P
Porknpie
Guest
But that is why CAF exists…to explain and defend…
- Status
P
Porknpie
Guest
The Church has sinners Ben…and we’ve had some Popes … very few…that stood out as sinners. But… on faith and morals, the Church can not error as it is protected by Christ himself. Not trying to pick apart your faith either…just showing the some inconsistency between what you say and do.
Well Catholics do a lot of kneeling at Mass…it’s a good thing to kneel.
I didn’t say that or even think that …but it’s a big admission for a LCMS member to say. Stubborn Germans you tend to be. :yup:
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
Amen!But that is why CAF exists…to explain and defend…
Why we need the Church to help us interpret the Bible:
A
adf417
Guest
P
PRmerger
Guest
LOL! I watched it twice before I realized he was turning the pages with one hand, while licking his fingers on the other hand (for apparently no reason whatsoever).
S
Simka
Guest
Mea culpa. (I’m usually much better at identifying my sources; I guess I just became a bit shy over being accused of taking everything out of context.) You could still use that, here, if you wish.
I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
D
Daniel_Lysinger
Guest
Simka, is there any biblical support for using the Bible, and the Bible only, to gain the knowledge of God? Where in the Bible does it say “Sola Scriptura?” I do not see any place where it is even implied that we should use the Bible only.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Apology accepted, although it caused me no inconvenience at all.
It’s just important to always make it clear when what one writes are not his own words, to give credit to the actual author.
T
Tomster
Guest
S
Simka
Guest
No, not that I am aware of; in general terms, the practice came from a recognition of Scripture as the Inspired (therefore infallible) Word of God, and the authority of Scripture derived from that. It was common practice to rely on that authority in teaching the faith, and in setting doctrine. If there is no higher authority than God’s word, then any other resource that agreed with Scripture was a duplication; and other resource that disagreed was rejected.
But knowledge involves more than just doctrinal belief. There is no suggestion, so far as I am aware, that all knowledge about every aspect of the faith is contained in Scripture. That certainly is not a SS position.
T
Tomster
Guest
It takes an infallible interpreter to interpret "the inspired (therefore infallible) Word of God. Nothing else will do. Spare us the guesswork please.
P
PRmerger
Guest
If you could please explain what you mean by this practice of “recognition of Scripture”.
How was it that the early Christians did this?
P
PRmerger
Guest
Well, that is not your SS position. As has been illustrated quite remarkably here, there are lots of definitions of what the SS position is.
You seem to be cognizant of the fact that SS is never mentioned, ever, in the Bible, therefore don’t go by the SS definition that says “all knowledge about every aspect of the faith is contained in Scripture.”
Kudos to you for acknowledging this!
But as for your claim above, well, it has been shown otherwise. There are indeed some Protestant folks who do claim that all knowledge about every aspect of the faith is contained in Scripture.
S
Simka
Guest
Guesswork? What am I guessing at? Sorry, Tomster, I don’t understand the meaning of your criticism.
The OT was recognized as Inspired long before Christ and His Apostles walked the earth. The interpretations were accomplished by religious leaders through the ages. No doubt some of them were “Inspired” but not every passage in Scripture was considered so mysterious as to defy understanding without an “infallible” interpreter.
God’s inspiration of the Scriptures that emerged during the Apostolic era were similarly recognized. And today you and I can read Paul’s letters, for example (well, the translations, anyway), and interpret the vast majority of what he says, without putting ourselves at risk. (Some of it is more mysterious than the rest.)
I’m not infallible. I can make mistakes … but that shouldn’t preclude my prayerful reading, study, and learning. And I always welcome the insight and correction of an inspired teacher in helping me to better understand what Scripture means by what it says.
Teaching … what a gift that is!
P
PRmerger
Guest
S
Simka
Guest
You may be right; I am not aware of any. And I am only prepared to defend what I understand was the earliest articulation of the SS position, that “Scripture contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holy living.”
P
PRmerger
Guest
It would be advantageous to you if you did not claim to have the only def of SS. You have no authority to declare this to be so. You cannot speak for the millions of Protestant folks who hold to a different definition of SS.
Also, could you please provide your source that demonstrates that that your articulation is the earliest?
N
Nicea325
Guest
Simka:
Again please tell us who in the early church made an official declaration as to what is the correct definition of SS? Where is this “original” version you have mentioned numerous times?
BTW: In regards to Gregory of Nyssa, you posted:
Taken in context, their views are consistent with Gregory of Nyssa, who wrote: “We make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings.”)
Please try to answer the following and let us examine if you truly are presenting his words in their proper context.
1.Did Nyssa say those words because he was advocating or defending SS?
2 Tell me what did he mean by:…***harmonize with the intention of those writings. ***What writings?
3. Why did Nyssa say those words and to whom were they directed at?
4. What was going on at the time,which compellled him to convey such words?
5.What reasons did he have to defend Scripture in such a fashion in his above statement?
6. Kindly show me where Nyssa or any ECF ever say or teach: Scripture over everything else?
7., Please present one ECF who exhaustively writes on defending,promoting or justifies ONLY-Scripture and nothing else to defend the faith?
P
pablope
Guest
But Simka…how do you know your “inspired teacher” is teaching faith as handed down from the Apostles? How do you know he is not teaching you error?
Let me cite and give you the example of St. Paul:
Galatians 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.
Galatians 2:2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.
Paul had a direct revelation from Christ. Yet, from the two passages above, he goes to visit Cephas/Peter and submits himself to Peter. Gal 2: 2 states his purpose…to present his gospel/message to make sure it is in line with the Apostles and what they were handed down from Christ.
Your inspired teacher…how does he follow the example of St. Paul above? Who did he get assurance from that what he is teaching you is from the Apostles?
P
pablope
Guest
- Status