Why so many Protestant denominations

[jblake]

jmcrae;:

which will make it difficult for you to retain a job in paid ministry.

Methodists are ecumenical enough that Drew might be able to have a permanent pulpit with one of their churches. There are also “New Age Christian” denominations that wouldn’t have any issues with that aspect of the theology.

xan

jonathon

 

[jblake]

estesbob;:

Why is you personal interpretation any more valid than theirs?

I don’t make that claim.

I disagree with their conclusions, but that does not mean that their conclusions are invalid. Merely different understandings based upon different axioms, and starting points.

(There is a 5,000 character limit to messages here, otherwise I’d post the essay on why God intended that there be a plethora of denominations.)

xan

jonathon

 

[DebChris]

The commandment from Christ to receive the Eucharist is found in John 6:53-55, which says,

**
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.**

The requirement is repeated at least four more times, in the Last Supper accounts in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and in the instruction from St. Paul on the Eucharist in I Corinthians 11.

Mary, the Mother of Our Lord, had the Lord within her and held him in her arms. When we receive Holy Communion, we hold the Lord in our hands and receive him into our lives–as close as he ever was to Mary. (The Little Blue Book based on the writings Bishop Ken Untener)

A Denomination, is a group of people within a faith that has its own system of organization. As Catholics, weather we may be conservative or liberal in our thinking, we do not act on our own but follow the teachings and doctrine of the Roman catholic church, especially the Charismatic renewal Catholic Movement , not denomination. This movement along with all the other movements within the Catholic Church are people who are organized and moved by the holy spirit to effect constructive change in an effort to know and live our faith as Christians , they do not change doctrine nor work to oppose the teachings of the church . Once they have done so , then it is them who have separated themselves from the church .

Good summary of what others and myself have been trying to express.

 

[jediliz]

Do you any real world examples for this assertion that people leave for just any frivilous reason?

Lets test your theory. In your city go to 3 or 4 different protestant churches and look at their doctinal statements on what they believe and compare them with each other.
See what they say about Jesus Christ and Scripture. Do they agree or disagree?

1. Henry the VIII wanted a divorce. The Church refused to grant him one. He ‘starts’ what eventually becomes the Church of England.
2. Martin Luther – His leaving the church (he was a German monk) eventually became the Lutheran religion.
3. The Puritans. They didn’t like the Catholic faith, they wanted to “purify” it. They banned Christmas and other holidays.

 

[estesbob]

Protestants are often accused of picking and choosing what scriptures thet quote. However this seems to be the case with the Catholic interpretation of John 6:48-55. They interpret it as being literal without considering the whole discourse running from verse 26-62. Can you give me the Catholic interpretation that doesn’t result in a conflict between the various absolute, unconditional statements Jesus makes?

 

[estesbob]

Protestants are often accused of picking and choosing what scriptures thet quote. However this seems to be the case with the Catholic interpretation of John 6:48-55. They interpret it as being literal without considering the whole discourse running from verse 26-62. Can you give me the Catholic interpretation that doesn’t result in a conflict between the various absolute, unconditional statements Jesus makes?

The Catholic Church and its members are not restricted within the narrow confines of Soila Scriptura. The Church has no line by line interpreation of Scripture Protestants are so fond of… There is a three part test when looking at a matter of doctrine. That is:

1.Is it suported by Scripturfe?
2. Is it supported by tradtion?
3. is is supported by the teachings of the magestruim?

The real preasence passes all three of these tests. Your personal interpretion of John pasees only the first one and then only if one rejects the interpreation accepted for the first 1,5000 years after the death of Christ… it fails the other two outright.

 

[estesbob]

I don’t make that claim.

I disagree with their conclusions, but that does not mean that their conclusions are invalid. Merely different understandings based upon different axioms, and starting points.

xan

jonathon

There conclusions can be valid? There can be more than one version of the Truth? 30,000 different versions of the Truth?

 

[SyCarl]

The Catholic Church and its members are not restricted within the narrow confines of Soila Scriptura. The Church has no line by line interpreation of Scripture Protestants are so fond of… There is a three part test when looking at a matter of doctrine. That is:

1.Is it suported by Scripturfe?
2. Is it supported by tradtion?
3. is is supported by the teachings of the magestruim?

The real preasence passes all three of these tests. Your personal interpretion of John pasees only the first one and then only if one rejects the interpreation accepted for the first 1,5000 years after the death of Christ… it fails the other two outright.

Can I assume then that you cannot give a coherent interpretaion of the entire bread of life discourse? You just pick out of it the part that supports the Catholic Church’s view? If you note, my interpretation was in line with Augustine.

 

[DrewC]

I used to be Catholic and that is where I got these teachings and it is what I believe. However, I want to get married and be a minister and that just isnt possible in the Catholic Church.

I read on here that someone said that only Catholics are going to get into Heaven. I 100% disagree with that statement. There are going to be just as many protestants in Heaven as there will be Catholics, assuming they lead a Christ-like life. Its statements like that, that really turn people off when it comes to Catholicisim. Isnt that almost a heretic statement to say that only Catholics are saved? We all believe in Jesus Christ, we just have different doctrines, thats what seperates the Churches. We are all different parts of ONE BODY that is CHRIST!

 

[DebChris]

DrewC;3119831]I used to be Catholic and that is where I got these teachings and it is what I believe. However, I want to get married and be a minister and that just isnt possible in the Catholic Church.
I read on here that someone said that only Catholics are going to get into Heaven. I 100% disagree with that statement. There are going to be just as many protestants in Heaven as there will be Catholics, assuming they lead a Christ-like life. Its statements like that, that really turn people off when it comes to Catholicisim. Isnt that almost a heretic statement to say that only Catholics are saved? We all believe in Jesus Christ, we just have different doctrines, thats what seperates the Churches. We are all different parts of ONE BODY that is CHRIST!

