At least you can be consistent within the one sentence you have posted.Nice cut n paste but still offers no explanation as to why we should accept your personal interpretation of Scripture
And you can explain why anybody should accept instruction from a bunch of pedophiles, and homosexuals, and scientist killers, and power mongers, and money-launderers.Nice cut n paste but still offers no explanation as to why we should accept your personal interpretation of Scripture
:dts: What on earth are you saying?The following description about Balaam and his donkey (2 Peter 2) aptly describes the Catholic Church of today.
But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.
13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.[e] 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the wicked sorcerer
Similarly, God used Jews and Catholic church as a vehicle to deliver Jesus and the Bible to the world.
Jesus was born among the Jews not because they were the most holy.
Jesus came searching for the lost sheep who needed saving. He came to save sinners,
Probably 2000 years ago, the Jews must have been the worst sinners who needed saving most, and that is why Jesus chose to be born among them. But they were more thickheaded than Balaam, (he did not crucify the donkey for giving him good advice).
The Jews chose to crucify Jesus rather than obey Him. Though Jesus was a Jew, it will be mendacity if the Jews claim any credit for the good teachings or deeds of Jesus. Jesus will of course save those of them who will die to their sins and be born again.
Nothing good would normally have come out of the Catholic Church especially after their unholy association with the power hungry Roman empire. But God knows how to use the Catholic Church, an organisation controlled by money greedy power mongers, pedophiles, or homosexuals to his advantage. God used their greed to get His things done through them, in spite of their wickedness and stupidity.
You can read the original story of Balaam in Numbers 22-24.
The wicked Balaam and his donkey were only tools in God’s hand. What they did or said were not because of their benevolence, or charity, or intelligence or wisdom. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, God uses Satan and his followers and animals to do the dirty work for Him and His real children.
If you still cannot understand what I am trying to express, you should pray to God to send you Balaam’s donkey who was able to guide Balaam into doing the right thing.
When you say those things you have, you are really saying them about your beliefs too, we both have Christ truly present in the Eucharist in both our churches, so why would you say those things about the Catholic Church? All I see is a great deal of Ignorance towards my faith (The Catholic Church).Orthodoxy believes
Roman Catholicism believes
- the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (Nicene Creed and John 15:26)
- the regional churches are united by meetings of their chief bishops, with no ruling bishop over all.
- the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father “and the Son” (a Roman addition to the Creed)
- the Pope of Rome should be the presiding bishop over all Christianity
And how would you have the capability to rule definitively that it is indeed a “divinely inspired piece of work,” yourself being only a man? You would have to place yourself in a position beyond even the “man or organization that claims authorship,” to the superior position of one who is capable of judging whether the inspiration itself is authentic. Are you, then, an even bigger “fool and liar” than someone who makes a lesser claim than yours, judging by your same criteria?It is indeed a divinely inspired piece of work. And any man or human organisation that claims authorship of it is a fool and a liar.
So how do you reconcile your claim that “…the wisest man is like a stupid donkey…” with your criticism of the Church? The implication being that the Church was, perhaps, correct in not allowing “stupid donkeys” to read the Bible. Or is it your claim that even “stupid donkeys” would have no difficulty understanding the Bible?The holiest man is like filth when compared to God.
The wisest man is like a stupid donkey in front of God.
For some selfish reason, the Catholic authorities and higher ups forbade other Catholics from having access to the Bible and reading it, on the pretext that they were too stupid to understand it. This is height of vainglory.
You can start by explaining why Catholic Church tortured astronomers and scientists for dis-agreeing with the views of the Church.:dts: What on earth are you saying?
You do realise that Catholics and Orthodox share very little differences. These are our main differences.
When you say those things you have, you are really saying them about your beliefs too, we both have Christ truly present in the Eucharist in both our churches, so why would you say those things about the Catholic Church? All I see is a great deal of Ignorance towards my faith (The Catholic Church).
Just because Judas was amongst the desciples, doesn’t mean that what Jesus said and did was wrong.
I find most people don’t hate the Catholic Church, they hate what they think the Catholic Church is.
Now I have pointed out our very little differences, so what on earth do you think the Catholic Church is in order to say those things you have about it?
