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Chris_Jacobsen
Guest
There are two sides to this issue.
On one side is adultery, contraception, abortion, divorce, fornication, heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality, beastiality, etc. This side is called lust.
On the other side is celebacy and Christian marriage. This side is called chastity.
All the fuss about homosexuality is an attempt to close the barn door after most of the cows have already gotten loose. Round up all of the cows that have gotten out of the barn, and homosexuality won’t be a problem, either.
Unfortunately, society is not willing to round up the cows or even close the barn door.
On one side is adultery, contraception, abortion, divorce, fornication, heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality, beastiality, etc. This side is called lust.
On the other side is celebacy and Christian marriage. This side is called chastity.
All the fuss about homosexuality is an attempt to close the barn door after most of the cows have already gotten loose. Round up all of the cows that have gotten out of the barn, and homosexuality won’t be a problem, either.
Unfortunately, society is not willing to round up the cows or even close the barn door.
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GKB_Protasius
Guest
I think in C.S. Lewis’s letters he sometimes uses the abbreviation “Xian” and does so respectfully. However, it sounds like the term has been taken over by many who don’t respect Christianity.
Peace in Christ,
Frank
Peace in Christ,
Frank
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
Werner:
These people are using a definition of “natural” which comes from Aristotle. Very simply, everything on this planet has an essential nature or a “Ousia” from which spring the operating requirements of that creature. Think of it as “Firmware” Our "firmware is set up so that any behavior that isn’t in the context of a committed relationship between a man and a woman (marriage) which is open to procreation.
Many members of this forum can tell you how that works. I can tell you from personal experience about the unhappiness of doing it the other way.
Now, from reading your posts, I must conclude that you’ve either left the Church, or that you were never a Catholic at all, and that you’re trying to justify that choice. This is a Catholic Forum, and I’m going to have to remind you that we submit ourselves to the Teaching Authority of the Church as expressed in the Sacrd Scripture and the Traditions of the Church.
My last class on Aristotle as some 26 years ago, and I don’t care to argue “Human Nature” with someone who understands less about that subject than I do.
What I’d really ask you is this: Can you accept that God brought the Jews through the middle of the sea “dryshod” in the process of delivering them out of slavery from the land of Egypt and the hand of Pharaoh? Can you accept that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead after Jesus died for your sins as well as mine?
If you can accept these things, the rest of what everyone is saying here is actually quite easy and quite simple.
Christ Jesus didn’t come into the world to leave sinners in their sins. He came into the world to save us from our sins!
Please, think on these things, anfd the rest will be easier than you think.
Shalom, MIchael
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Werner
Guest
Traditional Ang:
thanks for your post which differs nicely from many others that are of the “how dare you to have a different opinion” sort.
I can tell you i’ve been a Catholic all my livetime, and even a very devout Catholic for a long time.
On the other side i am a gay man.
I have been struggling, praying and fighting for years until i came to a point where i came to the conclusion that this is the way how God in his uncomprehensibility decided to create me.
As i said, this was no easy decision (to accept that) but i finally came up with and i am 100% convinced that “HE SAW IT WAS GOOD”.
I know that you will think i’m a sinner, will go to hell etc, but i don’t fear to meet Him on judgement day, at least not for that topic.
Now what am i looking for here? I thought this to be a place to exchage ideas with fellow Catholics, but it hurts me and upsets me to see the zeal of some people, who NEVER EVER have wasted one single thought about the topic of homosexuality but are faster in judging about others than all the pharisees together.
Why can’t these people just leave homosexuals alone? What is the big problem, when two people who truely love each others, sign a contract at the town hall?
Yes, the church calls it a big sin, but there are other big sins out there we see each and every day. People starving, people who have no place to sleep and many more.
If us Christians would care about all those sins with the same zeal the world would be a better place.
Yes, i am still a Catholic, and i believe everything you wrote in your post about God and Jesus Christ.
But there is one topic the church is wrong about, it took me a whole decade of struggling and fighting to see that. Now if you have searched your consience about that topic, all the pro’s and con’s at least one tenth of that time we can discuss that again.
