Why so many Protestant denominations

[jfallaw]

If there are no major differences why arent you Catholic?

BTW-the point is salvation-our seperated breheren have come up with a whole myriad of ways one is saved, when they are saved an whether salvation can be lost once it is supposedly obtained. Differences in how one attains eteranl salvation are huge differences indeed.

I am Catholic! And I’m sorry, I thought the original topic was comparative religion, though it seems the main difference between denominations is their belief in the definition of Salvation. But anyways, all I was saying is that too often, just like on this thread, logical debate quickly declines into a ‘us vs. them’ match in which the participants lose all sight of what the originbal topic was and just get into the whole name-calling and personal attacks. God knows I’ve found myself doing it. My point was that if we keep in mind that those we are speaking with, no matter their particular denomination, are still Christians (assuming we’re not debating atheists!), then maybe we would be better able to keep in mind the fact that name-calling and other personal attacks are not resorted to by Christians. Wow, guess my original post had nothing to do with the topic, after all! Great.

 

[Bamm]

Let’s suppose for one moment that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only true church. Then all the Protestant denominations and other religions are the result of the one and only true church failing to keep unification within its ranks. So, it pretty much failed at its mission. Wouldn’t ya say?

Bamm

 

[sandmountainsli]

Let’s suppose for one moment that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only true church. Then all the Protestant denominations and other religions are the result of the one and only true church failing to keep unification within its ranks. So, it pretty much failed at its mission. Wouldn’t ya say?

Bamm

Hmmmm…never looked at it quite like THAT
The Catholics MUST have fallen into somewhat of a corrupt state by the 16th Century or everyone would not have been jumping ship. My church is traced via Wesley to the COE and via the COE to Augustine so I can see roots to the Apostles within my own denomination.
WP

 

[estesbob]

Let’s suppose for one moment that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only true church. Then all the Protestant denominations and other religions are the result of the one and only true church failing to keep unification within its ranks. So, it pretty much failed at its mission. Wouldn’t ya say?

Bamm

No-it is still going strong after 2,000 years. Still ahdering to the basic truths entrusted to it by Our Lord and Savior 2,000 years ago. You are welcome to come home anytimew you like.

 

[estesbob]

Hmmmm…never looked at it quite like THAT
The Catholics MUST have fallen into somewhat of a corrupt state by the 16th Century or everyone would not have been jumping ship. My church is traced via Wesley to the COE and via the COE to Augustine so I can see roots to the Apostles within my own denomination.
WP

The same Augustine who said this?:

"[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church’s] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15–17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here.* And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, i**n the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all heretics want to be called ‘Catholic,’ when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house" (Against the Letter of Mani Called “The Foundation” 4:5 [A.D. 397]). *

 

[sandmountainsli]

The same Augustine who said this?:

"[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church’s] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15–17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here.** And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, i**n the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all heretics want to be called ‘Catholic,’ when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house" (Against the Letter of Mani Called “The Foundation” 4:5 [A.D. 397]).

Indeed! That is he, the Father Of The English Church and Archbishop of Canterbury himself. That is what bothers the Catholics of today, the fact that such an important part of the Original Church as the COE is no longer under the authority of Rome.
WP

 

[estesbob]

Indeed! That is he, the Father Of The English Church and Archbishop of Canterbury himself. That is what bothers the Catholics of today, the fact that such an important part of the Original Church as the COE is no longer under the authority of Rome.
WP

What bothers Catholics is that so many people have been led astray by false, manmade denominatiolns ? Your denomination was created by a man(mainly so he could marry his mistress) some 1500 years after Christ founded the One True Church. You can not find any evidence of your denomination prior to the 16th century and trying to claim a connection with Augusine, who accpeted the authority of the Pope, is ludicrous.

 

[guanophore]

Are you saying a person must belong to the “True Church” to be saved?

It is more the other way around. A saved person is a member of the Church.

 

[sandmountainsli]

What bothers Catholics is that so many people have been led astray by false, manmade denominatiolns ? Your denomination was created by a man(mainly so he could marry his mistress) some 1500 years after Christ founded the One True Church. You can not find any evidence of your denomination prior to the 16th century and trying to claim a connection with Augusine, who accpeted the authority of the Pope, is ludicrous.

