Why some conservative Catholics want to stop Pope John Paul II being made a saint

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Emphasis mine.

Lack of travelling does not equal ignoring you for Papal travells.

How many times did he go to the USA?

1979
1987
1993
1995

Considering how big the World is, I’d say he wasn’t ignoring the USA at all.
I completely agree with you! JPII Was an amazing man and he was appointed by God to his position. Before anyone jumps on me let me explain. I truly believe that God appoints our Pope. He will not let the wrong person be placed in that position. Granted, not all of our Popes were truly holy, saintly people but if you look back throughout history that man was the right man for the job durring that situation in time. Period.
 
I completely agree with you! JPII Was an amazing man and he was appointed by God to his position. Before anyone jumps on me let me explain. I truly believe that God appoints our Pope. He will not let the wrong person be placed in that position. Granted, not all of our Popes were truly holy, saintly people but if you look back throughout history that man was the right man for the job durring that situation in time. Period.
This is very true. And to remain on the topic of the thread, it asks a very poignant question. I want to direct our attention to that question. It asks why some people want to stop the canonization of Pope John Paul II. Herein lies the problem. The question itself assumes that someone or some group can stop the canonization of a saint. This is not possible.

Therefore, a reformulated question would be better. “Why do some Catholics oppose the canonization of John Paul II.” You certainly can oppose it, but you cannot stop it. If it is the will of God revealed to the Church, the canonization will take place, period.

That being said, it is important to remember that because John Paul was placed on the Chair of Peter, by the Holy Spirit, does not make him a saint. His sanctity is not determined by his place or role in the Church, but by his personal journey of faith. What the Church examines is whether or not this man lived his faith in a heroic manner. She does not look at his achievements during his papacy. His papacy may have been the best in the history of the Church or the greatest disaster and it takes nothing or adds nothing to his sanctiy. His sanctity is determined by his interior life of virtue.

Let’s for a moment assume that he was a disaster as a Pontiff. Well . . . there have been many saints who did a horrible job in their respective ecclesial roles. But whatever they did, they did it out of love for God and his Church. That love was pure. Their lives were lived in an ongoing communion with Christ and in immitation of Christ’s own virtues. This is sanctity.

As to whether one is in a friary or not, the truth remains the truth. The same truth that applies to a friar, a monk, a nun, a priest, also applies to a lay person. The universal call to holiness is the same for one and all. All of us are tiny pencils in God’s hand, as Mother Teresa said. All of us are insignificant and therefore, none of us should ever hang on to our opinions with such fervor as to forget that they are just that, our opinions, not revealed Truths. Only the Magisterium, mystics and very special individuals such as St. Faustina (in modern times) have been gifted with a direct experience of revelation. The rest of us journey through life simply trying to understand revealed truth. Our understanding can be very flawed, because we do not always have that sanctifying grace and the mystical experience necessary to see Truth. Most of us access Truth through the teachings of the scripture, Church and tradition. Anything that we formulate on our own must be kept in its proper perspective. It is our formulation and it is important only to us, because as Deacon Ed so eloquently pointed out, the Church is not a democracy.

In the end, whether one desires to see John Paul II canonized or not, we will have to settle for whatever the Church decides and assent to it, if we are to remain in communion with Peter, who will be the one to make the final determination.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
them. I have observed that many who continue the arguments are some who do not have the educational background in things “Church” as does Brother JR.
You wouldn’t know either my theological training or my religious training, which is considerable on both ends. It’s actually pretty arrogant to assume that you two are the only people on this thread with knowledge & credibility to have an opinion on this. You are not.
That being said, I would make a simple suggestion that people do not get their dander up so easily. Remember, the Church IS NOT a democracy.
I’m not the one who keeps objecting to harmless opinions. It seems that a certain other is the one who has his dander up, as well as those who do not approve of opposing opinions and have an agenda to silence those. I’ve said over and over that I understand the canonization process, so you can stop talking to me as if I’m a child or an ignoramus. I’m very educated, and specifically in these areas.

