Why should i believe that there was a literlal Garden of Eden?

[grannymh]

Just been going back over the posts and would like to answer you here. I’m training to be a Post primary teacher (11-18) and my main subject is Religious Studies. Obviously reading the Catechism is something you enjoy and you feel you gain greater understanding from it. That does not follow for everyone.

I have taught 12 year old’s that can barely read and write and are of low ability. I have also taught children with learning difficulties such as; autism and dyslexia and children who can’t speak English. Unless you can speak their language, you have to teach them with pictures. Yes, you could get a catechism in their language, but if I gave the kids I teach a section of the catechism to read, they would be ‘sick’ every time they had a class with me! Kids today are also visual learners; particularly those with special needs.

To sum up, you would have to use a kiddy catechism but to honest, the wouldn’t be very excited about it and bored kids misbehave.

Regarding handing a catechism to a student – The original poster I was talking to was an adult very intelligent and willing to look for answers. Another poster who picked up on my comment teaches on the university level and was more concerned about protocol. The original poster did look at the* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition*, and responded in post 57. It did take me a while to check out his reference to Humani Generis. He has a great sense of humor, thus we have had some interesting discussions over a range of topics. I have learned a lot from him.

I admire you teaching these precious children. Experiencing your love and encouragement is what helps them learn. My daughter used a type of experiential learning when she taught special education classes and also when she taught junior high kids. When they had a unit on government, she took her class to interview the mayor. When she taught poetry, she asked her students to bring a few candles for atmosphere. When all the students showed up with candles, the principal did become concerned. I’ve learned from my daughter.

When my little grandkids are with me, I try to give them experiences of learning. When we are in a Church for the first time, after the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, I take them up to altar and we explore every inch, looking under the altar if it happens to have the form of a table. I do this so that they are comfortable with the surroundings. Looking at everything close up helps them to understand what is happening. When we are outside, I have them pick flowers and take them apart, touch pine needles, break open seed pods–exploring nature. What I am trying to say is that I agree with you, from my own experience, that one has to meet children on their level regardless of subject matter.

Blessings,
granny

John 3: 16-17

 

[lemondiesel]

Perhaps this is a bit off topic or has already been discussed, but why two creation of Man stories? I just recently watched a NatGeo documentary about Adam and Eve, and it suggested that originally Man and Woman were created from the same dust, but Woman prevailed over Man, and the first Woman was brought back to heaven. Then God made the second out of the rib, which allowed Woman to be subordinate to Man.

Not saying I believe or understand, but I was just wondering if someone could elaborate that question.

Thanks in advance,
John

 

[grannymh]

I’ve never actually heard that before. I don’t know how a Catholic theologian could deny original sin.

Not sure when or why all the opposition to Church teachings started. I was raising children, so I did not pay attention to the prominent writers who were pulling away from Catholicism. It was when I started to write about Catholicism for our Church bulletin that I ran across a reference to Matthew Fox. My first thought was the same as yours – how could a Catholic priest and teacher oppose the Catholic doctrine on original sin.

Matthew Fox is one of a variety of Catholic theologians who started reinterpreting Catholic doctrine. For example, he substituted an “original blessing” for the doctrine of original sin. He is now an Episcopal priest and theologian.

A phrase on a CAF post reminded me of the old reference to Matthew Fox, so I googled him. I can see how his offbeat ideas spread through a generation of similar authors like a trickle-down effect. For me, Matthew Fox is an example of what can happen.

Blessings,
granny

Isaiah 55

 

[buffalo]

Perhaps this is a bit off topic or has already been discussed, but why two creation of Man stories? I just recently watched a NatGeo documentary about Adam and Eve, and it suggested that originally Man and Woman were created from the same dust, but Woman prevailed over Man, and the first Woman was brought back to heaven. Then God made the second out of the rib, which allowed Woman to be subordinate to Man.

Not saying I believe or understand, but I was just wondering if someone could elaborate that question.

Thanks in advance,
John

Gen 1 and 2 are complementary. One seems to be written from God’s point of view and tells the order of creation. Gen 2 tells of man’s importance.