Ummm…I am not Anglican my church (Methodism) sprang directly from Anglicanism in the 18th Century. As to the Anglicans claim to Augustine being “ludicrous” that is just a silly statement at least, the Church of England IS the church founded by Augustine and a huge part of the prior “One Catholic and Apostolic Church” which no longer exists except spiritually.
What alot of you fail to grasp is that the true Catholic (universal) Church ceased to exist after Rome broke from the Eastern Church and became the first denomination, in later years the Western Church itself broke into many other pieces and the fragment which remained loyal to Rome is just another fragment as is the COE and other denominations.
WP

 

[jblake]

jediliz;:

He ‘starts’ what eventually becomes the Church of England.

Had there not been theological disputes between Canterbury and Rome for more than a century prior to Henry VIII wanting a divorce, the split wouldn’t have happened.

1. Martin Luther – His leaving the church (he was a German monk) eventually became the Lutheran religion.

Luther was excommunicated because of the greed, avarice, and corruption within the German Catholic and Roman Catholic Church.

1. The Puritans. They didn’t like the Catholic faith,

The major Puritan objection was to the monarchy controlling the Church of England. The minor objection was how the Church of England was organized. Their attitude towards Catholicism is irrelevant in a discussion of how and why they evolved .

xan

jonathon

 

[jblake]

DrewC;:

However, I want to get married and be a minister and that just isn’t possible in the Catholic Church.

Orthodox Christianity might be closer to your theology, than Protestant Christianity. The downside is that not all Orthodox churches offer clergy anything more than a stipend. *

they get paid a stipend… something that you can make a living doing and preaching the Gospel.

Episcopal Church (USA), or one of the churches that is in full communion with the Church of England, and has a province in the United States might be more suitable than a Protestant Church.

You’ll probably need to go to an appropriate seminary, prior to being ordained in a Church.

xan

jonathon*

 

[jblake]

BrianH;:

$30,660 Probationary Elder, Deacon, or
Associate Member"… you can live off even that little in Kansas.

I don’t remember where Drew lives. (If that really is relevant.)
What counts is:

• The cost of housing;
• The cost of transportation;
• the cost of food;

Prudent finances would be:

• 25% for housing — this includes all utility bills;
• 10% for food;
• 5% for transportation;

That would be US$639 a month for housing. The housing allowance might change that figure slightly.

Whilst one can found housing for that little in major cities, is that housing in a neighborhood that the church members are willing to go to? And will it be suitable for church members to visit? (Suitable as in "is it big enough for a study area that contains an “emotional couch”?)

$128 per month for transportation. Bicycle and public transportation would cover that. Assuming a very economical car, that would pay for enough gas to drive 850 miles a month. Except I forgot to factor in the cost of car insurance, car payment, and car maintenance into that figure.

Its not about the money but let us be accurate please.

Sounds like somebody who does not have a child or two.

xan

jonathon

 

[jblake]

sandmountainsli;:

What alot of you fail to grasp is that the true Catholic (universal) Church ceased to exist after Rome broke from the Eastern Church and became the first denomination,

a) I can’t tell if you mean Oriental Christianity or Orthodox Christianity by “Eastern Christianity”.

b) There were churches that were founded, and had very little, if any contact with their church from which the missionary that founded them came from, for decades, or longer. Typically these churches never knew about any of the Church Councils, until well after the fact.

xan

jonathon

 

[BrianH]

I don’t remember where Drew lives. (If that really is relevant.)

What counts is:

• The cost of housing;
• The cost of transportation;
• the cost of food;

 

[jmcrae]

If we are all truly Christians we will all walk the same narrow path! And Im not in the ministry business for the money, Im in it for leading souls to Christ!

“If we are all truly Christians …” - see, there’s the rub. Not believing in Christianity (the actual religion that Christ actually founded, I mean), means that you aren’t a “good” Christian.

Being Christian isn’t just about being “nice” - it’s about believing the Doctrines of the Christian Faith, and behaving as though they were actually true - examples: belonging to Christ’s Church (instead of to a Protestant church), and obeying its commandments and disciplines, instead of deciding on our own that we have a better idea than what Christ could have come up with (meaning: instead of starting up or joining a Protestant church).

 

[jmcrae]

Luther was excommunicated because of the greed, avarice, and corruption within the German Catholic and Roman Catholic Church.

