Why the American Catholic Church have to be patriotic

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RayonGama

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I am from another country. When I came here I was shocked on how much importance there is for patriotism in the catholic church.

Maybe it is just something you never realized, part of life. There is so much emphasis when it’s 4th of July. American Flag outside the church, Flag inside, flag behind or hooked to the altar. Ribbons of red blue, white around the crucifix.

What is it all about?

Please don’t be offended by my post…
 
Many Americans believe that God has blessed America, that He had a hand in the founding of this country.
 
American is historical a Protestant country, and until a couple of generations ago Catholics were looked on with suspicion, as a fifth column or disloyal element.

Around the time of our involvement in the Great War (1917-1919) American Catholics began putting American flags in our parishes to proclaim our loyalty to the United States. They’ve been there ever since.
 
Actually, I’ve never seen red, white & blue ribbons on the crucifixes in my church. 🤷
 
I can see the reasoning behind it.

But, personally, I don’t like it.
 
In all honesty, I think its a little idolatrous. Don’t get me wrong, we should love our country, but at the same time, God is more important, at least to me
 
Unless each Mass is started off with the national anthem and there are flags up front on the altar, then why would it be an issue.

We can be proud of our countries (mostly) and signing Oh Canada or the Star Spangled Banner after Mass has concluded is probably okay.

But if your priest wears a red/white/blue stole or robe, then you’re in trouble.
 
WildCatholic said:
In all honesty, I think its a little idolatrous. Don’t get me wrong, we should love our country, but at the same time, God is more important, at least to me
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Why should we love our country? I’m asking only because I’ve never been able to answer it for myself. On one hand, I think it’s good to be thankful to God for where I 've been placed in the world. But on the other hand, I think that’s more about being thankful for life itself.
 
RayonGama said:
I am from another country. When I came here I was shocked on how much importance there is for patriotism in the catholic church.

Maybe it is just something you never realized, part of life. There is so much emphasis when it’s 4th of July. American Flag outside the church, Flag inside, flag behind or hooked to the altar. Ribbons of red blue, white around the crucifix.

What is it all about?

Please don’t be offended by my post…
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Have never seen the decorations you describe in any Catholic Church that I have attended.
A flag outside the church is a representation of the country we are fortunate to live in.
 
If a flag was hooked onto the alter that sounds wrong to me. But we Americans, including American Catholics if we are what we ought to be, have a very strong love for our country. It is an extension of “honor thy father and mother.”

Patriotism takes different forms in different cultures, so it’s not surprising if the customs of one country create a culture shock for someone from another country. In America, for example, we put a higher emphasis on our flag as the symbol of our homeland than in most countries, where because of differences in history and culture I think flags are often more heavily associated with the national government and all its faults.

There is also the fact that, unlike perhaps every other country in the world, the United States of America was founded on a creed, on a bold and dogmatic statement that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. We have struggled and often failed, and continue to struggle and fail, to live up to this belief. Most heinously, there was slavery in the past and there is abortion now. But I think to most patriotic Americans the ideals that we stand for and the symbols of those ideals, such as the American flag, transcend all those imperfections. America is an ideological nation. It is, perhaps, the ideological nation. Unlike in most countries, the root basis of our national identity is not in an ethnicity or a small, ancient plot of land, but is this ideology of freedom and equality. Thus for us patriotism intertwines the natural love for one’s native soil and native people with the virtuous enthusiasm for a great philosophical and political cause.

I realize that to people from other countries the flag and the name of America probably instead primarily call to mind the foreign policy of recent US presidents and the output of pop culture. If this is the case for you I would ask you to try to understand how to many of us America and her symbols do not represent any of that at all.
 
Jozefo said:
Why should we love our country? I’m asking only because I’ve never been able to answer it for myself. On one hand, I think it’s good to be thankful to God for where I 've been placed in the world. But on the other hand, I think that’s more about being thankful for life itself.
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If we really loved our country, then we’d treat it with respect and dignity and not endanger it by inviting wars or provoking enemies, or creating evil laws that are not in the interest of the common good.