And those coming up with “natural law” should go to the trouble of looking at it from the perspective of an homosexual (if they are able to do so, what i doubt), and they will find out what a nonsense it is to call it “against natural law”.
I don’t think i will post again here in the forum, i don’t want to “stir the pot” as one member said. If just a few here would think a little bit about themselves and the other side before throwing stones, i would be happy.
bless you,
Werner
Michael,
thanks for your post which differs nicely from many others that are of the “how dare you to have a different opinion” sort.
I can tell you i’ve been a Catholic all my livetime, and even a very devout Catholic for a long time.
On the other side i am a gay man.
I have been struggling, praying and fighting for years until i came to a point where i came to the conclusion that this is the way how God in his uncomprehensibility decided to create me.
As i said, this was no easy decision (to accept that) but i finally came up with and i am 100% convinced that “HE SAW IT WAS GOOD”.
I know that you will think i’m a sinner, will go to hell etc, but i don’t fear to meet Him on judgement day, at least not for that topic.
Now what am i looking for here? I thought this to be a place to exchage ideas with fellow Catholics, but it hurts me and upsets me to see the zeal of some people, who NEVER EVER have wasted one single thought about the topic of homosexuality but are faster in judging about others than all the pharisees together.
Why can’t these people just leave homosexuals alone? What is the big problem, when two people who truely love each others, sign a contract at the town hall?
Yes, the church calls it a big sin, but there are other big sins out there we see each and every day. People starving, people who have no place to sleep and many more.
If us Christians would care about all those sins with the same zeal the world would be a better place.
Yes, i am still a Catholic, and i believe everything you wrote in your post about God and Jesus Christ.
But there is one topic the church is wrong about, it took me a whole decade of struggling and fighting to see that. Now if you have searched your consience about that topic, all the pro’s and con’s at least one tenth of that time we can discuss that again.
And those coming up with “natural law” should go to the trouble of looking at it from the perspective of an homosexual (if they are able to do so, what i doubt), and they will find out what a nonsense it is to call it “against natural law”.
I don’t think i will post again here in the forum, i don’t want to “stir the pot” as one member said. If just a few here would think a little bit about themselves and the other side before throwing stones, i would be happy.
bless you,
Werner
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luke2219
Guest
Werner, I apologize for all my Catholic brothers and sisters who have responded in that manner. I’ve stayed quite in this thread waiting for a reasonable post that I could respond to.
That goes for me as well. I’ve been devout (or at least trying to be) for about 3 years now.
Although, I would not label myself as gay, I am also a man who is sexually attracted to other men. I have been since I started having sexual thoughts and can remember a tendency toward it even years before puberty.
I’ve also been struggling , praying and fighting for years. I started out ignoring it and hoping it would go away. Then I moved to thinking it was a stage that I would grow out of. Then I thought, if I could improve my self-esteem, I would change. Then I came to the same conclusion that you did. God must have made me this way; it feels so natural that it can’t be wrong. But even since then I moved on from that. I now accept the Church’s teachings and I have a peace that I never had before or even hoped to have. I’ll try to give you a few short reasons why. My purpose is only to offer you my perspective and not to beat you down in any way. I understand your perspective, at least as you’ve described it, because I used to have that perspective and it is quite reasonable. A lot of good, well-meaning, Christians start foaming at the mouth anytime someone starts talking like you have, and that just isn’t fair. I hope I’m not one of them. I hear you and I hope you will hear me.
In fact, after He made man, he “saw that it was VERY good.” Certainly God made us and we are good by that virtue. But that was in the beginning. Soon after, sin entered the world and mankind was fallen, wounded, broken. Christ came and redeemed mankind, but our fallen human nature remains. That is why some wrong things feel ‘natural’. For me, I thought of revenge. It feels natural and good, but we know that it is wrong. Our fallen nature causes things that hurt us (sin) to feel natural. The Church calls this concupiscence.