Read the title of the thread, “Why some conservative Catholics want…[etc.]”. Not "why some conservative Catholics think the Church is a democracy.’ :rolleyes: They have opinions. Again, people not doing the canonization get to have opinions, particularly if they’re very aware of the process, how decisions are made, and the many factors (there are many) that go into canonization.
Our discussing opinions as to whether someone is great or not is opinion. The underlying question, is what is that opinion based upon. Is it based upon a solid foundation of the Churches infallible teachings or is it formed by the secularism which is so prevalent with some who profess to be Catholic.
That is the most offensive of your statements. “Formed by the secularism”? “Profess to be Catholic”? Again, you don’t know to whom you’re talking, so I think it’s best if you stop right now with the implied rash judgments.

I do have an opinion. I will have an opinion. I will support those who have opposing opinions and listen thoughtfully to people who do not agree with me, but not support a single person who thinks he or she knows how “Catholic” I am, let alone how religiously educated I am, nor anyone who claims I must believe that the Church “is a democracy.”. No one else on this thread, or lurking, needs to feel intimidated by people who want to silence opinions. If the subject was disallowed on CAF, the thread would have been closed. It’s an acceptable subject to debate, and people on both sides are allowed to post as often as they wish, providing they stay within the TOS.
 
Elizabeth:

WHy do you sound so angry? Share with us your religious training and explain to us the reasons upon which you base your opinions.
 
You have an interesting interpretation of anger. I’m not angry. Standing up for every poster’s permission to post here (again, within TOS) is not an example of anger. I’m sorry that you consider submission to two of the posters a requirement for posting on this thread. (So do they consider it a requirement.) But it’s not a requirement and they don’t run CAF.) Nor do you. I’m happy for you that you happen to agree with them. That’s your right, equally with mine to have a different opinion. I don’t need your permission or their permission to have an opinion, nor do you need mine.🙂

I’ve already explained my reason for support of other posters’ positions. You can read them earlier on the thread.

P.S. Another poster has PM’ed me gratitude for supporting the positions of others and not just buying into popular expectations. That poster is also not “angry,” and certainly a reasonable thinker, as I’ve read the poster’s other opinions on several threads, so apparently I’m not off-base.

If you have a problem, however, with legitimate discussion which varies from your viewpoint, you’re certainly entitled to notify the forum administrators that only some posters should have the right to post, and not those who disagree with you or with your favorite viewpoints. I doubt very much they’ll agree with you. 😉

God bless,
E.
 
You have an interesting interpretation of anger. I’m not angry. Standing up for every poster’s permission to post here (again, within TOS) is not an example of anger. I’m sorry that you consider submission to two of the posters a requirement for posting on this thread. (So do they consider it a requirement.) But it’s not a requirement and they don’t run CAF.) Nor do you. I’m happy for you that you happen to agree with them. That’s your right, equally with mine to have a different opinion. I don’t need your permission or their permission to have an opinion, nor do you need mine.🙂

I’ve already explained my reason for support of other posters’ positions. You can read them earlier on the thread.

P.S. Another poster has PM’ed me gratitude for supporting the positions of others and not just buying into popular expectations. That poster is also not “angry,” and certainly a reasonable thinker, as I’ve read the poster’s other opinions on several threads, so apparently I’m not off-base.

If you have a problem, however, with legitimate discussion which varies from your viewpoint, you’re certainly entitled to notify the forum administrators that only some posters should have the right to post, and not those who disagree with you or with your favorite viewpoints. I doubt very much they’ll agree with you. 😉

God bless,
E.
I am glad that you are not angry. Perhaps you could try to not sound angry. Did I say that I agreed with the two posters that you are not angry with? Perhaps you could try not to jump to conclusions while you are not sounding angry.

Personally, I would like to see John Paul II canonized, but I would much rather like to see Pius IX canonized.
 
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