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paidion
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This is certainly news to me… I’ve never heard anything like this before.
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DebChris
Guest
As Catholics, we have an obligation to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. The word “obligation” carries with it a connotation of “I must do this.” For some it is simply a matter of following the rules. If, however, we are called to live in love, going to Mass and spending time in worship becomes less an obligation and more a desire of the heart. It is something we do, not because we must, but because we want to.
Throughout scriptures, the covenantial relationship to which God calls us is often compared to that of a marriage. How will a marital relationship grow and develop if the couple never spends time with each other? One of the most basic ways that a couple spends time with each other is at meals. At Mass, we come together as a family to the table of our Lord. We are called to gather together, this commandment has been enjoined upon us, in order that we may grow closer to one another and to God. Our relationship to God becomes more initimate as we surrender ourselves to Him and allow God to pour His grace upon us. There is often an emotional response when we become aware of the greatness of the gifts that we have indeed received. Words fall short when it comes to describing what it means to have a close and initimate relationship with the very One who created us.
I just wanted to bring forth a different perspective to the question that you raised.
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DebChris
Guest
Politics also plays a large role in the development of the different denominations. The following historical information comes from the Christian Almanac.
1687 Edict issued by the Duke of Savoy gave the Waldoans two choices: (1) Cross the Alps to Geneva or (2) Renounce your faith and be given new home in the (malaria infested) Piedmont.
To imply that non-Catholics lack a devotional life is not only contrary to Catholic teaching, it does a disservice to those who have sacrificed their lives for the sake of the gospel.
1933 Hitler was seen as “a gift of mercy from God’s hands” promising to restore “law and order, morality, and traditional values” There may be somebody on this thread who has a copy of his law and order speech that became a poster often hung in college dorms.
Expected to bring spiritual renewal to the German people, the new Nazi administration produced a constitution for a unified national church with two restrictions. The church must (1) be politically subservient to the Nazis and (2) accept the superiority of the Aryan race.
The Confessing Church, the underground Protestant Church of Germany, believed the church should have full freedom to serve God apart from political influence. The leaders of the Confessing Church (including Karl Barth, Martin Niemoller, and Dietrich Boenhoeffer) declared unity “can come only from the word of God in faith through the Holy Spirit.”
These leaders were martyred for their faith.
1687 Edict issued by the Duke of Savoy gave the Waldoans two choices: (1) Cross the Alps to Geneva or (2) Renounce your faith and be given new home in the (malaria infested) Piedmont.
To imply that non-Catholics lack a devotional life is not only contrary to Catholic teaching, it does a disservice to those who have sacrificed their lives for the sake of the gospel.
1933 Hitler was seen as “a gift of mercy from God’s hands” promising to restore “law and order, morality, and traditional values” There may be somebody on this thread who has a copy of his law and order speech that became a poster often hung in college dorms.
Expected to bring spiritual renewal to the German people, the new Nazi administration produced a constitution for a unified national church with two restrictions. The church must (1) be politically subservient to the Nazis and (2) accept the superiority of the Aryan race.
The Confessing Church, the underground Protestant Church of Germany, believed the church should have full freedom to serve God apart from political influence. The leaders of the Confessing Church (including Karl Barth, Martin Niemoller, and Dietrich Boenhoeffer) declared unity “can come only from the word of God in faith through the Holy Spirit.”
These leaders were martyred for their faith.
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2ndGen
Guest
No doubt.
Of course, I don’t think that NCC’s lack a devotional life. Did I miss something? The Catholic Church teaches us to love our Christian brethren and that they too are Christians by virtue of our common Baptism.
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DebChris
Guest
I would have to look back through the thread to find the post that made the accusation and I wanted to respond to it with the teachings from the CCC concerning our shared Baptism, as you have done. It was not your post.
The other issue raised along the thread had to do with the name identifying the followers of Jesus Christ. Those who accepted Jesus as the Messiah were known for following the way of life that He taught. As a result, they were called Followers of the Way or Followers of the Way of the Messiah. Messiah, which means “annointed” translates into Latin as “Christos” leading to the Romans using the name Christian to identify a follower of Christ,
As the Church grew, it became known as the universal Church and we see the term Catholic Church being used in the writings of St. Augustine. It may be that Catholic became capitalized in order to differentiate the Church from the heresies that threatened it. I leave that discussion to others more familiar with the timeline regarding the name changes by which we have been known. These name changes have nothing to do with Constantine nor do they imply a division among the followers of Jesus Christ.