We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. There has been much progress over the past decades toward the unity for which Christ prayed. Many non-Catholic denominations now use the same liturgical calendar as the Catholic Church, for instance.
It is true according to Church discipline that a person may not become a priest if married. There are however other ministries in which a lay person may engage. There is a the deaconate as well as lay ministry programs. There are as many ways to serve Christ as there are individuals. There is no need to leave the Church in order find the way to which Christ may be calling you.

 

[DrewC]

There are no deacons in my diocese and deacons dont get paid enough to live on, they get paid a stipend. Ive tried to go down that road before. I have exhausted all routes in the Catholic Church to become something that you can make a living doing and preaching the Gospel. I feel God is calling me to be a preacher and Im going to follow that call.

 

[BrianH]

There are no deacons in my diocese and deacons dont get paid enough to live on, they get paid a stipend. Ive tried to go down that road before. I have exhausted all routes in the Catholic Church to become something that you can make a living doing and preaching the Gospel. I feel God is calling me to be a preacher and Im going to follow that call.

While you retain some very Catholic beliefs that seperate us from them, you will find enough common ground to be fine. Good luck to you.

 

[jmcrae]

Can I assume then that you cannot give a coherent interpretaion of the entire bread of life discourse? You just pick out of it the part that supports the Catholic Church’s view? If you note, my interpretation was in line with Augustine.

Augustine believed in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. If you’re going to cite Augustine, don’t pick and choose.

With regard to the interpretation of John 6, the Catholic interpretation is the only one that takes every verse of the chapter into account, beginning in verse one and going all the way to the very end.

 

[DrewC]

Thank you Brian and God bless you!

 

[jmcrae]

I used to be Catholic and that is where I got these teachings and it is what I believe. However, I want to get married and be a minister and that just isnt possible in the Catholic Church.

Yes, you can - you can’t be a priest, but there are tons of lay ministries in the Catholic Church, and a lot of them pay as well or better than ministry in a Protestant church. (Which doesn’t pay very much, either - if you thought the Deacon’s pay was a “stipend,” wait 'til you try feeding a family on what they pay Protestant ministers.)

I read on here that someone said that only Catholics are going to get into Heaven. I 100% disagree with that statement. There are going to be just as many protestants in Heaven as there will be Catholics, assuming they lead a Christ-like life.

They will be Catholic by the time they get to Heaven, though, as it shows us in the Book of Revelation that it is the Catholic Mass that is going on in Heaven; not a service of Protestant worship.

Its statements like that, that really turn people off when it comes to Catholicisim. Isnt that almost a heretic statement to say that only Catholics are saved? We all believe in Jesus Christ, we just have different doctrines, thats what seperates the Churches. We are all different parts of ONE BODY that is CHRIST!

Different doctrines means different eternal destinations, since doctrine is the paving stones of the road on which we travel. If you are travelling on different paving stones, then you are on a different road, and you are going someplace else.

We have to believe what Jesus taught to His Church - we can’t just make stuff up as we go along, and then expect to end up in the same place as Jesus.

 

[DrewC]

If we are all truly Christians we will all walk the same narrow path! And Im not in the ministry business for the money, Im in it for leading souls to Christ!

 

[SyCarl]

Augustine believed in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. If you’re going to cite Augustine, don’t pick and choose.

With regard to the interpretation of John 6, the Catholic interpretation is the only one that takes every verse of the chapter into account, beginning in verse one and going all the way to the very end.

From my original post.

My interpretation of this passage agrees with Augustine’s. Note this does not necessarily mean Augustine does not believe in the real presence but just that this passage doesn’t do so

Perhaps you can refer me to a Catholic interpretation, particulairly one that reconciles verses 40, 51, 53 & 54.

 

[jfallaw]

And they often have diametrically opposed doctrines about the nature of Jesus and what it takes to be saved. It would seem like a dispute over how ones immortal soul is saved is a difference that can not be papered over by asserting “well we all love Jesus”

If , as many in this thread contend, that are no major differences why did the Church go from one Faith to 30.000 diferent versions of the faith in the last 500 years?

how does a comment about using a belief in and love of Jesus, no matter the details, as a starting point in dialogue, become an assertion intended to paper over anything? It looks like for some people the point is not even salvation- it’s just a love of debate.

 

[BrianH]

(Which doesn’t pay very much, either - if you thought the Deacon’s pay was a “stipend,” wait 'til you try feeding a family on what they pay Protestant ministers.)

The MINIMUM starting salary in my conference is

“$32,760 Full Member Elder or Deacon
$30,660 Probationary Elder, Deacon, or
Associate Member”

Those would be our very smallest churches, 50 people or less. That DOES NOT include the housing allowance, you can live off even that little in Kansas. Its not about the money but let us be accurate please.

 

[estesbob]

how does a comment about using a belief in and love of Jesus, no matter the details, as a starting point in dialogue, become an assertion intended to paper over anything? It looks like for some people the point is not even salvation- it’s just a love of debate.

If there are no major differences why arent you Catholic?

BTW-the point is salvation-our seperated breheren have come up with a whole myriad of ways one is saved, when they are saved an whether salvation can be lost once it is supposedly obtained. Differences in how one attains eteranl salvation are huge differences indeed.