Why Should God Be the Moral Authority?

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Leela said:
Hi All,

This thread reminds me of Plato’s Euthyphro dilemma. If God did not have good reasons for making some things right and others wrong, then we have no reason to do what he wants. And if God had good reasons for making somethings right and some things wrong, then we should be able to appeal to those reasons directly. So I agree with Plato that reason rather than God is the moral authority.
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This isn’t much of a dilemma for classical Christianity, because Christians took Plato’s solution (that there are absolute Forms/Ideas of Goodness, Truth, Beauty, etc.) and combined it with monotheism (actually the pagan Neo-Platonists first did this). If there is one God who embodies the absolute forms of beauty, truth, and goodness, then the dilemma disappears. God’s nature is the source of the moral law.

Unfortunately, late medieval Christians moved away from this synthesis, stressing God’s absolute freedom, and the dilemma re-emerged.

Edwin
 
Oreoracle said:
You are officially my hero. 👍

The only semi-reasonable response to why God, who is supposedly the epitome of goodness, posited eternal torture that I’ve heard is “well…those parts are symbolic”.
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And what problem do you have with this response?

Edwin
 
The events in the OT seem so removed from our circumstances,that we lack the
frame of mind to even try to pass judgment about them.Just think in opposite terms,how would a person that goes about talking in a wireless phone would have been thought of
in Noah’s time. Perhaps that that person was the devil himself?
For the same token,how do we dare,little insignificant beings like us,judge the causes of what someone in previous entries called a slaughter?Could an ant analize our motivations?
Much less judge them fairly?
To understand the happenings in the New Testament is easier:we have Christ himself explaining and teaching us directly,in terms we can comprehend.
The Catholic Church is the only one created by Christ,and it stands like a beacon,teaching values and love that transcend the times.Her moral authority untouched.
Like a flower in the mud,the CC will survive ,because is backed by Christ himself, and despite the human flaws of a few of her members
 
Tamsulosin said:
The events in the OT seem so removed from our circumstances,that we lack the
frame of mind to even try to pass judgment about them.Just think in opposite terms,how would a person that goes about talking in a wireless phone would have been thought of
in Noah’s time. Perhaps that that person was the devil himself?
For the same token,how do we dare,little insignificant beings like us,judge the causes of what someone in previous entries called a slaughter?Could an ant analize our motivations?
Much less judge them fairly?
To understand the happenings in the New Testament is easier:we have Christ himself explaining and teaching us directly,in terms we can comprehend.
The Catholic Church is the only one created by Christ,and it stands like a beacon,teaching values and love that transcend the times.Her moral authority untouched.
Like a flower in the mud,the CC will survive ,because is backed by Christ himself, and despite the human flaws of a few of her members
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Calling Constantine Christ some may see as an insult to Christ.

Christianity is what it is today because of Constantine, not Christ.

If we are equivalent to ants as compared to God, then he does not deserve to be our God. Ant’s do not follow cows for their role model and thus we should not follow some alien God or his chimera son. Especially if that god has already shown his love for man by using genocide on us. Killing children and babies is evil.

Jews do not follow Hitler. Why would you want to follow a genocidal alien God?

Regards
DL
 
Leela said:
It sounds to me like Oreoracle is talking about Humanism:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
Humanism is a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appealing to universal human qualities, particularly rationality, without resorting to the supernatural or alleged divine authority from religious texts.[1][2] It is a component of a variety of more specific philosophical systems. Humanism can be considered as a process by which truth and morality is sought through human investigation and as such views on morals can change when new knowledge and information is discovered. In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine origin. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of the human condition, suggesting that solutions to human social and cultural problems cannot be parochial.

Best,
Leela
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Even the notion of a “commonality of the human condition<” if it means anything at all, it means something that transcends our ordinary experence.
 
Tamsulosin said:
Constantine?:confused:
CC is my abreviation for Catholic Church.
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This I know.

Constantine is our founding pay check.

Without him, Christianity would not be what it is today. His money paid for the Bible and the killing of descent and burning of heretic scripture. What a start.

Or perhaps better said, what we were.

In 50 yrs. at this rate, there may nor be a CC left.

Islam is growing faster, Secularism is taking off and our Pope is stuck in the year 750 somewhere.

Religulous and anti God signs are the tip of the ice burg and we are still debating talking snakes and ten headed monsters.

It all bodes ill for us Religionists.

Regards
DL
 
RobbyS said:
Even the notion of a “commonality of the human condition<” if it means anything at all, it means something that transcends our ordinary experence.
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Not.

It means that you, are like me.

regards
DL
 
Jusrafool.I am not a person that ever places bets.But it is tempting, I could easily make some serious money here.You say that in 50 years there will be no Catholic Church,right?:😃
 
Justafool said:
Are you saying that Jesus/God did not initiate Noah’s genocidal flood?
That was the slaughter of millions including children and babies too many to count.

What about all those poor animals as well? I certainly call that a slaughter.

Regards
DL
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That was not slaughter. There was no evidence of the presence of dead bodies of millions. At most, you would only have to imagine. But imagination is not fact.
 
severntofall said:
Your Lord ordered numerous merciless slaughters. The bold verses are the best examples of god’s love.
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You can read your above post again. There is no order for slaughter. In Joshua 6:2, the order was to march around…not order to slaughter.

In Numbers 31, there was also no order for slaughter. The order was to take vengeance, no order of slaughter.

In Samuel, you would notice that the one talking there was not God himself. Clearly, God did not order a slaughter. Ancient historical figures may have killed many in the name of God, but that would not give rise to the conclusion that God ordered slaughter.

The truth still stands out, that Jesus is perfectly pro-life.
 
Justafool said:
Quarles47;4972841:
Authority must be able to enforce it’s will. God is an absentee authority and cannot enforce squat.

Regards
DL
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Authority observes jurisdiction. Divine love does not coerce a person whom God sees that, in the exercise of his free will, would choose not to submit to His jurisdiction. It is to those who submitted to His jurisdiction that He enforces squat.
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Justafool said:
This quote confirms my point. Are we not living creature that moves on the ground?
Yes we are and are to have dominion. That includes moral rules.

Why else do you think we were given the tree of knowledge to learn from? Just for show?

Regards
DL
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Code:
We are living creatures, no question about that. But the command to man saying, "Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." is obvious that the phrase **living creature **there does not include him(man) to whom the command was addressed. I don’t think I need to make an illustration of this just to help you see it.
 
So much for “the book of Daniel” in one of those posts!:tsktsk: You know better than that Daniel! People don’t create God. God created people. The rules were set forth by God for the purpose of receiving divine graces that He the Creator can bestow upon people. God did not want chaos and violence in His world He created for us. Almost all of the present day laws were established because God put the words and deeds into the minds and hearts of men, that they would do what was right and just, for himself and his fellow man.
It is not a case of I’ll do what I want and to ---- with the rest! Laws, rules and regulations and yes moral ideologies, are put into practice that we may understand, obey and stay out of trouble…period!
I hope it gives you some idea of what God’s moral teachings were and why they were put into place by Him for man to follow. God Bless May:)
 
Authority must be able to enforce it’s will. God is an absentee authority and cannot enforce squat.
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Ahh, so now I see your true intent. And just why should we pay attention to someone that is hostile to God? :ehh:
And why should we pay any attention to you as any sort of “authority”:confused:
Would this be the ol’ clichéd of “I think, therefore I am” 😛
Just because you reject the benevolent Authority of God doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It just means you have a blockage.
 
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