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paidion
Guest
Well said. That is and was the point of Torah.
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COGHOBDOJ
Guest
The context of my comment was that the other poster said he felt Protestant services was retreads of the same old thing. My perspective was my experience in the Catholic Church was that the Mass was the same old thing. I just wanted to point out that we had mirroring experiences.
As for what the my church relies on for success? When the very first lost person received God’s Plan for Salvation through faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection, THAT made the church a success. We’ve been blessed to share the Gospel with many more, each lost person snatched from Hell is a “win” for our church.
As for your speculation, from my birth until I was 28 yrs old I attended Catholic Church. I loved the time there, I didn’t leave mad, I wasn’t “church shopping.” My SIL invited me to their non denom church for my nieces baptism. We like it and started going there. From that point on, my spiritual life has exploded. I just believe this is where God wanted me and my family. This is the environment I needed to grow spiritually.
This is what drives me NUTS! I’ve become closer to God through bible reading/study, prayer, service in my local church. I’ve become a better husband and father, but some here say its all wrong.
Maybe God loves us enough to supply different environments for us to flourish spiritually. Maybe, the True Gospel can be preached in different churches, even though those churches worship differently.
I’ve been through these debates for the last 6 years and I understand that there will always be difference of opinions about doctrine, traditions and such. But, with many people growing in Christ in Catholic and Protestant environments, I can’t see why we can’t accept the Fruits that God is producing through those that draw close to Him.
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COGHOBDOJ
Guest
Well, I have read through the OT and NT rather frequently over the past 6 years. For me, I see more of God wanting me to change my heart and mind into the image of Christ much more than I see of God wanting me to take Eucharist every week, confess to a priest, etc, etc. (All of which is good, if that’s the way you want to walk with and worship.)
I see alot of my present church when I read The Book of Acts. For me, I’ve learned alot more about Jesus in the past 6 years than I have in the first 28yrs of my life. But, I don’t encourage people to leave their church. But, I encourage people to draw closer to God.
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COGHOBDOJ
Guest
Why would numbers matter anyway? Think about it. If you have 100 people in a church, Catholic or non Catholic, do you really think each of the 100 people are truly saved? Have all 100 in each church truly surrendered their lives to Christ, truly accepted God’s Plan of Salvation through faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection?So, what we need to do, then, is divide the 33,000 by 238, and then subtract one (for the Catholic Church) to get the number of non-Catholic ecclesial organizations that are in the world.
If we do that, we actually get 137 non-Catholic Christian organizations. That actually sounds way more plausible, to me.
This is another reason I see this debate as USELESS. There are many in both churches that go cause that’s what they think they are supposed to do on Sundays. Many in both churches are hell bound cause they do it with the wrong heart.
It’s such a shame that we’re proudly holding up our numbers, figures and statistics. Claiming this and claiming that. Its all so useless.
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estesbob
Guest
Why does any of the of that preclude you from receiving the Eucharist and confessing to a Priest? And if you have read the New Testament several times in the last six years how could you miss that these are an integral part of being a Chistian? That Christ COMMANDED us to do both?
Then why didnt anyone from the inception of he Book of Acts to around 1,500 AD not see any of your denomination in the Church? Why did God allow his Chruch to be in error for such a long period of time? What special ingiht did the "reformers ave that escaped all who wnet before them?
I do encourage you to to leave your denominationand return to the Church where you will not only be be closer to God but where you can actually hold him in your hands and follow his admonition to eat his Body and drink his Blood.
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2ndGen
Guest
It even goes back farther than Augustine to Ignatius 110 A.D.;
“Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be;
even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”
Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
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2ndGen
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COGHOBDOJ
Guest
We do take part in Communion. We both know the arguments on both sides about how often and the details and I don’t want to get into that, its fruitless. I know that my confession of my heart to The Holy Spirit are sufficient. I also have my wife, accountability partners and friends that I share my struggles with.
