Why should we listen to you?

[ralphinal]

Set aside all of the rhetoric. Set aside any notions about Jimmy’s master plan for posting. There is an important set of questions here.

Why sould I trust what you claim as a Christian?

How do I know that you are truly a Christian?

What makes you certain that you are the correct one?

How do I determine who is correct and who is not?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Set aside all of the rhetoric. Set aside any notions about Jimmy’s master plan for posting. There is an important set of questions here.

Why should I trust what you claim as a Christian?

You shouldn’t. You should check what is said against what the Church says.

How do I know that you are truly a Christian?

You don’t, and can’t.

What makes you certain that you are the correct one?

I count on others to correct me if I say something contrary to Church teaching. I’m only correct if I’m CORRECT. If I think I’m correct when I’m not correct I’m not likely to check my own correctness, and therefore I rely on others who know better to correct me.

How do I determine who is correct and who is not?

By checking what they say against the CHURCH, via the Magisterium!

If you have trouble figuring out where to look for what the Church REALLY SAYS, ask THAT question and your wish will be granted post haste.

:shamrock2:

 

[mpernot]

This is irrelevant, and totally off topic. The first Christians were ONLY CATHOLIC. There were no different rites among the Apostles. Stop making an argument where none needs to be.

~Liza

I’m surprised you took issue with what I said - you do know the authority of your church was challenged, right?

This is very relevant; in fact, it gets at the heart of the OP’s initial question. The reason for believing/not believing in someone has to do directly with believing/not believing in the authority with which they speak. To answer the question “why should I listen to you”, one has to prove their authority to speak.

When the question shifts from an individual to a church, one should follow the church that they believe speaks with the authority of Christ. I expect no less, and you shouldn’t either. To establish this authority via apostolic succession (that’s where the agreement of the church fathers steps in) is to establish the authority of the church. I don’t say this because I like to randomly upset people (which I don’t, just thought I would close that loop…), I say it because it is the issue at hand.

Also, I don’t disagree with you if by “CATHOLIC” above you mean “universal”. It’s pretty safe to claim that you are the universal church if you’re the only one at the time. Denominations don’t get names until they break from the original church; by definition, such names are not needed until then. That’s why we shouldn’t get hung up on names, but we should concentrate on things like authority and teachings. Again, If the original church taught with the authority of Christ, and one of the current 33,000+ Christian faiths can prove that they still posess this authority, that should mean something to a lot of people. The church fathers are definitely a part of this.

 

[mpernot]

If true (I haven’t extensively read their work), that has no bearing on me. They were human, just like us. People can hold whatever opinions they fancy

That’s all fair, I’m not an expert either. However, if the early church fathers taught what Jesus taught and didn’t make up their own denominations, I’d think that should lend them some serious consideration from all Christians.

 

[Jimmy_B]

We dont ask you to listen to us we ask that you use your head. Read the bible without any preconceptions and you will be lead to truth.

Hello Hisalone,

“…we ask that you use your head.”

Oh, I see now…it is a matter of intelligence…So, if I were as “smart” as you. I would be able to understand that you are right and the Catholic Church is wrong. Is that what you are saying here?

Peace

 

[WindGirl]

You shouldn’t. You should check what is said against what the Church says.

Why shouldn’t he check it with what the Bible says?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Why shouldn’t he check it with what the bible says?

Nothing wrong with going to the Bible but it is the Church that is the pillar and ground of the Truth.

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Tim 3:15

God bless

 

[Jimmy_B]

The Church, Christian history and Christian traditions all help to understand and put the Bible in context.

First, came Jesus, and then came His Apostles… then, His Catholic Church…then, the Bible.

Some here act as if the Bible came first. Some here, act as if the Bible comes first and some here, act as if the Church is no longer necessary.

Obviously, the Church came before the Bible…the Bible contains a record of those things Christian, after they had already occurred.

So, in some sense, it is a written record of the past and of the early Church.

For example, Paul’s letters were written to some of those in the early Church, to clarify teachings, which were already accepted by the Church, by that point.

Does anyone disagree with my comments here?

Peace

 

[Contarini]

By what authority, do you derive your power to try to influence others here, on religion, or the issues of faith and morals?

There seems to be many here, who are eager to give advice and try to define Christianity and I am wondering; by what authority do you do this?

Which authority, allows you to tell me and/or others here, what we should believe?

Why should we listen to you?

Because we are human beings created in God’s image, and because most of us are furthermore Christians who have been baptized in the name of the Blessed Trinity. Some of us also have academic credentials that might be deserving of a little respect, unless you have bought into the standard American ideology of anti-intellectualism.

Edwin

 

[WindGirl]

Nothing wrong with going to the Bible but it is the Church that is the pillar and ground of the Truth.
God bless

Let me share with you what I believe about that Scripture. It’s not giving carte blanche final authority to the church (whatever you or I deem that to be). Break it down. What’s a pillar and ground? Something that supports something and something that is a foundation for something. So the church is the pillar and ground of what? The truth. Let’s find out what the truth is:

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

According to Jesus, the truth is the word of God: the Scriptures. So the church is to be the pillar and ground of the Scriptures. If a church is NOT upholding the word of God and is not grounded in it, can it then rightly be called the pillar and ground of truth? The authority of the church is the Scriptures. If any church departs from the Scriptures, it stands to reason the authority also departs. Unless you’re giving a church more authority than God.

Is the Bible the infallible word of God or not? Is God the source of truth or not? Is God the final authority or is He not? Then it stands to reason that His word is the final authority, not any church. So I don’t believe that verse is saying what Catholics say it is because that would then kind of make a god out of the church, giving it superior authority above what God has said in His word. The Bereans didn’t check with a church to find out if what Paul told them was true, they checked the Scriptures.

