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inJESUS
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hamba2han, what an enlightning post. Do you believe that Allah sends people to hell because he feels like it or because people brought it upon themselves?
Why should I become a Muslim, and why you should become a Christian.
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hamba2han
Guest
On the Day of Judgment, no one will enter Paradise without the Mercy of Allah, regardless of the amount of good deeds that he or she has done… and no one will enter the Hell-fire except by the Decree of Allah, regardless of the amount of sins that they may have commited during their time in this world.
In other words, it is NOT the creations who will determine their final destination in the Hereafter but rather, this will be the decision of their Creator alone i.e. the Master of the Day of Judgment.
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Charlotte2008
Guest
God loves everyone equally no matter what but if you do not accept that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died on the cross for your sins you will not reach salvation.
This is clearly written in the Bible John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”.
Here is something from the Gospel of John for you to read: ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/jn/jn8_12.htm
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planten
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Charlotte, could you remember and invite Jesus to your pork party?
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planten
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Yes, if any one needs worldly pleasures then that is a good and easy way to become a christian. They offer many things to the apostates.
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Charlotte2008
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He was at our Christmas Lunch. He was with us in Church too - as with every Christian family. I wish you had the love of Christ in you instead of resentment, criticism and hate towards us. Jesus always said we would be laughed at for following him and he is right. He also said to pray for those who persecute us because they don’t know any better. I guess he was right about that too. If only you could see it for yourself.
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Charlotte2008
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It is more a case of feeling the love of Jesus Christ in yourself. When have any miracles/healings happened at a Mosque?
Just remember that God knows what is in your heart at all times so you can go to the Mosque and pretend to be religious (not saying you are) but he knows the truth already.
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Submission
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This is why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA, Europe and the World?
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dzheremi
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And that proves something about its truth how exactly? Mormons also sometimes make that claim, and I think you’d probably agree with me that their religion is false.
The number of adherents a religion has does not reflect the truth of its doctrines at all. Christianity is as true today with over a billion adherents as it was in distant past, when its numbers were much smaller. It does not become more true by virtue of its growth nor less true by virtue of its decline. The truth of Christianity, that is CHRIST, is eternal.
The number of adherents a religion has does not reflect the truth of its doctrines at all. Christianity is as true today with over a billion adherents as it was in distant past, when its numbers were much smaller. It does not become more true by virtue of its growth nor less true by virtue of its decline. The truth of Christianity, that is CHRIST, is eternal.
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Charlotte2008
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That is the biggest lie Muslims like to tell. Fact is Muslims are leaving in droves. Mostly in Africa, Indonesia and Iran. It may be rising in the US but 75% abandon it within 3 years (Scholars admit that here uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EC8-aVlrE)). Did you know that actually there are only 1.8 million Muslims in the US – that is 0.6% of the population and not the millions as claimed. It is mostly due to the birth rates not conversions that it is growing. So anyone saying it is the fastest growing religion is a liar. Most people who convert do so to get the guy/girl but when they realise they have been lied to they leave. I have met some really hardcore converts on internet boards in the past year and 90% of them have reverted to Christianity.This is why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA, Europe and the World?
One thing I find interesting about apostates is that when they find out the truth they hate the religion and build websites trying to tell Muslims the truth about it. That doesn’t happen with any other religion. Why do you think that is? I suppose you, like the others will say…they aren’t Muslims. Well, they were and they are trying to tell you. Please read this freewebs.com/pleasegod/
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Submission
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Then why are the numbers growing in the fastest possible way?, it should be at an average speed if 75% of converts left Islam?That is the biggest lie Muslims like to tell. Fact is Muslims are leaving in droves. Mostly in Africa, Indonesia and Iran. It may be rising in the US but 75% abandon it within 3 years (Scholars admit that here uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EC8-aVlrE)). Did you know that actually there are only 1.8 million Muslims in the US – that is 0.6% of the population and not the millions as claimed. It is mostly due to the birth rates not conversions that it is growing. So anyone saying it is the fastest growing religion is a liar. Most people who convert do so to get the guy/girl but when they realise they have been lied to they leave. I have met some really hardcore converts on internet boards in the past year and 90% of them have reverted to Christianity.