When I made the decision you have, it wasn’t easy for me either. I was angry that I’d have to settle for a second-rate life as I saw it. But I thought it was my lot so I accepted it for a while. Then I made an even harder decision. After I came to realize what the Church’s teaching on human sexuality were and WHY, I decided that I wanted a life of chastity and purity. I decided that I no longer wanted to identify my personhood by my sexuality. I decided to pursue Christ above all else and strive to learn and live by His teachings. It sounds real good, at least it did to me, but it’s hard. First, I have to make that decision every day, sometimes every hour. Second, there is a lot of things I’m attached to that I’d have to leave behind. There is also a lot of redemptive pain involved in learning to know and love myself so that I may fully know and love God. Chastity is a great gift. Many times, even now, I follow my old ways and I’m impure. Those times do not bring me happiness or fulfillment. The times I choose chastity bring me happiness and fulfillment.
A sinner? Yeah you are and so am I. So is everyone else. People like us are no more fundamentally flawed than the rest. “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory” right? Going to hell? God knows, I don’t. We can’t judge that and God tells us not to. Only God knows your heart and can make that judgment. But, I do know this. Homosexual ACTS are gravely wrong. If committed with full knowledge and consent of the will and not repented for before death, then can lead us to hell. I have no way of knowing if you have full knowledge or consent; that is for you to work out with God. Anyone who condemns you to hell is condemning themselves.
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luke2219
Guest
I hope what I’m writing here is what you are looking for. I’m a fellow Catholic and I’m exchanging my ideas. I have much zeal on this topic, but I’ve spent most of my life thinking about this topic.
There is nothing wrong with love. There is nothing wrong with two men loving each other. We are all called to love one another. But genital expression of that love is a different topic. God made us the way He made us and He made sexual intercourse to be a type (sign/symbol) of the life-giving love expressed in the Holy Trinity. God literally loved us into existence and He shares that creative power with us. God made intercourse as a gift to be shared between spouses in marriage. He made marriage to be between a man and women. It just doesn’t work any other way. That’s the way He made it. So what about the unbelievers? Why can’t two unbelieving men get married civilly? They aren’t Christian, they don’t know? Why do Christians get so bent out of shape? Because we know that genital homosexual acts are sinful and sin causes death (spiritual if not physical). We don’t want to stand by while people are ruining their lives. We know that marriage is between a man and a women only and that if two men try to do it, it will lead to disaster for them.
I’m sure you see that just because something else may be a greater sin, that doesn’t make homosexual acts less of a sin than they are. And this brings up another point. Having homosexual feelings IS NOT a sin. Many Christians and even Catholics fall into this error thinking someone is in grave sin just because of their homosexuality. This is NOT what the Church teaches. The Church teaches that we all are wounded and broken in some ways and that fallen nature isn’t sin. It’s acts that follow from that fallen nature that are sinful. Staving or having no place to sleep are not sins and neither is being homosexual, but staving someone, causing someone to be homeless and homosexual acts are all sins. The homosexual condition is part of our fallen nature. But that is why Christ came and that is what redemption is. We are redeemed and are no longer slaves to our fallen nature. We can now, with His grace and our cooperation, be truly free and live as He intended. This is the call for homosexuals like us and for everyone else. To go beyond our fallen nature, reach for Christ, and try to live a life of chastity and purity.
As I’ve said, I have searched my conscience and I hope that we can discuss it. I do want to point out another thing though. That can’t be the only thing you think the Church is wrong about. It also means that you don’t believe in other teachings like the authority of the Church and the Pope in matters such as these.
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luke2219
Guest
I have and still do look at it from the perspective of a homosexual and I do not think it is nonsense. It is against natural law, the law that is “written in the hearts of men.” I think when we say, “It is against human nature”, we should say, “It’s against original human nature.” That is, human nature before sin entered the world, human nature as God made it in the beginning. Because you are right, homosexual acts and many other sins are "human nature’, or better put: “fallen human nature”.
Don’t worry about stirring the pot. If people don’t like it, they can read other threads. As long as we respect each other, listen, and avoid personal attacks and name-calling, we should be fine. I’ve only been skimming the posts up until this one, but in your earlier posts you did come off as hostile. I thought your last post was quite reasonable though and that is why I’m responding. I hope we can continue this conversation, even by PM if you would prefer it that way.
