Why should we listen to you?

[brkn1]

Peter’s role is unique and primary among the apostles.

Only Peter was given the keys to the Kingdom.

Only Peter’s name was changed by Jesus.

So you or your church is saying, “Peter is the foundation that supports the Cornerstone.”?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I never said that the Church is not to have a visible presence on Earth. Our main concern should be to spread the Gospel though, not to rule over fellow believers and others. The RCC is set up to be the final ruling source of salvation, which is the role of the Holy Spirit.

The role of the Catholic Church is to protect and propagate the truth of the gospel with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

This role was assigned to the Church by Jesus.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

So you or your church is saying, “Peter is the foundation that supports the Cornerstone.”?

We believe what the bible teaches.

Do you?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I never said that the Church is not to have a visible presence on Earth. Our main concern should be to spread the Gospel though, not to rule over fellow believers and others. The RCC is set up to be the final ruling source of salvation, which is the role of the Holy Spirit.

That just isn’t true.

First, the Roman Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, from which all salvation is made known to mankind, since Jesus Himself founded the Church and blessed the Apostles with the anointing they have passed down. There is no confusion between the Holy Spirit and the Church. The Holy Spirit works through the Church. Nowhere in Catholic theology are the two confused. Once again, if you accuse, back up your accusations.

Second, the RCC allows that salvation may be obtained outside the Church, and that people are judged by the amount of light they have been given, even if that light is inferior to the fully revealed truth in the Catholic Church.

Third, who are you to accuse the RCC of “ruling over” others?

You don’t seem to have any theological arguments at all, just unfounded accusations.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

You have effectively said that God’s Word cannot be understood by a “fisherman as Peter was” or some uneducated laborer etc.

That would be correct.

And that is why Jesus came in the flesh to explain a few things, by word and deed.

God’s inspired Word is not clear enough and sufficient by your standards.

Also correct. And luckily, it doesn’t have to be, as we have the Magisterium to make it clear, as best it can to the capacities of the various people who are interested in understanding it clearly.

You must add another book of traditions to complicate everything and then say that we must surrender our minds and will to the Magisterium and the Pope.

Why would anyone be opposed to hearing from THE single expert and divinely authorized source of truth in the area of faith and morals?

Those who won’t be docile to the only thing worth being docile to in the only area in which they are obliged to be docile rebel NOT against being correct but simply against being docile FOR ANY REASON.

It is “Non Seviam” all over again!

Where does Jesus saying that the “Truth will set you free.” come into this equation?

The truth is that we are to get our information (as regards faith and morals) authoritatively only from the Church, which is His Body.

Freedom is not “the ability to do as you like” but rather freedom to do as you should. To follow God is to be most free, and the most effective way to do that is to listen to God through His Church.

We are certainly to use our reason, and our practices toward holiness, to be “possibly personally informed by God” (private revelation), but any private revelation must be checked against the Church to test it’s veracity.

:shamrock2:

 

[brkn1]

We believe what the bible teaches.

Do you?

How does: “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 3:11) fit into your biblical teachings?

 

[peary]

We dont ask you to listen to us we ask that you use your head. Read the bible without any preconceptions and you will be lead to truth.

If you take the Bible at face-value, then you will realize that the Church teaches the authoritative Truth.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

How does: “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 3:11) fit into your biblical teachings?

Jesus laid the foundation of the Church.

Here’s what Paul thinks of the Church:

1 Tim 3

15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

And here’s some good advice from Jesus:

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

 

[brkn1]

That would be correct.

And that is why Jesus came in the flesh to explain a few things, by word and deed.

Also correct. And luckily, it doesn’t have to be, as we have the Magisterium to make it clear, as best it can to the capacities of the various people who are interested in understanding it clearly.

Why would anyone be opposed to hearing from THE single expert and divinely authorized source of truth in the area of faith and morals?

Those who won’t be docile to the only thing worth being docile to in the only area in which they are obliged to be docile rebel NOT against being correct but simply against being docile FOR ANY REASON.

It is “Non Seviam” all over again!

The truth is that we are to get our information (as regards faith and morals) authoritatively only from the Church, which is His Body.

Freedom is not “the ability to do as you like” but rather freedom to do as you should. To follow God is to be most free, and the most effective way to do that is to listen to God through His Church.

We are certainly to use our reason, and our practices toward holiness, to be “possibly personally informed by God” (private revelation), but any private revelation must be checked against the Church to test it’s veracity.

:shamrock2:

I have been following what THE single expert has to say lately and I find him seriously lacking. What is it with all this Mary stuff? I thought it was all about Jesus.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

I have been following what THE single expert has to say lately and I find him seriously lacking.

Your capacity to understand what you hear is not a widespread concern, but may be something you might want to focus on in search of a solution.

What is it with all this Mary stuff? I thought it was all about Jesus.

How could it NOT be all about God? (Jesus et al.)

Do you not brush your teeth because it’s “all about continuing to breathe”?

What do think you mean by “Mary stuff”?

:shamrock2:

 

[seekdatruth]

“What is it with all this Mary stuff? I thought it was all about Jesus.”

“You alone are the Holy One. You alone are the Lord. You alone are the Most High Jesus Christ.”
“All Glory and Power is Yours Almighty Father, forever and ever!”
“Amen!”

–Something you might hear if you actually attend Catholic Mass and listen.

 

[WindGirl]

If you take the Bible at face-value, then you will realize that the Church teaches the authoritative Truth.

I do take it seriously and at face value and I have yet to come to the conclusion that the RCC is the church spoken of in Scripture or that the RCC has any authority over me or that it teaches the authoritative truth.