 

[ChristianKnight]

By what authority, do you derive your power to try to influence others here, on religion, or the issues of faith and morals?

There seems to be many here, who are eager to give advice and try to define Christianity and I am wondering; by what authority do you do this?

Which authority, allows you to tell me and/or others here, what we should believe?

Why should we listen to you?

I do not try to influence anyone. I just try to learn.

Well, thats part of being a human is to want power to influence. I have power of influence at school when it comes to history, cause people know I make A+'s in all my history tests, I have the ability to give them a wrong answer, and they accept it, cause I have more knowledge.

I would listen to anyone as long as they are respectful and half way intelligent.

 

[ncgolf]

Let me share with you what I believe about that Scripture. It’s not giving carte blanche final authority to the church (whatever you or I deem that to be). Break it down. What’s a pillar and ground? Something that supports something and something that is a foundation for something. So the church is the pillar and ground of what? The truth. Let’s find out what the truth is:

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

According to Jesus, the truth is the word of God: the Scriptures. So the church is to be the pillar and ground of the Scriptures. If a church is NOT upholding the word of God and is not grounded in it, can it then rightly be called the pillar and ground of truth? The authority of the church is the Scriptures. If any church departs from the Scriptures, it stands to reason the authority also departs. Unless you’re giving a church more authority than God.

Is the Bible the infallible word of God or not? Is God the source of truth or not? Is God the final authority or is He not? Then it stands to reason that His word is the final authority, not any church. So I don’t believe that verse is saying what Catholics say it is because that would then kind of make a god out of the church, giving it superior authority above what God has said in His word. The Bereans didn’t check with a church to find out if what Paul told them was true, they checked the Scriptures.

John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

The Word is Christ … He still lives and preaches … from where the Scriptures, yes most definitely, but is that the only place Jesus lives, breathes and teaches … I don’t think you will find Scripture saying that is the only place.

The place Jesus still lives is His Church … one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

 

[WindGirl]

John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

The Word is Christ … He still lives and preaches … from where the Scriptures, yes most definitely, but is that the only place Jesus lives, breathes and teaches … I don’t think you will find Scripture saying that is the only place.

The place Jesus still lives is His Church … one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

Christ is the living Word, the Bible is the written word. My Bible capitalzed the W when it’s speaking of Christ. Jesus is the truth as He said in John 14:6 and so is the Scriptures. Jesus was talking about the Scriptures in John 17:17. Otherwise He could have said “sanctify them through me, I am the truth.” The Bible is the truth. Jesus lives in every Christian via the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[wintersnow]

By what authority, do you derive your power to try to influence others here, on religion, or the issues of faith and morals?

There seems to be many here, who are eager to give advice and try to define Christianity and I am wondering; by what authority do you do this?

Which authority, allows you to tell me and/or others here, what we should believe?

Why should we listen to you?

You will never get a good answer for that one Jim! But I do know of one person who may answer. I won’t mention any names, but I bet they will want a prize!

 

[Jimmy_B]

That’s the only way to be sure one is right…

I agree!

 

[Non_Serviam]

By what authority, do you derive your power to try to influence others here, on religion, or the issues of faith and morals?

There seems to be many here, who are eager to give advice and try to define Christianity and I am wondering; by what authority do you do this?

Which authority, allows you to tell me and/or others here, what we should believe?

Why should we listen to you?

The same as anyone else who posts on this forum-I’m a “rational animal” whose intellect and self-awareness allow me to consider and evaluate ideas and respond to them intellectually, behaviourally and emotionally based on my evaluation.

Everyone posting in this thread, whether accepting the “authority” of the Catholic church or rejecting it is doing so for this very reason-the “authority” having received a positive or negative evaluation from you which then leads you to feel/act/respond on the basis of that evaluation.

You should listen to me because I might bring you some useful information-whether that information helps you confirm your previous belief, challenges you to provide a better answer for it or leads you to consider an alternative belief. That’s one of the beauties of being human and created in the image of God-our thoughts and ideas can be transformed as we grow and learn.

Thoughts?

 

[Pwrlftr]

By what authority, do you derive your power to try to influence others here, on religion, or the issues of faith and morals?

There seems to be many here, who are eager to give advice and try to define Christianity and I am wondering; by what authority do you do this?

Which authority, allows you to tell me and/or others here, what we should believe?

Why should we listen to you?

Why should anyone listen to you? Do you have any authority to teach others? Do you have any formal education in theology or biblical studies?

 

[a_priori]

Why should we listen to you?

This is a question that people throughout the ages should have asked more often. Because the answer most of the time is “You shouldn’t”.

The classic quote here is: “Preach the gospel at all times and if necessary use words.” - St.Francis of Assisi

 

[JonNC]

By what authority, do you derive your power to try to influence others here, on religion, or the issues of faith and morals?

There seems to be many here, who are eager to give advice and try to define Christianity and I am wondering; by what authority do you do this?

Which authority, allows you to tell me and/or others here, what we should believe?

Why should we listen to you?

If unity, as Christ commands, is important to you.

We should listen (not just hear) at least as much as we speak.
Listening is actually and really concentrating on what is being said, and not just a time when one plans what to say next.

We should be willing to explore new ways of explaining what we believe that brings us closer together in understanding.

Each one of us must also learn to speak in a way that at least makes it tolerable for the audience to listen. Condemnations, polemics, insults make listening impossible.

Jon

 

[Jimmy_B]

This is a question that people throughout the ages should have asked more often. Because the answer most of the time is “You shouldn’t”.

The classic quote here is: “Preach the gospel at all times and if necessary use words.” - St.Francis of Assisi

Hello a priori

Excellent post and thank you for posting one of my favorite quotes…A quote that I should pay more attention to.

Merry Christmas! - Happy Birthday Baby Jesus!