I think North Americans use “love” in place of “appreciate” when referring to their homeland simply as a matter of pride. Proud to be American and win a lot of Olympic Medals, proud to be Canadian and live in a country respected across the globe…etc.

I agree, though, it’s mostly a matter of circumstance. I didn’t choose to be Canadian but I am very grateful to live in such a beautiful and peaceful place (despite deep chilling winter, radical abortion laws and terrible MLB team.) And since I cannot defend a lot of our public policy before God, I’m not too proud of Canada; but I’d rather live here than 99% of other countries.
 
I’ve only seen that sort of thing once, in a picture, and found it distasteful and inappropriate. For one thing there’s the danger of making the faith appear to be limited to one nation. Then there’s the danger of reducing our religion to a merely human identity alongside others. (For the same reason, I dislike “themed” Masses in which we celebrate ourselves–this culture or that, this sports team, etc. We are there to worship God, not celebrate ourselves or some segment of society.)

There is true patriotism, which is a species of the virtue of piety (cf. S.T. IIb, Q. 101), and then there are false patriotisms, among them nationalism and in particular, Americanism, which Leo XIII condemned his 1899 encyclical Testem benevolentiae. Americanism is alive and well today especially among certain Protestants, but perhaps also in our own Church as well.
 
“My country, right or wrong,” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother, drunk or sober.”

― G.K. Chesterton, The Defendant
 
Zachary said:
If we really loved our country, then we’d treat it with respect and dignity and not endanger it by inviting wars or provoking enemies, or creating evil laws that are not in the interest of the common good.

I think North Americans use “love” in place of “appreciate” when referring to their homeland simply as a matter of pride. Proud to be American and win a lot of Olympic Medals, proud to be Canadian and live in a country respected across the globe…etc.

I agree, though, it’s mostly a matter of circumstance. I didn’t choose to be Canadian but I am very grateful to live in such a beautiful and peaceful place (despite deep chilling winter, radical abortion laws and terrible MLB team.) And since I cannot defend a lot of our public policy before God, I’m not too proud of Canada; but I’d rather live here than 99% of other countries.
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Speaking for myself I would say this American’s patriotism is real love rather than pride. Indeed it is mixed with shame about as often as it is mixed with pride. Or, when it comes to my love for the physical land of North America, or really primarily of my region of it, it is more a love for the beauty and wholesomeness of the land without much presence of pride or shame.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
I’ve only seen that sort of thing once, in a picture, and found it distasteful and inappropriate. For one thing there’s the danger of making the faith appear to be limited to one nation. Then there’s the danger of reducing our religion to a merely human identity alongside others. (For the same reason, I dislike “themed” Masses in which we celebrate ourselves–this culture or that, this sports team, etc. We are there to worship God, not celebrate ourselves or some segment of society.)

There is true patriotism, which is a species of the virtue of piety (cf. S.T. IIb, Q. 101), and then there are false patriotisms, among them nationalism and in particular, Americanism, which Leo XIII condemned his 1899 encyclical Testem benevolentiae. Americanism is alive and well today especially among certain Protestants, but perhaps also in our own Church as well.
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I thought the heresy that was (very unfortunately, in my opinion; if an error had arisen in Italy and people had suggested calling it Italianism I wonder whether the Pope would have accepted that) called Americanism was basically the view of Catholicism as only one Christian denomination among many, nothing to do with American patriotism.
 
“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”

We own our nation our loyalty because it helps provide for us. Once it no longer does (where ours is headed) we will no longer owe it our allegiance.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”

We own our nation our loyalty because it helps provide for us. Once it no longer does (where ours is headed) we will no longer owe it our allegiance.
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You mean the rulers of the nation not the nation itself, right?
 
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