 

[minkymurph]

Perhaps this is a bit off topic or has already been discussed, but why two creation of Man stories? I just recently watched a NatGeo documentary about Adam and Eve, and it suggested that originally Man and Woman were created from the same dust, but Woman prevailed over Man, and the first Woman was brought back to heaven. Then God made the second out of the rib, which allowed Woman to be subordinate to Man.

Not saying I believe or understand, but I was just wondering if someone could elaborate that question.

Thanks in advance,
John

I don’t know anything about woman being taken back to heaven, but I have heard of the theory of the two Genesis accounts.

Two accounts of creation have been identified. The first one is believe to have been written during the Babylonian exile; possibly by Ezra. Hence, it emphasizes the transcendent of God and the Sabbath. The first account ends with the Sabbath.

The second account is though to be older and from what is termed ‘Yahwist’ tradition. The language is very different, it’s a different literary style, and it emphasises the immenence of God.

Both accounts have been identified as myth narratives because of their literary structure and other factors. ‘Myth’ does not denote fiction in ancient literature. It means the logistics of the story; i.e. God made woman from a man’s rib, is incidental to the deep meaning, and these details are not what the audience focused on. To illustrate further, Aesop’s fable of the Tortoise and the Hare was not told so people would believe it was scientifically possible for a tortoise to outrun a hare. Aesop’s stories are of course purely fictional. Myth narratives are not fiction. They are interpretations of things that actually happened, for example the flood. However, the events themselves may not have happened in the exact way the author is relating the story. A purely factual story would be pretty boring an no one would listen. In the ancient near east people passed on morals and beliefs by sitting around camp fires telling ‘stories.’ They didn’t have the Internet or kindle.

That’s scholarly opinion at the moment. Who’s to say some clever person won’t pick that to pieces in year’s to come.

 

[minkymurph]

I admire you teaching these precious children. Experiencing your love and encouragement is what helps them learn. My daughter used a type of experiential learning when she taught special education classes and also when she taught junior high kids. When they had a unit on government, she took her class to interview the mayor. When she taught poetry, she asked her students to bring a few candles for atmosphere. When all the students showed up with candles, the principal did become concerned. I’ve learned from my daughter.

Now that would appeal; using candles to create atmosphere.

 

[buffalo]

I don’t know anything about woman being taken back to heaven, but I have heard of the theory of the two Genesis accounts.

Two accounts of creation have been identified. The first one is believe to have been written during the Babylonian exile; possibly by Ezra. Hence, it emphasizes the transcendent of God and the Sabbath. The first account ends with the Sabbath.

The second account is though to be older and from what is termed ‘Yahwist’ tradition. The language is very different, it’s a different literary style, and it emphasises the immenence of God.

Both accounts have been identified as myth narratives because of their literary structure and other factors. ‘Myth’ does not denote fiction in ancient literature. It means the logistics of the story; i.e. God made woman from a man’s rib, is incidental to the deep meaning, and these details are not what the audience focused on. To illustrate further, Aesop’s fable of the Tortoise and the Hare was not told so people would believe it was scientifically possible for a tortoise to outrun a hare. Aesop’s stories are of course purely fictional. Myth narratives are not fiction. They are interpretations of things that actually happened, for example the flood. However, the events themselves may not have happened in the exact way the author is relating the story. A purely factual story would be pretty boring an no one would listen. In the ancient near east people passed on morals and beliefs by sitting around camp fires telling ‘stories.’ They didn’t have the Internet or kindle.

That’s scholarly opinion at the moment. Who’s to say some clever person won’t pick that to pieces in year’s to come.

Toledoths of Genesis

 

[minkymurph]

Not sure when or why all the opposition to Church teachings started. I was raising children, so I did not pay attention to the prominent writers who were pulling away from Catholicism. It was when I started to write about Catholicism for our Church bulletin that I ran across a reference to Matthew Fox. My first thought was the same as yours – how could a Catholic priest and teacher oppose the Catholic doctrine on original sin.