Thank you for reading
Josh
Subjecting myself to a truth of somebody else against my conviction, for material gains or out of fear ( of ex-communication, burning at the stake, financial loss, etc.) will be going against the First commandment. Bowing down to another man or human organisation for truth is just that.And how would you have the capability to rule definitively that it is indeed a “divinely inspired piece of work,” yourself being only a man? You would have to place yourself in a position beyond even the “man or organization that claims authorship,” to the superior position of one who is capable of judging whether the inspiration itself is authentic. Are you, then, an even bigger “fool and liar” than someone who makes a lesser claim than yours, judging by your same criteria?
It is not my claim. It is so written in the Scriptures. But unfortunately, Scripture was kept out of reach of most Catholics, for long time, and they know only what was “interpreted” for them by “Holy” Cardinals and Bishops and Priests.So how do you reconcile your claim that “…the wisest man is like a stupid donkey…” with your criticism of the Church? The implication being that the Church was, perhaps, correct in not allowing “stupid donkeys” to read the Bible. Or is it your claim that even “stupid donkeys” would have no difficulty understanding the Bible?
A second point: Is it not just as “vainglorious” of you to claim that “…the wisest man is like a stupid donkey…?” How would you know that without your own pretext regarding superiority?
And you can explain why anybody should accept instruction from a bunch of pedophiles, and homosexuals, and scientist killers, and power mongers, and money-launderers.
Your language is becoming increasingly inflammatory. When arguments are tinged with defamation and over-generalizations, it’s time to take a step back and recognize that quality claims don’t include such problems.It is not my claim. It is so written in the Scriptures. But unfortunately, Scripture was kept out of reach of most Catholics, for long time, and they know only what was “interpreted” for them by “Holy” Cardinals and Bishops and Priests.
Please find such things in todays Catholic Church, I challenge you.The following description about Balaam and his donkey (2 Peter 2) aptly describes the Catholic Church of today.
So do you take offense towards Jesus Christ because of an immoral act committed by someone in his name?You can start by explaining why Catholic Church tortured astronomers and scientists for dis-agreeing with the views of the Church.
I don’t know.How did the Church decide that the earth was not going around the sun, but it was vice-versa?
Absolutely not.Did the Holy Spirit guide the Church when it decided to persecute scientists that believed that the earth was going around the Sun?
Absolutely not.Even if the scientists were wrong, would Jesus have burnt anybody at the stake for dis-agreeing with Him?
Of course. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be treated with mercy.Or, would He have saved them from death like He saved a prostitute from being stoned to death?
How can you say that Jesus represented God on earth?How can you then say that the Church represents Jesus on earth?
Shouldn’t we all? No one is justified in putting another to death. Please tell me how the Catholic Church advocates this in any way?Should the church have not made sure that they were not in error at least before they were going to kill somebody on that account?
So I guess Jesus couldn’t escape his responsibilities by transferring it to one of his followers? So I guess u’ll blame Jesus for grave atrocities people commit in his name?An organization cannot shy away from its responsibilities by transferring it to one of their members.
What is it you think that the Catholic Church today must own up to or accept responsibility for? What is it today that you carry these feelings towards the Catholic Church? Surely you wouldn’t expect Jesus to take responsibility or apologise for all of those who commit grave atrocities in his name would you?I cannot escape responsibility by saying that I did not steal, but itwas my hand that stole, or “I did not lie, it was my tongue”.
Truth should be tested on criteria independent of who we are.
2+1 should be 3 irrespective of whether I am orthodox, or Muslim or a Hindu.
Be clear that there is a distinction between a “natural man” and a spiritual one. Understood properly, God can and does provide to each of us the capability necessary through the Holy Spirit to discern his Wisdom. (I suggest you read the Wisdom Books of the OT.)It is not my claim. It is so written in the Scriptures. But unfortunately, Scripture was kept out of reach of most Catholics, for long time, and they know only what was “interpreted” for them by “Holy” Cardinals and Bishops and Priests.
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is your wise man? Where your expounder of the Law? Where your investigator of the questions of this present age? Has not God shown the world’s wisdom to be utter foolishness?
1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 2:14 Now the natural man doesn’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’t know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He has taken the wise in their craftiness.”
