Why the bible is most assuredly not a Catholic book,

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Your Bible contains additiions to it and changes made by the council of Trent where they basically said that the word of God was not enough and they were going to add their own traditions and dogmas.
In the Bible of the God of Issaic, Abraham and Jacob, God says not to add to my word or subtract from it…Deut. 4.
No books were added to the Old Testament Canon at the Council of Trent. If that were true, then the Orthodox Old Testament would be the same as the Protestant Old Testament, wouldn’t it? But it isn’t. Orthodox Christians include every book which Catholics include in the Old Testament. Why would the Orthodox Christians follow the Council of Trent? It’s a ludicrous claim. Trent reaffirmed the same Scriptural canon that prior councils had already determined centuries before. No change was made.

It was the Reformers who subtracted from God’s word.
 
I have personally witnessed this. Open you own eyes
By your reasoning, your own church is also not valid. What you allege to have seen Catholics do is not church teaching. and may have constituted sin. If individual members have violated church teaching, does that invalidate the rules and teachings they violated? What logic is this? People commit murder, so does that invalidate laws condemning homicide? Explain the difference, please.

I sincerely doubt that you understood what you saw. Unless you asked them what they were doing, how can you possibly know? One possible answer is that you are biased against the church and were searching for evidence against her. This makes it easier to justify remaining separate from her. What if you were wrong?

If you did not ask them, don’t you think the truth should be sought out? We find it much easier to gossip about things that we are unsure of than to investigate and learn the truth. That is human nature. I accuse you of neither, raising the point only for the sake of your soul.

Fact is, the depth of faith and devotion in the mother church puts others to shame - so much so that veneration may just appear as worship to those unaccustomed to such richness of faith. No, I am not joking here.

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
**Quote:
The root of the fracture has always abided in Rome. **

you might have said something important here.

meaning there is One Church which all the others came out of it. so you all came out of her. time to repent and come back to your roots.

👍
 
The Hebrew is attested of Sirach, for instance, because 1) Sirach specifically says he translated it from Hebrew 2) The Syriac is translated from the Hebrews. 3) the qumran fragments match, with minor variation, the text from the Cairo Genizah copied by Jews in the 11-12th century. 4) the rabbis quote and comment on it in the Talmud.

Btw, the Dead Sea Scrolls are not the only BC fragments of the OT that agree with the Hebrew vorlage of the LXX.
Can you tell I’m too lazy to look this stuff up for myself? Thanks!
:tiphat:
 
On the one hand:
Yehoshua bar Yosef is so dangerously popular that the Romans see fit to arrest him and crucify him as the “KIng of the Jews” yet he is seemingly so unpopular the he is universally condemned by the entire local population?
Ever seen Julius Caesar, Anthony’s speach at the cremationn? At first the mob won’t let him speak, and by the end they can’t contain themselves from avenging Caesar? There’s a reason why you shouldn’t let king Mob rule.
Look at California: they elect Ronald Reagan and Jerry Brown.

Btw, the Fathers interpret it as the soul ruled by the passions, how the crowds said “Hail King,” and then “Crucify Him!” Also, the “Messianic Secret,” why Christ asks “who you say I am?” rather than proclaiming Himself.
( Incidentally, in the part of the story concerning the condemnation by the Sanhedrin the person who wrote the story apparently didn’t know that under Jewish law you cannot condemn someone unless someone is willing to speak in his defense.)
He’s not condemned until He says “I AM.” In fact He keeps silent, a fact the Gospels dwell on and the Fathers.
I’ve heard the defense “the trial was against Jewish Law!” In the Talmud, there’s a report that for forty days before a herald stated He was going to be stoned, and that if any had any exculpatory evidence in His defense. When none was forthcoming, He was hung on Erev Pesach. (Sanh. 43a) And of course, the problem would be with some claim that Sepharad posted regarding the signs of the last 40 years of the Temple, that the Sanhedrin stopped capital cases. Not to mention the idea that miscarriges of justice never happen in courst of law:rolleyes: and legislative bodies opperate above reproach:rolleyes: . I worked in Congress a year, and been in divorce court 8; trust me, things don’t go according to theory.
And on the other hand:
A human being, a Jew no less. claiming that he is God incarnate come down to earth and that you should abandon Torah? What could be more antithetical to Judaism? How could any Jew who loves God and his religion have reacted in any other way?
I recall that in the Talmud, there is something to the effect if someone says such a thing (to my knowledge, that only leaves Jesus) say “He is the Mighty One of Sinai,” or some such thing.

That a Hebrew say such a thing, in the retrospect of the Talmud might seem odd, but then again, to look at it that way is to scew the evidence. Looking at other Hebrew litterature of the time (which includes the NT, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc) shows a different story. For instance the “Wisdom of Solomon,” which although evidently written in Greek by a Alexadrian Jew, was translated into Hebrew, as Nahmanides mentions in his preface to the Torah. It contains an early Haggadah (the earliest I believe to survive), and their is other influences on the Jewish Liturgy (as so with Sirach).
jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=211&letter=W&search=Wisdom