Matthew Fox is one of a variety of Catholic theologians who started reinterpreting Catholic doctrine. For example, he substituted an “original blessing” for the doctrine of original sin. He is now an Episcopal priest and theologian.

A phrase on a CAF post reminded me of the old reference to Matthew Fox, so I googled him. I can see how his offbeat ideas spread through a generation of similar authors like a trickle-down effect. For me, Matthew Fox is an example of what can happen.

Blessings,
granny

Isaiah 55

I have never actually heard of Matthew Fox. I was actually going to say earlier substituting ‘original blessing’ for original sin sounds like something the Church of England would come up with. I understand Episcopal is the equivalent? (Anglican) I know there is a big split in the Church of England.

 

[StAnastasia]

Just been going back over the posts and would like to answer you here. I’m training to be a Post primary teacher (11-18) and my main subject is Religious Studies.

Minkymurph, that’s exactly what I did for four years! I’m still hearing from students from way back then, who are now adults in their forties, and have friended me on Facebook. While teaching high school I never used a catechism with the students, but gave them handouts from primary materials and classic texts.

 

[StAnastasia]

Perhaps this is a bit off topic or has already been discussed, but why two creation of Man stories? I just recently watched a NatGeo documentary about Adam and Eve,

National Geographic is not the first authority to which I would turn in matters of theology.

 

[minkymurph]

Minkymurph, that’s exactly what I did for four years! I’m still hearing from students from way back then, who are now adults in their forties, and have friended me on Facebook. While teaching high school I never used a catechism with the students, but gave them handouts from primary materials and classic texts.

Really, it’s so good to encounter those you have something in common with.

The kids I teach would’t be able to read a catechism. They wouldn’t understand it. I use a lot of Primary materials, lots of visual and I love using music. I often start classes on teaching practice and give them a theme to prayerfully reflect or meditate on while listening to it.

I’m also on facebook.

 

[StAnastasia]

Really, it’s so good to encounter those you have something in common with. The kids I teach would’t be able to read a catechism. They wouldn’t understand it. I use a lot of Primary materials, lots of visual and I love using music. I often start classes on teaching practice and give them a theme to prayerfully reflect or meditate on while listening to it. I’m also on facebook.

Ah – I did that too. My kids (all girls) ranged from Central American refugees who knew no English to young women who went to major universities. We used centering prayer, music, imagery, etc. But I also had them read excerpts from the Patristic and Medieval and modern classics. It was a lot of work, but it encouraged them to engage with theology as a living dialogue across 2,000 years of culture.

StAnastasia

 

[grannymh]

Ah – I did that too. My kids (all girls) ranged from Central American refugees who knew no English to young women who went to major universities. We used centering prayer, music, imagery, etc. But I also had them read excerpts from the Patristic and Medieval and modern classics. It was a lot of work, but it encouraged them to engage with theology as a living dialogue across 2,000 years of culture.

StAnastasia

Clarification. A “living dialogue” is part of a current secular theology which is not the same as Catholic theology. Secular theology reflects changes in beliefs according to the latest interpretations of science, psychology, and cultural information. Whereas, Catholic theology is based on Divine Revelation which leads to eternal life with God.

 

[StAnastasia]

Clarification. A “living dialogue” is part of a current secular theology which is not the same as Catholic theology. Secular theology reflects changes in beliefs according to the latest interpretations of science, psychology, and cultural information. Whereas, Catholic theology is based on Divine Revelation which leads to eternal life with God.

Clarification, “secular theology” is a figment of the imagination. All theology is a dialogue between scripture, tradition, and the cultures in which the believing community is embedded. Perhaps Granny would like to present her theory at a theology conference, or write a book on it.

 

[grannymh]

Clarification, “secular theology” is a figment of the imagination. All theology is a dialogue between scripture, tradition, and the cultures in which the believing community is embedded. Perhaps Granny would like to present her theory at a theology conference, or write a book on it.

Divine Revelation Trumps.
The quest for spiritual truth leads to Catholicism.
.

 

[StAnastasia]

The quest for spiritual truth leads to Catholicism.

Agreed.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Closed pending Mod review.