Why the Church no longer teaches the superiority of celibacy over marriage

[Mboo]

may be my english expression is not right. But a concubine is someone with whom you have an intimate life without being married

 

[Mboo]

Rather, the purpose of marriage is for the husband and wife to help each other, and their children grow in holiness. When it is done well, it provides an excellent witness and I’ve seen it also provides the environment to encourage people to to much further lengths in holiness than when they were single (and presumably celibate).

This is true. But if a person is looking for spiritual support, he can looking for a good spiritual friendship, a good spiritual companion. Your wife may be a spiritual helper I do not disagree, as she may not be. A person may very well marry a woman who does not share his faith, his marriage will not be less sanctifying.
Everything you say is true but it’s accidental, it’s not intrinsic to any marriage. So all you say: spiritual friendship, caring for children (or other people) if that’s really what you’re looking for we can find them without needing to get married. There are so many old people left in retirement homes, orphans who need support, etc.

 

[Mboo]

Prétendre que le mariage est le signe d’un manque de foi est dangereux et absurde. Je ne pense pas que je connaisse de bons couples catholiques qui se sont mariés en tant que secours au cas où la foi ne fonctionnerait pas. Parlant pour moi-même, je peux dire que je me marierais principalement parce que Dieu m’a conduit à le faire.

that’s not quite what I said or rather you truncated my reasoning.
I said that when one sees the benefits of sacred celibacy in this life, and in eternity, logically only an ignorance or an unaware of these benefits (what I have called a weak Faith) OR a will unable to choose sacred celibacy can justify one does not choose it.

Celibacy, while a higher calling is not automatically superior, as while it frees one from the responsibilities of marriage, the space left by those responsibilities needs to be filled somehow. Priesthood and religious life, by their nature, provide excellent means of doing so. Outside of such a context, while living a holy life is very much possible, it is a lot more difficult. I remember I once heard someone say that they were reconsidering the idea of marriage because he valued his independence the priesthood. I knew that was no way to discern any kind of vocation and that in practice, it would mean just spending more time in the pub or just lazing around.

You are right, but if someone is incapable of giving himself totally to the services of the human family in distress and needs to have his own children to order his life, or if he can not devote all his free time the contemplation of God and angels is that he has an imperfection in his will.
Indeed, there is so much opportunity to use one’s spare time to support the human family in distress that there is no objective justification for wanting to found a private family without necessity, if not the incapacity to turn completely to the human family in distress. , while there is no expressed need to bring to the world a child who has not asked to be born.
In conclusion we should aim for what is more excellent, that is what makes sense, and it is by noting that we do not have the vocation for what is excellent, that we should then turn to lower vocations. So in my opinion the discernment we are talking about must follow a certain logical order

 

[AdamP88]

I don’t think that term is used much anymore. It’s kind of archaic.

 

[AdamP88]

You are right, but if someone is incapable of giving himself totally to the services of the human family in distress and needs to have his own children to order his life, or if he can not devote all his free time the contemplation of God and angels is that he has an imperfection in his will.

Indeed, there is so much opportunity to use one’s spare time to support the human family in distress that there is no objective justification for wanting to found a private family without necessity,

So is it a sin, in your eyes, to get married and have a family because “you want to”?

 

[AdamP88]

I said that when one sees the benefits of sacred celibacy in this life, and in eternity, logically only an ignorance or an unaware of these benefits (what I have called a weak Faith) OR a will unable to choose sacred celibacy can justify one does not choose it.

You do realise that the Church does not teach this? And never has.

You are going far beyond what the Church says in this area. You also seem to misunderstand the meaning of a vocation. Some people are simply not called by God to be priests or celibate.

 

[Mboo]

Sorry, but St. Paul has advised to marry by “default”, when we have imperfections that make it impossible to live in celibacy.
When Jesus taught on marriage his disciples concluded that marriage is no longer beneficial, and Jesus said that not everyone understands this.