 

[WindGirl]

Originally Posted by Linda Marie

If not for the Authority of the Catholic Church, I would not believe one word of the Bible, any more than I believe anything in the Book of Mormon. Once I have accepted that Authority, why should I reject it when the Church clarifies what it means when there is confusion and disagreement on interpretation?

There are millions of Christians in the world who believe the Bible without any say so from the RCC or it’s supposed authority. No offense but, as someone alluded to, it seems your faith is more in “the church” than anything else.

 

[Pier]

God most certainly does delegate authority, but the question becomes,“What sort of authority?”.
Jesus said that we must render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar’s. The RCC has often become or tried to become that very Ceasar that is of this world.

In what way? You couldn’t possibly be talking about tithing. And many times this world mocks the teachings of Christ’s Church, so

Jesus also said that His kingdom is not of this world, so where does the papacy get the claim to be the ruler of this world and even the universe?
True following of Christ allows that we are pilgrims in this world as Peter and Paul said. “…I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims…” (1 Peter 2:11) This is not the talk of a worldly authority, which the RCC is.
Those keys are the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which the preaching of that true Gospel opens the door of the Kingdom of Heaven. Not obeying Jesus command to preach the Gospel will close that door to those whose sins are not remitted by hearing the Gospel and receiving it through the Holy Spirit unto eternal salvation.

The Catholic Church is Christ centered - if you attended the Mass you’d see for yourself.

 

[fbl9]

Physical baptism is not the same as the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Peter is described as one of the foundation stones along with the other apostles and prophets. All born again believers are living stones on top of the earlier stones as the building of the living Church of Jesus.
If Christ is not both the cornerstone and foundation, then Peter, as the “foundation” would be supporting the Cornerstone (Jesus). Now THAT does not make any sense!

a corner stone is the key stone in any structure…but not the structure itself.
without this key stone any structure will collaspe in due time…

 

[fbl9]

. All born again believers are living stones on top of the earlier stones as the building of the living Church of Jesus.
If Christ is not both the cornerstone and foundation, then Peter, as the “foundation” would be supporting the Cornerstone (Jesus). Now THAT does not make any sense!

just where is this foundation laid?it is laid inside of one…we(each person) are the one’s building on this foundation…go back to the gospel where Jesus spoke the parable of the wise builder,where did he build his house on a FIRM FOUNDATION(rock)…

 

[CatsAndDogs]

I do take it seriously and at face value and I have yet to come to the conclusion that the RCC is the church spoken of in Scripture or that the RCC has any authority over me or that it teaches the authoritative truth.

That’s fine. Many people are in the same position that you are, so you certainly shouldn’t feel lonely.

But the fact that you’re simply wrong says only that you’re wrong, and nothing whatsoever about the Church being right.

You are perfectly free, and apparently capable, of choosing to choose your own authority to interpret scripture, and all the other parts of the Deposit of Faith, over that of God’s authorized Body, the Church.

Are you trying to find out WHY it is that we believe the Church is “the Church” by conversing with us, or are you simply here to “save us” from the evil “RCC”?

To get back to the question of this thread: Why should we listen to you?

:shamrock2:

 

[WindGirl]

That’s fine. Many people are in the same position that you are, so you certainly shouldn’t feel lonely.

But the fact that you’re simply wrong says only that you’re wrong, and nothing whatsoever about the Church being right.

Number 1, I obviously don’t think I’m wrong just as you don’t think you are. Number 2, I believe the church in Scripture to be all Christians, not just one group who says only they are it. You know, just as you would say to me, merely pronouncing someone to be wrong doesn’t make them wrong.

You are perfectly free, and apparently capable, of choosing to choose your own authority to interpret scripture, and all the other parts of the Deposit of Faith, over that of God’s authorized Body, the Church.

Nothing in God’s word tells me I can’t read it for myself and, like the Bereans, use it to determine if someone is telling me the truth or not. I think Jesus expects us to read and understand or he wouldn’t have asked “have ye not read…?” We’re given plenty of warnings in Scripture and why give them if we cannot understand? It says even from among our own selves, there will rise up those teaching heresy and perverting Christ’s gospel. I’m told if anyone, even an angel comes to me with a different gospel, they are accursed. Once again, I’m not in agreement about the RCC being God’s “authorized body.” In the Bible, what I see is if a person is a believer, Jesus adds them to His universal church. So any church that claims that only those in membership with them are in Christ’s church, and their are more than one, are mistaken imho. That’s always a red flag to me that they are not.

Are you trying to find out WHY it is that we believe the Church is “the Church” by conversing with us, or are you simply here to “save us” from the evil “RCC”?

More the latter though I wouldn’t put it in those terms. I don’t really know why I’m here. I was invited by another Christian a long time ago. But I believe God has given me a burden for Catholics. It is He who will decide whether to use any non Catholic here to reach anyone. There are always lurkers, you know.

To get back to the question of this thread: Why should we listen to you?

Why should I listen to you?

Acts 5 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Psalm 118 8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

 

[fbl9]

So any church that claims that only those in membership with them are in Christ’s church, and their are more than one, are mistaken imho. That’s always a red flag to me that they are not.

More the latter though I wouldn’t put it in those terms. I don’t really know why I’m here. I was invited by another Christian a long time ago. But I believe God has given me a burden for Catholics. It is He who will decide whether to use any non Catholic here to reach anyone. There are always lurkers, you know…

you don’t even follow your own words
just reading your post after i trimmed it makes all the more reason not to listen to you…

 

[Pier]

I don’t really know why I’m here. I was invited by another Christian a long time ago. But I believe God has given me a burden for Catholics. It is He who will decide whether to use any non Catholic here to reach anyone.

Qué?