Peace and all good things.
L
Lisa_N
Guest
Luke2219 your posts are really worthwhile reading. I hope werner and other misguided souls read and consider them.
werner, like many homosexuals tries to justify his behavior with “God made me this way” and “it is good.” Well the same logic could be used to justify “God made me to molest little children” or “God made me to steal my neighbor’s stereo” or “God made me to be proud and haughty” or “God made me an alcoholic.” We all have our sins and I think most of us here are aware of our shortcomings. This thread happens to deal with homosexuality. There could just as easily be a thread that deals with other sins and those of us who struggle each day with our own failures would hardly be justified in trying to excuse ourselves by blaming God.
For some reason, as you put it, homosexuals wish to be defined by their sexual feelings and urges rather than as a whole person with many facets. This then elevates their behavior to something other than the self destructive and non-life affirming elements that result. I don’t buy this argument and I think in the end most people will realize that the homosexuals’ arguments and self justification are no more supportable than other excuses for self destructive behavior.
Lisa N
werner, like many homosexuals tries to justify his behavior with “God made me this way” and “it is good.” Well the same logic could be used to justify “God made me to molest little children” or “God made me to steal my neighbor’s stereo” or “God made me to be proud and haughty” or “God made me an alcoholic.” We all have our sins and I think most of us here are aware of our shortcomings. This thread happens to deal with homosexuality. There could just as easily be a thread that deals with other sins and those of us who struggle each day with our own failures would hardly be justified in trying to excuse ourselves by blaming God.
For some reason, as you put it, homosexuals wish to be defined by their sexual feelings and urges rather than as a whole person with many facets. This then elevates their behavior to something other than the self destructive and non-life affirming elements that result. I don’t buy this argument and I think in the end most people will realize that the homosexuals’ arguments and self justification are no more supportable than other excuses for self destructive behavior.
Lisa N
F
fix
Guest
Lisa N:
It is unfortunate that many times when one condemns the homosexual agenda and its supporters one is labeled as intolerant or hating the sin and the sinner.
Yes, Luke as written some good posts.
It is unfortunate that many times when one condemns the homosexual agenda and its supporters one is labeled as intolerant or hating the sin and the sinner.
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GoodKnight1443
Guest
Chris Jacobsen:
Cows? Barn door? When did Ross Perot get here? Just kidding- I couldn’t resist we needed a little levity here.
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Werner
Guest
Thank you very much Luke for your post.
Even though my conclusion is a different one than yours i loved reading it.
I’m not made for chastity, and i live together with my partner since 17 years now. We literally had all those good times and bad times will be together until death may part us.
Just two things i’d like to clarify:
You say “I’m sure you see that just because something else may be a greater sin, that doesn’t make homosexual acts less of a sin than they are.”
That wasn’t my point. I don’t know if practised HS is a sin, but i know that for most people it is, and i don’t want to qualify it, everybody has to ask his own conscience about it.
What annoys me though is that many people have such a big zeal in condemning especially this sin. They get upset when they see two men kissing each others but don’t see the homeless man standing next to them. That was my point.
The second thing is:
You say “That can’t be the only thing you think the Church is wrong about.”
You are right, there are other things i don’t like, but none of these is as essential and radical as this one. Let me give you some examples:
A priest, a nun or a monk does it voluntarily, and the Lord himself said that only some are capable to do so. I have no decission according to the church.
And most of those who are fast with condemning homosexuals have never even thought about what that means.
So to come back to you initial question, yes this is the only topic i really think the church commits a grave error.
But i don’t expect to find many believers who share that thought…
OK, enough for now, i’d like to share more thoughts with you and to hear more of yours.
best regards,
Werner
Even though my conclusion is a different one than yours i loved reading it.
I’m not made for chastity, and i live together with my partner since 17 years now. We literally had all those good times and bad times will be together until death may part us.
Just two things i’d like to clarify:
You say “I’m sure you see that just because something else may be a greater sin, that doesn’t make homosexual acts less of a sin than they are.”
