lord and then through the Holy Spirit - we call it hermaneutics – the Holy Spirit being the key to open up mysteries in the Old Testament that are now fulfilled in the Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

In reflection, the apostles realized they were chosen, they had a destiny before they were born, as Jesus found them and chose them here on earth. But they did not chose to live. The apostles did not have pre mortal existence because they are not gods. Only God IS…eternal being.

We come into being through the creative work of God with our parents. Only God can give life. The egg may be fertilized, but it is God Who gives it life.

I do feel like I have a destiny and that I was chosen for this time in my life to do certain things as well. But we all have a pre-mortal existence cuz we are all spirits and we came from the spirit world. For where else would our souls come from?? But yes, we come into our physical bodies with the help of God and our parents.

 

[Miriam1947]

I do feel like I have a destiny and that I was chosen for this time in my life to do certain things as well. But we all have a pre-mortal existence cuz we are all spirits and we came from the spirit world. For where else would our souls come from?? But yes, we come into our physical bodies with the help of God and our parents.

I see that in the religion box that you state ~ Religion: converting to Catholic.

As Catholics we do not believe in a pre-mortal existence and do not believe that we were spirits and came from a spirit world.

Our souls are from God and come to us at the moment of conception.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God—it is not “produced” by the parents—and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235 (1005, 997)

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm?p=14-chapter4.xhtml%23para366

 

[Miriam1947]

Becca3, one of the biggest issues is the notion of God. He is not like us, he does not have a body, he did not progress and then took over this planet. There are not many gods in charge of other planets who have also progressed.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

We firmly believe and confess without reservation that there is only one true God, eternal, infinite (immensus) and unchangeable, incomprehensible, almighty, and ineffable, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit; three persons indeed, but one essence, substance or nature entirely simple.8

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm?p=14-chapter4.xhtml%23para366

You can go to these links I have posted and just type in what you are questioning in the search engine at the top of the page. It’s really cool.

 

[RebeccaJ]

In Pope Benedict XVI’s encyclical, Spe Salvi, he wrote:

1. With a hymn composed in the eighth or ninth century, thus for over a thousand years, the Church has greeted Mary, the Mother of God, as “Star of the Sea”: Ave maris stella. Human life is a journey. Towards what destination? How do we find the way? Life is like a voyage on the sea of history, often dark and stormy, a voyage in which we watch for the stars that indicate the route. The true stars of our life are the people who have lived good lives. They are lights of hope. Certainly, Jesus Christ is the true light, the sun that has risen above all the shadows of history. But to reach him we also need lights close by—people who shine with his light and so guide us along our way. Who more than Mary could be a star of hope for us? With her “yes” she opened the door of our world to God himself; she became the living Ark of the Covenant, in whom God took flesh, became one of us, and pitched his tent among us (cf. Jn 1:14).

http://puffin.creighton.edu/jesuit/andre/images/ave_maris_stella.jpg

Holy Mary, Mother of God, our Mother, teach us to believe, to hope, to love with you. Show us the way to his Kingdom! Star of the Sea, shine upon us and guide us on our way!

 

[Marie5890]

In Pope Benedict XVI’s encyclical, Spe Salvi, he wrote:

1. With a hymn composed in the eighth or ninth century, thus for over a thousand years, the Church has greeted Mary, the Mother of God, as “Star of the Sea”: Ave maris stella. Human life is a journey. Towards what destination? How do we find the way? Life is like a voyage on the sea of history, often dark and stormy, a voyage in which we watch for the stars that indicate the route. The true stars of our life are the people who have lived good lives. They are lights of hope. Certainly, Jesus Christ is the true light, the sun that has risen above all the shadows of history. But to reach him we also need lights close by—people who shine with his light and so guide us along our way. Who more than Mary could be a star of hope for us? With her “yes” she opened the door of our world to God himself; she became the living Ark of the Covenant, in whom God took flesh, became one of us, and pitched his tent among us (cf. Jn 1:14).

College of Arts and Sciences | Creighton University

Holy Mary, Mother of God, our Mother, teach us to believe, to hope, to love with you. Show us the way to his Kingdom! Star of the Sea, shine upon us and guide us on our way!

Beautiful icon of Our Lady

 

[RebeccaJ]

I do feel like I have a destiny and that I was chosen for this time in my life to do certain things as well. But we all have a pre-mortal existence cuz we are all spirits and we came from the spirit world. For where else would our souls come from?? But yes, we come into our physical bodies with the help of God and our parents.

I remember teaching a 4 year old class of primary kids about their souls being put into the body by using a glove as a representation of the body, and my hand as a representation of the spirit. There the glove is, lifeless, until the hand is in it.

This is a teaching unique to Mormonism.

We are created by God, body and soul. We do not believe in zombie-like bodies that have no souls. Thus, our belief that the unborn have a soul at conception.

As for Jesus choosing to come into the world, this is rooted in scripture, and expressed in the doctrines of the Incarnation. Jesus IS God, and became Man for our Salvation. We are not gods, who also became human like Jesus did, as a step on the ladder of progression towards divinity.

But indeed, God knew you before you were born. The God of Christianity is omnipresent, not existing in time, but the Creator of time. When God entered the world, He entered time, or what we call history. God does not have a history as God IS. There is nothing hidden from God, not even your eventual existence, as it is by God’s will that you exist at all.

 

[LionHeart777]

I find this point Tim Staples made against the alleged “great apostasy” that the Mormons believe in compelling:

According to Matthew 18:15-18, Jesus gave us a definitive commandment. He said:

‘If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you . . . If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’

Mormons and Catholics agree that Christ was directing the faithful to obey the Church that he established and that we can be confident about doing so because the true Church to which Jesus was leading us would never steer us away from God. The question is: To what Church is he referring? Mormons say it is the LDS ‘church.’ Catholics say it is the Catholic Church. How do we know which is true?

One way to know is to ask another simple question: What if you were living in, let’s say, 1785, and you were to read this very passage from Matthew. You know that Jesus would never lead you to a ‘church’ with no one who could speak for him. In obedience to Jesus, where would you go? The LDS did not exist yet. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He would never lead us astray or command us to follow error. If the true church did not exist on this earth for 1,800 years, then Jesus misguided millions into obeying error-filled churches with no apostolic authority. That would be unthinkable.

(Source: catholic.com/magazine/articles/latter-day-saints-and-the-great-apostasy)

 

[Marie5890]

I remember teaching a 4 year old class of primary kids about their souls being put into the body by using a glove as a representation of the body, and my hand as a representation of the spirit. There the glove is, lifeless, until the hand is in it.

.

First time I saw/heard of that analogy was watching “Go Towards The Light” made for TV movie with “The Walton’s” Richard Thomas. It was about a Mormon boy who was dying of aids and his father (Thomas) explained death to him with the hand-glove demonstration.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Beautiful icon of Our Lady

One of my favorite, by a modern iconographer, Fr. William Hart McNichols.

fatherbill.org/biography.php

 

[RebeccaJ]

First time I saw/heard of that analogy was watching “Go Towards The Light” made for TV movie with “The Walton’s” Richard Thomas. It was about a Mormon boy who was dying of aids and his father (Thomas) explained death to him with the hand-glove demonstration.

It is one of the teachings that former LDS describe as being difficult to let go of. The idea of a pre existence appeals to people. When I was teaching those four year olds, I was thinking it was kind of ridiculous. But I was pretty much not believing anything coming out of a Mormon manual by then. It wasn’t long after that, when I extracted myself from all things Mormon.