One thing I find interesting about apostates is that when they find out the truth they hate the religion and build websites trying to tell Muslims the truth about it. That doesn’t happen with any other religion. Why do you think that is? I suppose you, like the others will say…they aren’t Muslims. Well, they were and they are trying to tell you. Please read this freewebs.com/pleasegod/
Lol, what do you want me to do with a website?, I can make a similar website like that to propagating that Christianity is false?, and I could also claim that I am an ex-Christian on the website?
The fact is the other way round, those people are scared that the truth is coming their way.
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Charlotte2008
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They are not “growing in the fastest possible way”. Why do all muslims have to beat their chests about converts anyway? At least Christian work to protect reverts from retaliation. Even ex-muslim Christians in the UK are being attacked. We have several ex-muslims in our Church in London and the number is growing rapidly. They are still threatened by their former friends who ditched them for leaving islam. I am really proud of them for taking off the hijabs and admitting it - it took a lot of courage for them to do that.
No compulsion in religion? Allah gave man “free will” and does not “force” anybody to convert (2:256). However, unbelievers must pay the humiliating “infidel tax”, the “Jizya” (9:29), face death, mutilation or expulsion (5:33) and suffer an eternal hell (4:169) if they don’t convert.
So…you are totally free to choose your religion? right…
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Ibn_Taymiya
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Yes, it stops being unseparate since it did something the father didn’t do.
There is a large difference between a person and an attribute, you speak, so your words are an attribute of you, which is InJesus’ words, but that doesn’t mean that InJesus’ words is a full InJesus human who speaks, hears, sees,…etc. The first is our understanding of attributes, the second is yours, and I find this against monotheism.
If you knew who is Ibn Taymiya (the scholar whom I named myself after him), you won’t have cited the Ash’ari quotes, as the Ash’ari hate Ibn Taymiya when he refuted their beliefs 700 years ago. What you are saying is not the Sunni belief.So what you are do you mean by saying that God creates and speaks by His Word and guides by His Spirit, when it is the case that all persons already do so?
Yes, he said that the word is father’s reason, but he said it was in his bowels and he begat him, a word not used with the spirit, so actually there is a difference. I don’t know where in the Quran or in the Sunna it says the examples you gave.
Not necessarily that this the example I gave was what exactly happened, but I see a clear significance for the word beget, as you clearly differentiate between begetting and proceeding.
He is too late, and I see him the first one mention the gospel of John, and not because he cited one verse means that he knew the Gospel in the same way you do.
I am not sure where it says about chin, but our belief in God’s attributes that we believe in what God told about himself and what the Prophet(Peace be upon him) taught about God with neither illustration nor interpolation (misinterpreting them as sayin that God’s hands is His power for example) nor denial but we say that God has hands but not as our hands but in a way that matches with His exaltedness as God says in the Quran nothing resembles Him and He is the All Seeing All Hearing.
When the Bible says that God’s word come out of His mouth, it tells that God has a mouth, otherwise it could have just said from Him or from His essence, as there is no need to say God’s mouth, this is an interpolation of scriptures.
I don’t see a real significance in that verse, as it says that sitting on the right hand happened when he had by himself purged your sins not that this was the case from the beginning, and Theophilus himself said that the word was God’s helper:
He had this Word as a helper in the things that were created by Him, and by Him He made all things. (Autolycus Book 2 chapter 10)
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Ibn_Taymiya
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Given? So God the Word didn’t have power until he was crucified then God gave it to Him?
Wrong, the Psalm says:
1 The Lord says to my lord
The first Lord is Yahweh, the second is adoni which is usually called among inferior lords, and using two different words in one verse means that the Psalm writer didn’t mean that the Messiah is God otherwise, he would have used a word that has no meaning except for the superiority.
And as he was supposed to claim divinity and affirm it, why didn’t he correct the concept that the Jews understood, and give them the evidence that he is really God instead of leaving them stoning him? Do you think that if the Jews really knew that Jesus was God, they would have continued on stoning him when they had already knew what blasphemy against God means through the OT? Jesus didn’t affirm it at all, and what he quoted is an ultimate proof that he didn’t.
Where did he affirm it? if he really wanted to affirm it, he wouldn’t have compared himself with mere men who were called gods and sons of God since all know that this verse didn’t mean that literally but figuratively and no one said that the judges are really God or the Son of God as you say about Jesus. If he really meant to affirm, he would have quoted something like Isaiah 9:6 or any other verse used by Christians to prove that the Messiah is God.