That wasn’t my point. I don’t know if practised HS is a sin, but i know that for most people it is, and i don’t want to qualify it, everybody has to ask his own conscience about it.
What annoys me though is that many people have such a big zeal in condemning especially this sin. They get upset when they see two men kissing each others but don’t see the homeless man standing next to them. That was my point.
The second thing is:
You say “That can’t be the only thing you think the Church is wrong about.”
You are right, there are other things i don’t like, but none of these is as essential and radical as this one. Let me give you some examples:
- i don’t really understand the reason why women cannot be priests, but the Pope decided they can’t, so be it.
- i don’t understand why using a condom is a sin because it “hinders new life” while tricking nature by having sex only when a pregnancy is not possible is ok, but so be it.
A priest, a nun or a monk does it voluntarily, and the Lord himself said that only some are capable to do so. I have no decission according to the church.
And most of those who are fast with condemning homosexuals have never even thought about what that means.
So to come back to you initial question, yes this is the only topic i really think the church commits a grave error.
But i don’t expect to find many believers who share that thought…
OK, enough for now, i’d like to share more thoughts with you and to hear more of yours.
best regards,
Werner
M
mommy
Guest
Luke2219 Excellent Posts. Your points are very well spoken. 
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fix
Guest
Werner, your post is an example of moral relativism.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Werner, with respect, you’re attempting to equate apples and oranges. To say that “people are so condemning of homosexuality that they ignore the homeless person next to them” is an example. It attempts to paint the “condemners” as self-righteous who are actually somehow more sinners than the ones practicing homosexuality.
Now, in so far as you might say of me, a heterosexual woman, that I don’t understand or know what you face as a homosexual man, it is true that I don’t suffer the urge of man for man. But I am, and have been, celibate for the last 16 years, and I am still under 50. Even if my annulment goes through, that wouldn’t then make it any more “right” for me to engage in sexual actions of any type outside a valid sacramental marriage. I might have argued, as you do, that my overwhelming need or feeling for another person, despite its wrongs in the eyes of the Church and/or society, was more important for me, that God made me for sexuality, that I shouldn’t have to deny my love/ needs/ feelings because of some “legalism”. After all, who would I be hurting anyway?
I think you know the answer, and my decision to remain chaste and celibate was not something easy. The easy road is, so often, the wrong one, the smooth, broad way filled with “good intentions” and espousing so many “good” things. . .love, “tolerance”, etc.
I will pray for you and for your partner. As a Catholic, you know the wrong you are living and have for the past 17 years.
C.S. Lewis once spoke of the problem with those who say, “Just let me have this one (wrong) thing which I want, and the price I pay will be worth it”. They seem to think that the “experience” will somehow be worthwhile even if they go to hell for it. They fail to realize that, by doing the wrong, they will turn even that “good” into evil and that it will be their biggest curse throughout eternity. We’ve all seen, or experienced, times where we “love” someone and then either “fall out of love” or otherwise “move on”, and that same person who once was the light of our eyes and the joy of our existence becomes, not even just “not cared about” but actually hateful to our minds and hearts. That’s what we’ll get when we elevate any one or any thing as our “god” instead of worshipping the one true God. I have to say it, you’ve made your homosexuality/ your partner into your “god” or “idol” in that you’re more concerned about it/ him than you are about God Himself, and that instead of attempting to model your life and self on God, you’re attempting to either fit God into your life or ignore or change Him to suit your own needs/ ideas. Please, please consider going to a good solid Catholic priest/ spiritual director and looking at your life without bias for your desires and only according to what you know (from the Catechism, Scripture and Sacred Tradition and teaching) is real Truth. Sadly, trying to get “validation” from yourself or others to live a lie is not “love, acceptance or tolerance” but moral relativism and false doctrine which is itself injurious to your immortal soul. Remember, we are creatures, and our overwhelming first love must be for our Creator alone. Raising any one or anything equal to or higher than He is denial, rejection, and will ultimately be despair and death. May He protect and defend you. His love was so great that He sent His Son to save you. Please, accept that salvation. Return that love. Follow Him, not some “feeling” or “ideology”. God bless you and yours.