No it is today that one has a pastoral that seems totally incoherent to me, its option of overvalorization of marriage at the expense of celibacy is incoherent compared to past teachings, from Jesus in the Gospels to Pie12 in his encyclical Sacra Virnita

 

[Mboo]

I never said that marriage is bad, or is a sin. From my point of view, I find that celibacy should be preferred, but to say that one prefers celibacy does not mean that one will necessarily be single. I would have preferred to be rich, but I am not. A soldier would have preferred to be high-ranking but he is not.
So saying that celibacy should be preferred does not mean that everyone would be made to be single.

 

[AdamP88]

Sorry, but St. Paul has advised to marry by “default”, when we have imperfections that make it impossible to live in celibacy.

When Jesus taught on marriage his disciples concluded that marriage is no longer beneficial, and Jesus said that not everyone understands this.

No it is today that one has a pastoral that seems totally incoherent to me, its option of overvalorization of marriage at the expense of celibacy is incoherent compared to past teachings, from Jesus in the Gospels to Pie12 in his encyclical Sacra Virnita

Well that is just your opinion. The Church doesn’t teach what you are saying. The Church also doesn’t interpret St. Paul in the manner you do.

 

[AdamP88]

Indeed, there is so much opportunity to use one’s spare time to support the human family in distress that there is no objective justification for wanting to found a private family without necessity, if not the incapacity to turn completely to the human family in distress

This seems to imply that it would be a sin to marry when the alternative is to serve the Church.

In any case, what you are saying goes beyond what the Church teaches. That is just a fact.

Either that or you are just expressing your opinion very badly.

 

[PetraG]

Our Lord put it this way:
The disciples said to him, “If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” He answered, “Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom that is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.” Matt 19:11-12’

He was saying that celibacy is not for all, but for those to whom it is granted by the grace of God. It is not a superior way of life for those who are too weak for it because they do not have a vocation for it. It is not wrong, therefore, for the Church to emphasize the need to listen for the vocation God has chosen and to accept it as the best, whether it is humble or average or unusual or exalted. The main thing is to seek to do the Will of God in all things and to be willing to sacrifice all to fulfill the state in life God has ordained. It is more exalted to be a virgin for God than not–and I mean meritorous in the eternal sense, not in scope of temporal things–but it is better to be a saintly housewife than a bad celibate. That is ultimately the superior way, is it not? To pursue a more exalted state when one has not been called to it, on the other hand, is pride. It sets one up for a fall that brings scandal to that exalted state. That is well worth avoiding. It is also well worth avoiding that anyone ever seek the most exalted state for any reason whatsoever other than a sincere desire to do the Will of God. If souls do that, then their crown will be eternal.

 

[TechieGuy]

@AdamPeter, look Mboo here is explaining how his walk with God is superior to yours and mine because we are attached to the pleasures of the flesh and he’s renounced all that and spends his time meditating on God and the angels while we are distracted by our wives.

What’s so hard to understand about that? He’ll have a special crown in Heaven to look forward to that us married guys are going to miss out on.

It is all very straightforward.

 

[BarbTh]

Part 1 of 2

@Mboo fasts, mortifications, silence, solitude, meditations

These disciplines with sound motivation can predispose one to contemplation, but only The Lord can gratuitously draw one into it. I couldn’t help but laugh at a thought that just popped into my mind: “I wonder how The Lord would take to me going to extremes in order to force Him into granting me contemplation?” The Church is, of course, against severe fasts and mortifications etc. unless under spiritual direction with permission/advice given.
Some of our saints have indulged in almost hair raising fasts, mortifications etc. I think it would be grandiose and pride to follow suit without seeking advice, including from one’s doctor. Our saints are all marked by outstanding supernatural Graces and most of them at a time when such matters were regarded as saintly and holy - and they are with right motivation and today seeking advice first. The question is “Am I also saintly and holy sufficiently to follow suit?” These saints were not canonized for their outstanding and rare self denials - rather they were canonized for their outstanding life of virtue and all marked by Humility, about which St Augustine states “Humility is the foundation of ALL the virtues” and St Albert in his Ancient and Original Rule for Carmel “Common sense is the guide of all virtue”.