It’s second chapter is what we are concerned with:
1: For the ungodly said, reasoning with themselves, but not aright, Our life is short and tedious, and in the death of a man there is no remedy: neither was there any man known to have returned from the grave.
2: For we are born at all adventure: and we shall be hereafter as though we had never been: for the breath in our nostrils is as smoke, and a little spark in the moving of our heart:
3: Which being extinguished, our body shall be turned into ashes, and our spirit shall vanish as the soft air,
4: And our name shall be forgotten in time, and no man shall have our works in remembrance, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, that is driven away with the beams of the sun, and overcome with the heat thereof.
5: For our time is a very shadow that passeth away; and after our end there is no returning: for it is fast sealed, so that no man cometh again.
6: Come on therefore, let us enjoy the good things that are present: and let us speedily use the creatures like as in youth.
7: Let us fill ourselves with costly wine and ointments: and let no flower of the spring pass by us:
8: Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds, before they be withered:
9: Let none of us go without his part of our voluptuousness: let us leave tokens of our joyfulness in every place: for this is our portion, and our lot is this.
10: Let us oppress the poor righteous man, let us not spare the widow, nor reverence the ancient gray hairs of the aged.
11: Let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble [note: Greek *achrestos, a play on the title Christos] is found to be nothing worth.
12: Therefore let us lie in wait for the righteous; because he is not for our turn, and he is clean contrary to our doings: he upbraideth us with our offending the law, and objecteth to our infamy the transgressings of our education.
13: **He professeth to have the knowledge of God: and he calleth himself the child of the Lord. **[note: child Greek *pais. The same word appears in Isaiah 52:13, i.e. the Suffering Servant. The Greek word means both. cf. Genesis 15:2]
14: He was made to reprove our thoughts.
15: He is grievous unto us even to behold: for his life is not like other men’s, his ways are of another fashion.
16: We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father.
17: Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him.
18: For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies.
19: Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness, and prove his patience.
20: Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected.
21: Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them.
22: As for the mysteries of God, they knew them not: neither hoped they for the wages of righteousness, nor discerned a reward for blameless souls.
23: **For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity. **24: Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it.

That the early Christians were using this BC text against the rabbis is shown by the 2nd century AD “Epistile of Barnabas.” WS 9:17 is also interpreted as a reference to the Most Holy Trinity (and the source of St. Paul calling the Wisdom of God, Wisdom being Who St. John called the Word of God. So much for no influence of the DC on the NT).
 
And why have so many Christians felt over the centuries that not only should the Jews be punished for not abandoning God’s covenant with them but that He requires their help to do so?
Ignoring St. Paul (Romans 11):

1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew…5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, a pitfall and a retribution for them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs for ever.” 11 So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! **But through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. **12 **Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! **13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 **For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? **16 If the dough offered as first fruits is holy, so is the whole lump; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree, **18 do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 You will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 **Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree. 25 Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, 26 and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; 27 “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” 28 As regards the gospel they are enemies of God, for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable. 30 Just as you were once disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” 35 “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” 36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory for ever. Amen
 
No books were added to the Old Testament Canon at the Council of Trent. If that were true, then the Orthodox Old Testament would be the same as the Protestant Old Testament, wouldn’t it? But it isn’t. Orthodox Christians include every book which Catholics include in the Old Testament. Why would the Orthodox Christians follow the Council of Trent? It’s a ludicrous claim. Trent reaffirmed the same Scriptural canon that prior councils had already determined centuries before. No change was made.

It was the Reformers who subtracted from God’s word.
Not to mention the Fathers cite the DC frequently, and even the rabbis cite some.
 
Actually it is by God’s grace that we are brought by darkness into light. We receive His grace through the sacraments which are administered by the Church. Therefore, the Church is intimately involved in our relationship with God.
No actually it is the word of God.

1 Peter1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises **of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; **

We are called by God out of darkness by His word.
We are the called out ones.
Ekklessia means called out ones. Not what you have distorted and called church!
 
No actually it is the word of God.

1 Peter1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises **of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; **

We are called by God out of darkness by His word.
We are the called out ones.
Ekklessia means called out ones. Not what you have distorted and called church!
How does your quote relate to baptism then? Are you stating you receive no grace from Baptism?
 
Did you not hear that Jesus was a Jew?
And the Bible is our instruction from the Father of Jesus, GOD.

Exactly

Your Bible contains additiions to it and changes made by the council of Trent where they basically said that the word of God was not enough and they were going to add their own traditions and dogmas.
In the Bible of the God of Issaic, Abraham and Jacob, God says not to add to my word or subtract from it…Deut. 4.

So why would you choose to follow a man made church that adds to the word of God, rather than God. himself? I know it is too simple and easy…God wants it that way. He does not try to purposly trip people up. God seeks after us and wants our friendship.

If you have Jesus Christ in your life you don’t need anything else. You do good works but you do not do them to earn your way into heaven. God is not keeping score.
Christ Alone is sufficent for salvation. “Another gospel” teaches that He is not suffiecent but it is the Church which is athe saving agent.
How could I follow something so foolish to believe man is greater than God?
 
How does your quote relate to baptism then? Are you stating you receive no grace from Baptism?
Grace is given at baptism.

We are all born in darkness. We are called out of darkness by the word of God in His good news. We recieve the word it is engrafted in our soul and that word translates us from darkness to light. It is then that we are to be baptized not before.
 
Grace is given at baptism.

We are all born in darkness. We are called out of darkness by the word of God in His good news. We recieve the word it is engrafted in our soul and that word translates us from darkness to light. It is then that we are to be baptized not before.
Some would say that you could not understand the word of the Lord without first receiving grace.

Your previous post stated that you do not receive grace through the sacraments. Now you state that you do receive them; however, you first have to hear the word of the Lord. The previous post that you refuted was not incorrect it is just your choice of which sacraments you believe in. Which sacraments do you believe in?
 
Christ Alone is sufficent for salvation. “Another gospel” teaches that He is not suffiecent but it is the Church which is athe saving agent.
How could I follow something so foolish to believe man is greater than God?
I believe the Catholic Church because I believe a man IS God and I listen to His Word and His Church that He left on His Earth.

michel
 
I have not rejected Christ. I reject false doctrine and teachings.
So, you believe your teachings, changed by man in a Church started by man, over 1500 years after Pentecost, are the Truth, and reject the original teachings that had been taught and understood by all Christians, written down in the Bible by the people who understood them, and existed up until said man said he believed it meant something else?
 
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