Now, in so far as you might say of me, a heterosexual woman, that I don’t understand or know what you face as a homosexual man, it is true that I don’t suffer the urge of man for man. But I am, and have been, celibate for the last 16 years, and I am still under 50. Even if my annulment goes through, that wouldn’t then make it any more “right” for me to engage in sexual actions of any type outside a valid sacramental marriage. I might have argued, as you do, that my overwhelming need or feeling for another person, despite its wrongs in the eyes of the Church and/or society, was more important for me, that God made me for sexuality, that I shouldn’t have to deny my love/ needs/ feelings because of some “legalism”. After all, who would I be hurting anyway?
I think you know the answer, and my decision to remain chaste and celibate was not something easy. The easy road is, so often, the wrong one, the smooth, broad way filled with “good intentions” and espousing so many “good” things. . .love, “tolerance”, etc.
I will pray for you and for your partner. As a Catholic, you know the wrong you are living and have for the past 17 years.
C.S. Lewis once spoke of the problem with those who say, “Just let me have this one (wrong) thing which I want, and the price I pay will be worth it”. They seem to think that the “experience” will somehow be worthwhile even if they go to hell for it. They fail to realize that, by doing the wrong, they will turn even that “good” into evil and that it will be their biggest curse throughout eternity. We’ve all seen, or experienced, times where we “love” someone and then either “fall out of love” or otherwise “move on”, and that same person who once was the light of our eyes and the joy of our existence becomes, not even just “not cared about” but actually hateful to our minds and hearts. That’s what we’ll get when we elevate any one or any thing as our “god” instead of worshipping the one true God. I have to say it, you’ve made your homosexuality/ your partner into your “god” or “idol” in that you’re more concerned about it/ him than you are about God Himself, and that instead of attempting to model your life and self on God, you’re attempting to either fit God into your life or ignore or change Him to suit your own needs/ ideas. Please, please consider going to a good solid Catholic priest/ spiritual director and looking at your life without bias for your desires and only according to what you know (from the Catechism, Scripture and Sacred Tradition and teaching) is real Truth. Sadly, trying to get “validation” from yourself or others to live a lie is not “love, acceptance or tolerance” but moral relativism and false doctrine which is itself injurious to your immortal soul. Remember, we are creatures, and our overwhelming first love must be for our Creator alone. Raising any one or anything equal to or higher than He is denial, rejection, and will ultimately be despair and death. May He protect and defend you. His love was so great that He sent His Son to save you. Please, accept that salvation. Return that love. Follow Him, not some “feeling” or “ideology”. God bless you and yours.
M
mercygate
Guest
Tantum ergo:
Defining ourselves entirely along the lines of whom we are attracted to sexually is a desperate poverty.
Courage Apostolate, anybody?
Indeed, Tantum. Many face this issue – and despite protests to the contrary, I do not believe that homosexuals have stronger sexual “needs” than the rest of us. Yet many have chosen – whether as homosexuals or heterosexuals – to walk the narrow, and often scalding, way of chastity. Moreover, you would be surprised how many people, even in marriage, encounter obstacles to legitimate sexual expression and must live in continence.
Defining ourselves entirely along the lines of whom we are attracted to sexually is a desperate poverty.
Courage Apostolate, anybody?
B
Brad
Guest
We are all made for chastity whether in marriage or not in marriage. Is it easy? No. But that doesn’t mean we were not made for it.
A sin is a sin no matter who thinks it is or is not. Our conscience can be wrong if it is not properly formed. True understanding of this is liberation. I suggest reading this document:
catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?RecNum=6266
I think most Christians would help a homeless man standing next to them if they truly understood their situation and they knew they would be safe in doing so. Most probably do, just as most are probably donating to the Tsunami relief funds.
However, it is justifiable to be more upset seeing 2 men kissing because that is sin and leads to spiritual (eternal) death whereas a homeless man may be suffering but not for all of eternity. The 2 men kissing have are in a potentially greater disastrous situation than the homeless man.