Actually, he was excommunicated for heresy. He did that all by himself; he can’t blame that on anyone else. (And if he was trying to reform the Church, then why did he begin to promulgate heresy? That seems counterproductive, to me. )

 

[DebChris]

Lack of obedience and personal pride have led to division within the Christian community.
In the 12th century, St. Francis heard the command, “Rebuild my Church.” He embraced spiritual and material poverty in order to fulfill this command, remaining obedient to Church authority throughout his life.
Ignatius of Loyola, who founded the Jesuits, was not called to embrace material poverty to the same extent as Francis. Several times, according to his autobiography, he was arrested while developing his Spiritual Exercises. He was educated in Paris, a contemporary of Luther. As he grew more confident in his faith, instead of waiting for the inquistor to arrest him, he approached the inquistor, basically saying, “I hear you have a bone to pick with me.” In other words, he submitted his Spiritual Exercises to Church authority and they were accepted as a valid means of seeking grace.
Humility goes further than pride in maintaining and restoring relationship. In anger, Luther posted his position on the door of the church. What did Luther, an Augustinian really teach? He had a strong devotion to Mary. He encouraged confession. The difference between Lutherns and Catholics lies on the Faith and Works issue.
We will agree at the moment that without God we can do nothing without Christ Jesus (Parable of the branches on the Vine). The Catholic Church taught a doctrine of “Faith +Works=Salvation.” Luther modified this teaching to “Faith leads us to perform those works that lead to Salvation.” (Reformed Faith). Those who followed Luther changed what he taught. “Faith leading to works” became simply “Faith leads to salvation” and the teachings of James were ignored. The early reformers maintained infant baptism. As Jewish infants entered the Old Covenant through circumcision, we enter the New Covenant through Baptism. The anabaptists rejected infant Baptism in favor of the believer’s Baptism. How doctrines were changed through time can continue to be listed without changing the reality that we are divided while Christ prayed for our unity.
Dialogue, conversation across differences, begins by recognizing what we do share in common. In any discussion, the historical environment in which individuals lived needs to be considered. The invention of the printing press changed how rapidly information traveled. Books were no longer a luxury. The Church had grown into a political entity.

 

[guanophore]

Let’s suppose for one moment that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only true church. Then all the Protestant denominations and other religions are the result of the one and only true church failing to keep unification within its ranks. So, it pretty much failed at its mission. Wouldn’t ya say?

Bamm

Yes, I think this is true. However, the role of the Church is to preserve the Teachings as they were delivered once and for all by Jesus. It is the role of the disciple to obey Jesus. The Church has the power, given by Christ, to define and clarify the Teachings. She does not have the power to “keep unification”. Made in the image and likeness of God, she cannot tramp on the free will of the members in the body. If they choose to depart from the Teachings, their choice must be respected.

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us."

 

[sahara]

It seems to me that the founders of each denomination believed they found some revelation in scripture that catholics and other protestants missed. Each one with their own interpretations of scripture that can’t possibly be lead by the holy spirit. The holy spirit will not say to one man that this verse means this and say to another that it means that. In my view the nature of protestantism is division. Following sola scriptura is mans way of following their own way and not gods way since each denomination uses scripture according to their founders understanding. Peter states that many of Paul’s letters are difficult to understand which people twist to their own destruction. Protestants claim that “the main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things” is pleasing to the ear but doesn’t even stand up to scripture itself. Peter told us there would be false teachers who will use scripture to turn people away from the church. Since christ said that hell would not overcome the church and he will be with his church til the end should make anyone re-think the protestants insistance of sola scriptura as a sole rule of faith just by looking at the chaos that has resulted.

 

[paarsurrey]

should make anyone re-think the protestants insistance of sola scriptura as a sole rule of faith just by looking at the chaos that has resulted.

Hi

It is not that only Sola Scriptura has resulted into divisions in denominations, if you rethink it is a useful belief. There are many factors which have resulted into divisions and denominations. The Catholics are also divided into many factions/sects for which kindly see any encyclopedia.

Unless a conserted move is made for unity, this process of divisions and further divisions would continue, maybe excelerated. Nobody seems to be interested for Unity or One Christendom, though at the same time Catholics acknowledge that this a pre-condition of Jesus’ Second Coming. Sometimes I feel they are not even interested in Jesus’ Second Coming; maybe it is only a rhetoric.

Thanks