Ok, so when he forgave sins or says that he is the Lord of Sabbath, do you think that an ordinary man can say so?
So it’s a kind of test? John never mentioned wisdom neither did he quote the verse you gave, which clearly contradicts the concept of God since it says it was possessed or made and set up and God is neither possessed nor made nor set up, besides Athenagorus tells that this verse is telling about the Holy Spirit not the Word, as usual, Christians are contradicting each other:The prophetic Spirit also agrees with our statements. “The Lord,” it says, “made me, the beginning of His ways to His works.” (Pro_8:22) (A Plea Chap 10)
Not only this, but he says that wisdom is made by the Lord, a new interesting reading. Is God made by God?
As I said in the other post, the Shia are not as old as the Sunna. As for the Ebionites, they were Jewish Christians and there have been theories that refer them to James who wasn’t mentioned a lot in the NT although his great authority and even his epistle is not cited a lot by Christians as if there is some reason for Christians to hide his role. We can also see the epistles of Clement of Rome whom you call pseudo Clementine who nearly had the same age of the other epistle of Clement. And this is what reached us, but I am sure that what was hidden was much greater and we may see it one day, since as I said, the Roman Empire used to burn the books of all other sects and we didn’t know about most of them except the church fathers which are considered a biased source, so it cannot be a pure authority.
And you were also split into many sects in the ancient and modern ages, and many of your early church fathers adopted heresies, and many of those whom you considered heretics were originally bishops of your churches.
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Ibn_Taymiya
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But he came back and said that the Word is the Spirit of God and His Wisdom:
He, then, being Spirit of God, and governing principle, and wisdom, and power of the highest, came down upon the prophets, and through them spoke of the creation of the world and of all other things…Wherefore He speaks thus by the prophet Solomon: … And Moses, who lived many years before Solomon, or, rather, **the Word of God **(Not the Spirit of God)by him as by an instrument, says
So he likely seems to believe that the Word is the Holy Spirit as he calls both as wisdom and says that the word is who is the spirit is the one who inspired Moses not the Spirit especially when he says in the above chapter:
But men of God carrying in them a holy spirit35 and becoming prophets, being inspired and made wise by God, became God-taught, and holy, and righteous.(See Book 2 Chap. 9 and 10)
So he first said it is the Holy Spirit, then he says it is the word, which tells as if he believed in a semi Sabellian heresy that the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, but the Son is the Holy Spirit.
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Ibn_Taymiya
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And Adam was sent down to Earth with his sin according to your belief and this was the normal case till Jesus came, so why did God wait all that time which constitutes the large portion of history (at least two third of it according to your flawed Bible account) and send Jesus after all that time?
Jesus had already said that he is human and all his acts point out that he is human, so actually there was no need for him to be born of a virgin, he could have been born of nothing as Adam did and was still human, or as a natural birth as your god who put himself in a woman can put himself in a man so that when he knows his wife, she conceives her god.
No, Speaking in the cradle is a proof that he was born of a virgin not a reason. The reason was to be a sign for him being a prophet and a sign for the chastity of Lady Mary against the Jews which tells the high rank the Lady Mary is, besides, it’s a sensible evidence of God’s power.
91- And Maryam (Mary) who guarded herself from being supposed and maintained the flower of faith and chastity, and so We sent to her Our Messenger -the Spirit Gabriel-, to breathe life into her and animate a soul in her womb, and We made her and her son Isa (Jesus) an emblem of Our Omnipotence and Authority to be pondered by all people. (Sura 21:91)
This was the answer to question 1. The answer to question 2 is that God can give the Prophets many miracles as being more than one evidence, and virgin birht was one of the miracles. As for question 3, I can’t understand it, so please paraphrase it.
You were implying that you wanted an evidence from Jewish sources that Jews knew it, and that’s why I gave you that verse in Mat 27:50 to tell you that what you asked is not necessary to disprove it happened.
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Ibn_Taymiya
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Well, I agree with you that most varients are not that effective, but actually there are varients in the core of your beliefs and some of them were meant, see what I said in my homepage:
christismuslim.googlepages.com/textualvariants
Of course, this is one of the evidence that verses from the Bible were lost.