The Church does not demand you to stay alone. The Church simply proclaims the truth that all marital acts should be in marriage in accordance with natural law created by God Himself and that doing anything contrary to this separates ourselves from God and causes very bad results to ourselves - especially our image - made in His image and likeness. The Church makes no demands. The Church cares greatly for you soul and your well-being and will speak the truth even though they know it is hard for you to hear and may take years to conform your will to. If they do not speak it, they are letting you think you are on the right road when you are not - that is not love. The beatific vision - eternal bliss multitude times beyond anything we can possible imagine - is well worth the temporary sacrifice now to obtain.
Where did the Lord say this?
True. But most of those that love homosexuals do think about what it means to tell them the truth.
Jesus said if you abide in Him then you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free. He also told Peter that upon him (the Rock) He will build His Church. The Church cannot be wrong on a moral matter of Jesus Himself would be a liar or some other “church” has ALL truth.
Why do you think that is?
Peace in Christ
L
Lisa_N
Guest
Tantum ergo:
I also found C.S. Lewis’s writings about ‘worshipping idols’ very profound. Just reading the Ten Commandments I had visions of carvings or other false gods but in all of us are tempted to worship a false god whether it’s homosexuality and “pleasure” or money or another person. I struggle every day with my own demons.
For all of us it’s a struggle to overcome our temptations and urges. Every day I think of the things I’ve done wrong and every night I resolve to do better. What I find incomprehensible about homosexual apologists, is that they think somehow their challenge, the thorn in their side is every so much sharper than anyone else’s. That it’s easy for all the rest of us to give up our own desires and try to walk with Christ. But for them, well they shouldn’t be expected to do differently because “God made me this way.” Thus they are justified to ignore this particular teaching because they are somehow different and their sin is tougher to overcome than any other. Tell that to someone who’s giving up an addiction…
Lisa N
Like the arguments for abortion, the arguments for homosexuality (or any other sin) fail if you insert any other non-life affirming behavior or sin into the argument. It’s really not that bad. It feels good. It’s natural for me. It’s the way God made me. If you inserted drunkeness, violence, stealing, lying, envy…you name it, into the same sentence would anyone buy the argument? Why then are people so compelled to accept homosexuality as some sort of special activity and no rules apply?
I also found C.S. Lewis’s writings about ‘worshipping idols’ very profound. Just reading the Ten Commandments I had visions of carvings or other false gods but in all of us are tempted to worship a false god whether it’s homosexuality and “pleasure” or money or another person. I struggle every day with my own demons.
For all of us it’s a struggle to overcome our temptations and urges. Every day I think of the things I’ve done wrong and every night I resolve to do better. What I find incomprehensible about homosexual apologists, is that they think somehow their challenge, the thorn in their side is every so much sharper than anyone else’s. That it’s easy for all the rest of us to give up our own desires and try to walk with Christ. But for them, well they shouldn’t be expected to do differently because “God made me this way.” Thus they are justified to ignore this particular teaching because they are somehow different and their sin is tougher to overcome than any other. Tell that to someone who’s giving up an addiction…
Lisa N
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Island_Oak
Guest
I think that this aspect is one for which those with a homosexual orientation are profoundly in need of compassion. Heterosexuals DO have the option and opportunity to unite themselves in a marital relationaship and indulge, if you will, their sexual desires. There is an undeniably unique intimacy that comes from physical as well as emotional union. Homosexuals are no less invested with sexual appetite or desire for intimacy than heterosexuals, yet have no legitimate outlet for such desires according to the Church. Their ONLY option is chastity–a particularly challenging and life-long struggle. And one which I feel differs substantially and profoundly from the type of chastity some do practice on occasion within marriage or in the chosen vocations of religious life.
By this post I am not attemting to toss church teaching on this matter out the window. Rather, I’m urging some gentle compassion be shown to those who make this tremendous sacrifice, as well as to all of those who are struggling to reconcile the conflicting demandsof their physical and spiritual desires.
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fix
Guest
Lisa N:
Right. This is part of the propaganda machine. It is accepted even by well meaning Christians. It is self serving, self absorbed and insulting to all other people who have their own crosses to bear.
- Status