No. But if it was Idi Amin who discerned for you and me that the Gospel of Matthew is inspired and the Epistle of Barnabas is not then whenever you quote from Matthew you would be tacitly proclaiming, “I submit to Idi Amin’s authority!”think that you have understood the truth, but are acting as though you haven’t.
If I bought a Bible from Idi Amin’s bookshop, can Idi Amin claim credit for what is written in the Bible?
Right.Similarly, God used Jews and Catholic church as a vehicle to deliver Jesus and the Bible to the world.
The scientists were not persecuted for making the claim that the Earth was going around the Sun, but rather for making insinuations regarding the Church’s authority concerning matters of faith and morals. Much as you are today.You can start by explaining why Catholic Church tortured astronomers and scientists for dis-agreeing with the views of the Church.
How did the Church decide that the earth was not going around the sun, but it was vice-versa?
Did the Holy Spirit guide the Church when it decided to persecute scientists that believed that the earth was going around the Sun?
Be careful, tony. This is considered contemptuous of Catholicism, something that is not permitted here on the CAFs.Nothing good would normally have come out of the Catholic Church especially after their unholy association with the power hungry Roman empire. But God knows how to use the Catholic Church, an organisation controlled by money greedy power mongers, pedophiles, or homosexuals to his advantage. God used their greed to get His things done through them, in spite of their wickedness and stupidity.
None of that answers how it was Jesus could have interpreted the NT when it had not yet been written.Jesus had not changed anything in the Old Testament. The New Testament is Jesus’ interpretation of the Old Testament, which was very different from how the Jewish priests interpreted it. They were fooling and oppressing the people with their own selfish version of the Scripture, which was why God Himself had to come as man, to teach man the real truth.
Man, because of his corrupt nature cannot be relied upon to convey real Truth without adulterating it. If it were possible to have an infallible man or woman in this world, God would not have had to send His only Son to be born and to die to save sinners.
Since you seem to be a bit clueless about the Catholic teaching on infallibility, would it be correct for me to say that you don’t have a grasp on what the church teaches regarding Mary’s sinlessness and why this has been a constant teaching of the Church since its inception?That is why infallibility of the Pope and sinlessness of Mary are all meaningless
How does your dislike of the Catholic Church translate into us having to accept your personal interpretation of Scripture?I think that you have understood the truth, but are acting as though you haven’t.
If I bought a Bible from Idi Amin’s bookshop, can Idi Amin claim credit for what is written in the Bible?
The following description about Balaam and his donkey (2 Peter 2) aptly describes the Catholic Church of today.
But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.
13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.[e] 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the wicked sorcerer
Similarly, God used Jews and Catholic church as a vehicle to deliver Jesus and the Bible to the world.
Jesus was born among the Jews not because they were the most holy.
Jesus came searching for the lost sheep who needed saving. He came to save sinners,
Probably 2000 years ago, the Jews must have been the worst sinners who needed saving most, and that is why Jesus chose to be born among them. But they were more thickheaded than Balaam, (he did not crucify the donkey for giving him good advice).
The Jews chose to crucify Jesus rather than obey Him. Though Jesus was a Jew, it will be mendacity if the Jews claim any credit for the good teachings or deeds of Jesus. Jesus will of course save those of them who will die to their sins and be born again.
Nothing good would normally have come out of the Catholic Church especially after their unholy association with the power hungry Roman empire. But God knows how to use the Catholic Church, an organisation controlled by money greedy power mongers, pedophiles, or homosexuals to his advantage. God used their greed to get His things done through them, in spite of their wickedness and stupidity.
You can read the original story of Balaam in Numbers 22-24.
The wicked Balaam and his donkey were only tools in God’s hand. What they did or said were not because of their benevolence, or charity, or intelligence or wisdom. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, God uses Satan and his followers and animals to do the dirty work for Him and His real children.
If you still cannot understand what I am trying to express, you should pray to God to send you Balaam’s donkey who was able to guide Balaam into doing the right thing.
If everybody interprets Scripture correctly, and everybody becomes saints and spends their time praying and meditating, who will run God’s errands?So why does the Holy Spirit lead people to interpret Scripture so differently Is our God the God of confusion?
Why should I accept your personal interpretation of Scripture? How do you reconcile you interpreting with the fact over a billion people disagree with it?If everybody interprets Scripture correctly, and everybody becomes saints and spends their time praying and meditating, who will run God’s errands?
