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rlg94086
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What?? You think we are all in a constant state of mortal sin?? That’s ridiculous. Who is teaching you this?
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agangbern
Guest
Yes! Did Jesus not experience humanity? Sure He did. But was he sexually attracted to a woman? The spirit of Mathew 5:28 tells us he was not.
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Pat_the_Cat
Guest
As I’ve pointed out before in other threads of a similar nature (Click Here)
There are some important issues you have brought up in your question!
I think it’s important for ALL of us to be aware of a couple of main points. A person who has same sex attraction is not necessarily the same as someone who engages in homosexual acts out of weakness, or someone who engages in these acts out of choice, and definitely not the same as someone who proclaims to be GAY. let me explain the terms:-
**1) Same-sex attraction **
A person who suffers from same sex attraction can live a life of chastity in full communion with the Catholic Church. This is a person who understands their sinful nature, and (like all of us who have a sinful nature) should avoid sin, temptation and occasion of sin.
2) Someone who engages in homosexual acts out of weakness
This is a person who is trying to live a Christian lifestyle, has accepted the Church’s teachings as true, but is struggling to fulfil the level of chastity call by the Church for all people.
3) Someone who engages in homosexual acts out of choice.
This is a person who may or may not know the teachings of the Church, but choses to participate in homo-sexual acts regardless, either through ignorance or disobedience.
**4) Someone who proclaims to be GAY. **
The people who “claim” to be GAY, may or may not fall into one of the above categories. But being gay means that the person has accepted the socio-political side of the Gay agenda. This mis-guided belief system/ psudo-religion wants to advance the notion that Homosexual acts are not (as the Church proclaims), wrong. But in fact is a natural expression of intimacy between consenting adults. Therefore Church Teachings, the Bible, the Natural law of Pro-creation are all wrong.
Being gay, engaging in homosexual acts and having homosexual tendencies are ***not ***the same thing. These terms are not synonymous. It is part of the Gay agenda to confuse these lines. We as Catholics must love the sinner; but not the sin.
People should NOT be defined by the sins they commit. We are more than the sum of our sins, failures or achievements. If we go along with this type of thinking it is going to become nigh on impossible to help those with same-sex attraction to embrace the faith. It is this type of thinking that supports the gay agenda, because someone who professes to be gay, believes that they cannot be seperate from their sinfulness (in thought or action), which is a complete contradiction to the Christian message of Jesus’ saving grace.
I believe that no-one who is truly gay, can be truly Catholic!
On the other hand someone can have same-sex attraction and still be a saint!
I hope this helps remove some of the confusion.
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goofyjim
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I repeat, and will bow out after this, that sexual attraction does not equal lust.
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Pat_the_Cat
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How true! :yup: Just as admiring someone’s car is not the same as coveting it.:nope:
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agangbern
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Did I say that? No. I said yes we should constantly pray…That was the substance of my reaction to the words you said: “Heaven help us!”
Peace be with you.
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agangbern
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“Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” This means the homosexuals are called to cease being homosexuals.
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rlg94086
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Unwittingly, it is what you said. Thank you for clarifying.
adangbern:
You are correct that we need to pray constantly and avoid sin, but we are not in a constant state of mortal sin. If this were the case, it would be nearly impossible for most people to be saved.
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goofyjim
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This means that they are not to entertain thoughts or commit the acts. If they still experience the attraction then they are not necessarily violating chastity. What don’t you understand about this?
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rlg94086
Guest
No, it does not. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of lust and attraction, as pointed out by goofyjim. Chastity is not a life without attraction. It is a life where we control our carnal lust and refrain from having sex outside of marriage.
For a homosexual person to cease being homosexual would mean that they would be attracted to the opposite sex. That would be nice, but it is not required by the Church. Whether it is possible through therapy or not is a question discussed on another thread. I don’t know the answer to that.
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agangbern
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That’s true because admiration is different from attraction.
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rlg94086
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And attraction is different from lust.
Catechism said:
Being attracted to someone does not mean you are lusting after them.
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agangbern
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Does it necessarily follow that way?
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goofyjim
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Unless you really believe that there are those who don’t find either sex attractive.
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agangbern
Guest
Yes, I think it is true for ordinary attraction. But not for sexual attraction.
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rlg94086
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Do you know of anyone who does not find any human beings attractive? Of course it follows that way. A celibate controls their lust, they don’t become a robot with no attractions.
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rlg94086
Guest
What? I quoted the definition of lust from the Catechism. It applies directly to sexual attraction. Attraction is not a sin. Lust is a “disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure.” Are you saying that you have a disordered desire for sexual pleasure towards every person you find sexually attractive?
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agangbern
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Yes, it is different if the word “sexual” is not used as a modifier of it.
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goofyjim
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Well, I experience same sex attraction and do not spend my time lusting after anyone and have not been in a sexual relationship so I consider myself chaste. Goodbye for now.
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rlg94086
Guest
Sorry. Sexual attraction is different from lust. I am sexually attracted to my wife. That doesn’t mean I lust after her. If I did, I would be sinning when I have sex with her, even though we are married.
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