Why the American Catholic Church have to be patriotic

[dee_burk]

i havent seen the red white n blue ribbons on a crucifix at our church…yikes

However, one thing to remember is that God has provided Americans with the right to religious freedoms. there are still some countries where Christians remain persecuted and are not allowed such religious liberties.

 

[L_Marshall]

However, one thing to remember is that God has provided Americans with the right to religious freedoms.

For the now…

 

[ProdglArchitect]

You mean the rulers of the nation not the nation itself, right?

We will no longer owe our rulers our allegiance, yes. Sorry for not specifying.

 

[getysbg]

In all honesty, I think its a little idolatrous. Don’t get me wrong, we should love our country, but at the same time, God is more important, at least to me

I don’t see it as anything ( patriotism ) being worshipped. It’s more of a decorative thing.

 

[polytropos]

I have not seen anything like flags hanging from crucifixes. One church I went to ended mass by reciting the Preamble. My main complaint would be that our country, though historically Christian, is founded on principles that are in various ways antithetical to Catholicism (or, at least, can be interpreted in ways that are antithetical to Catholicism).

Patriotism is not bad or sinful. I think that there is a lot of overlap. But also there is a risk to slip into “Americanism,” which is heretical. My family is Catholic, but for the most part care more for right-wing fiscal politics than the Church. (Not that someone cannot be fiscally conservative and Catholic.)

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I have not seen anything like flags hanging from crucifixes. One church I went to ended mass by reciting the Preamble. My main complaint would be that our country, though historically Christian, is founded on principles that are in various ways antithetical to Catholicism (or, at least, can be interpreted in ways that are antithetical to Catholicism).

Patriotism is not bad or sinful. I think that there is a lot of overlap. But also there is a risk to slip into “Americanism,” which is heretical. My family is Catholic, but for the most part care more for right-wing fiscal politics than the Church. (Not that someone cannot be fiscally conservative and Catholic.)

Again, what does “Americanism” have to do with American patriotism?

 

[polytropos]

Again, what does “Americanism” have to do with American patriotism?

Nothing necessarily. One can certainly be an American patriot without being an “Americanist.”

 

[CradleJourney]

My love of country (America) is based on the basic beliefs and values she represents - no matter how much her government and/or citizens of any particular era fail to live up to those values. I love the ideal America - one that may be imperfect in action but seems far superior to anything else I have read about.

When I express my love of country, I am also express my honor and respect to the hundreds of thousands who have sacrificed so much, including often their lives, over the past 200+ years for the ideals she represents including freedom, justice, equality, and personal liberty.

And although I come from a very patriotic area, I have not seen the decorations you describe at church (beyond a flag outside perhaps - which is usually next to the parish school).

 

[tabycat]

Actually, I’ve never seen red, white & blue ribbons on the crucifixes in my church.

Neither have I.

One thing: Catholics have been active in American life from 1775 (ie the Carrollls of Maryland) to now.

 

[Mumbles140]

I think singing God Bless America and other Christian Patriotic hymns at Mass on the 4th is acceptable - I would like to see a Marian hymn in there to honor our Patroness, but on a day where everyone is celebrating America, I think it is important to remember that it is God who gives us the talents to be great, and we must use them justly and fairly.

 

[Mumbles140]

Neither have I.

One thing: Catholics have been active in American life from 1775 (ie the Carrollls of Maryland) to now.

And the Brents in Stafford, VA before that - I grew up going to St. William of York, which was on land given by the Brents. That is why there is a large Crucifix on Route 1 about 2 miles up the road from Rte. 610.

 

[MorEphrem]

I find issue with this as I do with what many Maronites (regarding Lebanon) do at church: it makes things so temporally focused that it strays from the objective of the Church. The liturgy unites the Body where ever they reside and by singing the national anthem at the conclusion of liturgy or waving flags aside the crucifix, I personally feel, is certainly a disordered equation. Plus it really, truly isolates people who have come to worship in the Body of Christ and do not share everyone else’s particular secular allegiance; I can’t describe how much of an outsider I’ve felt when at the Maronite Church they’ve sung the Lebanese national anthem (I’m ethnically Syrian) - it really makes you feel like the sore thumb.

Then again I use to take issue with the fact that the pledge of allegiance and prayer would be said side by side with each other every morning in my grammar school and prep school, but I digress before I’m seen as an America-hater.

 

[Jozefo]

“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”

We own our nation our loyalty because it helps provide for us. Once it no longer does (where ours is headed) we will no longer owe it our allegiance.

The people of God is our nation, and our country is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[fallow_spirit]

I’m not sure why but personally I believe that churches can go too far with the Patriotism on July 4th. This is coming from a person who really isn’t overly Patriotic (which is weird because I used to be very), but I go to one of those Evangelical Bible churches that just go way overboard the Sunday before the 4th; giant American flags everywhere, American flag pins given out to every person, choir and orchestra wearing red, white and blue, every song one of those patriotic songs including like those military dillies whatever they’re called (sorry mind is blank right now) and people of different branches standing during the singing, and finally the pastor giving a sermon devoted to how great and wonderful America is. That I believe is an example of going too far, and if it happened in a Catholic Church then I would probably be very uncomfortable. Too me, doing something that is way too hyper-nationalistic and borders on idolatry, if a church wants to put a flag up here and there (but not those giant ones) and maybe have some 4th of July party or picnic or whatever then that would be fine. But I don’t think during the church is the best place to do those things, we’re supposed to be praising God not a secular country.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

I thought … Americanism was basically the view of Catholicism as only one Christian denomination among many, nothing to do with American patriotism.

I think the term is used in different ways, but in Testem Ben. it has more to do with molding the Church in the image of the state. It implies a sort of worship of the “ideal of America” rather than the actual country–and a distorted ideal at that.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I think the term is used in different ways, but in Testem Ben. it has more to do with molding the Church in the image of the state. It implies a sort of worship of the “ideal of America” rather than the actual country–and a distorted ideal at that.

And yet the Catholic Church has a habit of purifying and elevating authentic secular ideals. I’ll have to actually read the document, but I know that the American bishops, including notable ones like Cardinal Gibbons, responded saying Rome had badly misunderstood the American Church and that it did not hold the errors it was accused of. My understanding is that the whole idea of “Americanism” was based in a European misunderstanding of the American experiment in which they could not conceive of freedom of religion without religious indifferentism and a French-style separation of Church and State.

 

[Lawrence178]

I think the flags should go away, sort of degrades the idea of universality, the “catholicism,” of Catholicism. I think you can be a “bad american” and a good Catholic.

But I’m not at all opposed to singing a hymn asking God to bless our nation.

The people of God is our nation, and our country is the kingdom of heaven.

QFT

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I think the flags should go away, sort of degrades the idea of universality, the “catholicism,” of Catholicism. I think you can be a “bad american” and a good Catholic.

But I’m not at all opposed to singing a hymn asking God to bless our nation.

QFT

Can you be a “bad son” to your parents and be a good Catholic?

 

[april32010]

eat the cookie, eat the cookie, eat the imaginary cookie.

off topic, if i may ask the meaning of your sig line

 

[april32010]

And yet the Catholic Church has a habit of purifying and elevating authentic secular ideals. I’ll have to actually read the document, but I know that the American bishops, including notable ones like Cardinal Gibbons, responded saying Rome had badly misunderstood the American Church and that it did not hold the errors it was accused of. My understanding is that the whole idea of “Americanism” was based in a European misunderstanding of the American experiment in which they could not conceive of freedom of religion without religious indifferentism and a French-style separation of Church and State.

papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13teste.htm and did Leo XIII agree that he misunderstood ?