Addition, replacement and elimination could be a reason for many of the difficulties of the Bible verses as the genealogy of Jesus where Joakim was omitted from the genealogy of Matthew, the pericrope adultera, Mark 16:9-20, the inconsistencies between church fathers about canonical and apocryphal writings, although it is supposed that it is one holy spirit who guides all and tells them the canonical books. Actually, it’s a very great subject, you can see what I wrote about it in my homepage.
Again see my site about that issue, and you’ll see that one of my main sources is your catholic encyclopedia not just the critics, and the fathers who rejected the Hebrews, the Revelation and 2 Peter, were they also 20th century critics?
So when Papias says that Matthew wrote the Gospel and then says tells a very strange way Judas died with, do you think he knew your Gospel of Matthew? What unbroken chain are you talking about? Your church fathers didn’t name the gospels before Iraneaus except for Theophilus who named John only, and most of their quotes were very small quotes of one or two verses (I mean for those before Ireneaus), this has nothing to do with unbroken chain, this is called a mess.
Well, Justin and Chrysostom are considered an evidence since they lived at a very early age, you don’t even have a complete manuscript referring to that age
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Ibn_Taymiya
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The case that Justin meant a real interpolation where the Jews omitted this verse, why would they omit it from a translation which they already consider as inaccurate? Besides, Trypho was convinced with what Justin said.
Actually all your questions were answered and you are the one trying now to change the subject or just keep on saying it’s strange or I am not convinced or just repeat your arguments without refuting what I said. Your interpolation was made by men who changed God’s word according to their ego, while abrogation was made by God Himself with no man interference for many reasons, and this is a core difference between both cases.
So we are supposed to go in a circle and start from the beginning, read what was said before especially your last statement and my answer.
So what? The depth is considered a sea, the feminine wasn’t the depth but the darkness, the Quran literally says the darkness of a deep sea superimposed by waves and there are waves over these waves and cloud over them, so it talks about the darkness in a deep sea not on it for example if you wanted to say that this darkness is at the sea surface.
The other verse in the Psalm doesn’t tell about that, it talks those who are in ships and there were high waves due to a tempest so they ask God to save them. Context please.
Well, you first need to prove that those who knew him and believed in him used to believe what you believe. And according to what you are saying, if every heretic came and some believed in him, then when people after him some believed in the heretic’s disciples, this means that these people believe it on a base, history and common sense?
Well, I have searched this statement and didn’t find it in a hadith or Sira book and I don’t know whether it has an Isnad or not except in some scattered forums. Besides even if considered true, I don’t see it telling that Waraqa was the one who taught the Prophet (Peace be upon him) the Quran as there are many things that disprove that and you can see my questions in the last post. Besides, the other narration after revelation which is proven true clearly tells that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) didn’t take anything from Waraqa otherwise there was no need to ask him, all what you gave (if true) doesn’t tell anything other than telling that Waraqa attended his wedding.
A nice joke. No, I don’t think so. But if I wanted to know about somebody, I won’t go to ask his enemies about him or read his arguments against him, as they could misrepresnt his belief or the heretics may have answered your fathers, but in all cases, to know about the heretics from your fathers is not right because they are surely biased.
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Ibn_Taymiya
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I don’t know, but the Quran didn’t tell us whether he died or not.
Didn’t it say:
For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me.
As for the other gospel, I see your point.
So you are asking me to be a Shii to disbelieve in what the Uthman did under the consensus of the Sahaba including Ali himself? I know that the Shia say so, but their argument is so weak and say that the lost Quran which they suppose to be burnt by Uthman to hide what was said for Ali and and against the Sahaba will be restored by their last Imam the Mahdi who is hidden in a tunnel, which is a very comic argument especially when we know that Ali was the immediate caliph after Uthman and didn’t restore any of that lost Quran.No, the dialects were just a difference in accents with no difference in meaning, while the recitations can give more than one meaning as I explained before.
I don’t understand the first question, you mean if God ordered us in the Quran to follow the Sunna? If so, then the answer is yes as the Quran orders us a lot to follow the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and obey him. As for the second question, I am not sure if a hadith contradicts the Quran, as any apparent contradiction can be solved.
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