No, he needs domesticated animals (like donkeys) -some greedy people obsessed with wordily gold and property and sex and fame, to carry loads and run errands.
In our place we get bullocks addicted to a kind of smelling grass. A bunch of this grass is kept on a clip located just in front of the nose of the bullock when pulling a cart. The bullock gallops forward without much coaxing or whipping trying to reach the grass in front.
So God hardens the hearts of some people purposely, and keeps them addicted or attached to some worldly things, so that they are available for doing donkey jobs.
Some Governments give free cigarettes and alcohol to defense personnel for the same reason. An intoxicated soldier is better than no soldier at all. But such soldiers can be used only for destructive purposes - to destroy buildings, bridges, and to plunder and pillage homes of enemy countries. During peace time, such soldiers are usually kept in barracks, away from normal citizen because of their destructive temperment.
In olden days, in some ships, scavengers or toilet cleaners were given an extra free bottle of booze to help them overcome the shame and and hatred they had for their job.
God is very honest about this and does not keep it as a secret. When he felt that some evil people under a ruler named Nimrod was about to become uncontrollable, he confused their languages. Hardening of heart, confusing tongues, making people addicted to worthless things, are some of the techniques God uses to control his domesticated animaln s or robots, to get his plans executed. At various times, God has used Satan, Egyptians, Babylonians, Jews, Romans Anglo Saxons, and Americans to do donkey jobs or the dirty jobs for him. He gets them intoxicated with sex and drugs and power and uses them to do a scavengers job (for removing filth from this world)
God actually punishes the very people that He used to accomplish His plan when those people do what they did with a wrong motive and with no thought of God.
Look again at Isaiah ten:
"When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, “I will punish the King of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eye. For he says, `By the strength of my hand I have done this, and by my wisdom, because I have understanding. I removed the boundaries of the nations; I plundered their treasures; like a mighty one I subdued their kings.’” Isa. 10:12,13
You can feel the arrogant unbelief and self-sufficiency of the Assyrian. He really believes that he has accomplished everything by his own wisdom and strength. He has no thought of God nor does he acknowledge God in any way. If we were to tell him the truth of what was happening, he would probably burst out laughing, and then kill us for daring to infer there was a Person stronger than himself. The next verse really shows his conceit:
“As one reaches into a nest, so my hands reached for the wealth of the nations; as men gathered abandoned eggs, so I gathered all the countries; not one flapped a wing or opened its mouth to chirp.” Isa. 10:14
Here the pompous king compares himself to a man robbing the nests of helpless birds. He can laugh at the armies and navies of any and all nations because of his superior strength. Everyone is too afraid to even open his mouth and protest, let alone actually try to stop him. Ah, but wait a moment and listen to Someone else speaking. Listen to God tell why the invasion of Israel took place and what is now going to happen to the Assyrian. In verses 5 and 6 God said He would use the Assyrian to punish Israel. In verse 12 God repeats that He had indeed used the Assyrian, but then God adds, “I will punish the King of Assyria for the wilful pride of his heart…” God will now deal with the Assyrian for what he did! Verse 15 tells us why God is angry with the Assyrian, even though the Assyrian has just (unknowingly) completed a job that has been assigned by God. Let these words sink into your mind and heart regardless of what they do to your sentimental theology
So if the Roman Catholic Church feels today that they have God in their pockets , they are going to realise a bitter truth soon. At various times, Nimrod, and Pharaohs and Assyrians have thought that agr swere God, and infallible, when they were intoxicated with power and money. They inflated themselves till they burst.
No. Jesus had never done any of the atrocities done by Catholic Church, and he would never have allowed any of those things to happen, if he was head of the church.So do you take offense towards Jesus Christ because of an immoral act committed by someone in his name?
So I guess Jesus couldn’t escape his responsibilities by transferring it to one of his followers? So I guess u’ll blame Jesus for grave atrocities people commit in his name?
What is it you think that the Catholic Church today must own up to or accept responsibility for? What is it today that you carry these feelings towards the Catholic Church? Surely you wouldn’t expect Jesus to take responsibility or apologise for all of those who commit grave atrocities in his name would you?
Surely you know that there are wolves amongst the sheep.
Thank you for reading
Josh