I’m sorry, but I just don’t believe God’s priority is in running churches. His priority is that the lost come to know Christ and that Believers and followers of Christ grow in Him to serve His Kingdom. Church is just a tool for us to grow individually and to work together as The Body to fulfill The Great Commision.
This may sound crude, but I don’t mean any harm, but The Catholic Church had me for 28 years and I was never encouraged to grow closer to God and serve Him fully. I know this church is where God wants me. This is the environment that I can flourish spiritually. If your church is right for you, that’s where God wants you.
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c659smith
Guest
Because it allows them to change the word of God to what is more conveinent. It allows them to serve many Gods.
The God of Money as they say they are justified through faith alone. Actions or deeds such as feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, etc… not necessary so they do not have to give alms or go out of their waqy to love one another as themselves.
They san divorce and marry many times as there is no sin of the flesh and one does not have to worry about ones actions in this life as long as they have faith.
If you do not like the teachings of church they deny that this church or that church is needed.
The list goes on and on for the reasons of divisions within the Protestant Community but mainly one fact if you do not like a paticular definiton of a part of the bible they will searc out one that does or start their own.
Remember no one to report to but oneself. Selfishness.
The God of Money as they say they are justified through faith alone. Actions or deeds such as feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, etc… not necessary so they do not have to give alms or go out of their waqy to love one another as themselves.
They san divorce and marry many times as there is no sin of the flesh and one does not have to worry about ones actions in this life as long as they have faith.
If you do not like the teachings of church they deny that this church or that church is needed.
The list goes on and on for the reasons of divisions within the Protestant Community but mainly one fact if you do not like a paticular definiton of a part of the bible they will searc out one that does or start their own.
Remember no one to report to but oneself. Selfishness.
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COGHOBDOJ
Guest
COGHOBDOJ;3159561:
That was a blessing to me. Just when I thought I was hitting walls and regretted coming here, you lifted me up, encouraged me and your comments were edifying.If I may comment on this…I’m a firm believer that God calls people to where He wants them to.
Many times I’ve come across Muslims who were better human beings and closer to Christ than Bible Thumpin’, Scripture Quotin’ pseudo-Christians.
So, if you found yourself to be a better Christian in a different church, God bless you brother! I applaud you. That is your home.
Romans 2 reflect that. Jesus Christ is the Messiah of inclusion, not of exclusion.
And that’s it. The fruits. There aren’t many anti-Catholic Protestants here because they know better. If they stick their head in here, it’s like poking a stick in a hornets nest.
But look at the fruits of those Protestants who come here? Most are Christians at heart. They obviously have an interest in “common union.” They log in and engage.
I’ve been to Protestant sites that just don’t want to hear what I have to say period.
Christianity is what “they” decide it is. And they hurt my feelings.
I’m so glad for those of you Protestants who come here and engage (converts or cradle protestants). You are growing the intellectual storehouses of Catholics. But Catholic.com allowing you here with your opposing/agreeing views, we benefit most.
Those other sites that don’t allow this?
They are the losers as are those Catholics and Protestants who disqualify one another because they are on the other side of the fence.
That was Spirit led. It was “Life Giving.”
God Bless you.
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2ndGen
Guest
Luke 9:49-50
And John answered and said,
“Master, we saw one casting out demons in thy name;
and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us.”
But Jesus said unto him,
“Forbid him not: for he that is not against you is for you.”
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2ndGen
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c659smith
Guest
And all Christians that live the faith are Christians.
Your gonna get a fight here by the protestants as faith alone is what they preach and living the faith requires actions and deeds and they say they do not have to. Remember faith alone is their motto
Your gonna get a fight here by the protestants as faith alone is what they preach and living the faith requires actions and deeds and they say they do not have to. Remember faith alone is their motto
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COGHOBDOJ
Guest
COGHOBDOJ;3159704:
You da man! Well said. Look forward to sharing and learning with you.
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COGHOBDOJ
Guest
Faith without works is dead. Please, ask first, before blanketing all Protestants with that belief. That’s why I like the term non denominational; I’m not protesting anything or anybody. I’m just a sinner, living in a fallen world, saved by Grace and trying to serve God’s Kingdom.
How can we receive God’s Gift of Salvation and NOT obey His wisdom and Word?
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