Oh for the Grace of conciseness - denied to date and truly in my case were it EVER granted…an absolutely outstanding supernatural Grace! The nun who taught me would regularly state to me personally “Empty vessels make the most sound”. Took me many years taking it as a negative before I grasped the positive side of the comment.

He was saying that celibacy is … sadly had to delete rest of the post for word count._**

Excellent post, good thinking well put. Especially that part I have highlighted in bold and italics - good sound theology. Detachment is vitally important and the probably final and most difficult detachment is detachment from self and one’s concepts, ideas, plans and hopes.

Celibacy is not there available for all by simply choosing it. One might have a preference and leaning to celibacy (a Grace in itself) and able to live celibate (after some time of testing oneself) - this is a supernatural Grace. In the final analysis however, celibacy is always a special Grace from God. It is not the natural disposition and nature of human beings, rather it is a supernatural Grace from God to some human beings.

cont… next post

 

[BarbTh]

Part 2 of 2

From the very beginning in Genesis Chapter 1, God commands Adam and Eve to “increase and multiply and fill the earth”. It is written into all human DNA as it were. Even into the DNA of nuns and priests, who sublimate rather than repress or supress.

Chaste Celibacy is most always spoken in its negative aspect, in its positive aspect it is to embrace the Will of God to the exclusion of all else.

Not embracing celibacy is not a sign of weakness, nor has The Church ever taught that it was. The Church teaches that God gives us options in vocations while He may have granted special Graces to some to live celibate for one point only. Why doesn’t God give this special Grace to all - that is a question for Heaven. One will be on an almost endless merry go round to start need to know the why’s of all things. Peaceful and Joyful Trust and Confidence in God must come into our journeys until finally in hope it is the “day star” of a continual embrace from God in any and all circumstances, positive or negative in nature.

“I (God) am Mysterious, folks…live with it!” -
Rowan Atkinson in the film, “Keeping Mum” see below (Some things are and will be always Mystery simply because God is Ultimate Mystery)

Mind you, marriage and especially once children come along asks some very special Graces and even supernatural Graces not natural to the human being - and for supernatural Graces, we all have The Sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Communion right throughout our journey, guiding, strengthening and motivating. Come Holy Spirit!

Thank you for your post again, @PetraG. Warmed my heart.

---

The film, “Keeping Mum” can be viewed in the part where Atkinson makes the quote - HERE 3half minute video.
“Keeping Mum” is, of course, a comedy - a black comedy - but along the way here and there some things that really made me think. A cute little British black comedy I enjoyed, laughing at times and feeling bad and guilty about it!

If you would like to read one man’s summary of the movie, go to: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/movies/15mum.html

 

[BarbTh]

Very funny excellent tongue in cheek post (I sure hope!)

 

[Mboo]

the superiority and excellence of sacred celibacy over marriage is a dogma of divine faith enunciated by the Church. The Church used precisely these texts of St Paul and St Mathieux to support this dogma
What is superior and more excellent ordinarily must be preferable to what is less excellent. For the goods of the world naturally men seek what is superior and more excellent, parents encourage their children to excellence.

But when it comes to our salvation, we say no, we must not necessarily prefer, we must see if God calls you to that. Whereas when it comes to the goods of the world, one does not say to one’s child “do not necessarily seek to continue your studies to be a discerning engineer, maybe God wants you to be a simple maneuver”

It is a problem of logic. as celibacy is superior and more excellent than marriage, it must be preferred by default to weddings.

 

[Mboo]

He was saying that celibacy is not for all, but for those to whom it is granted by the grace of God. It is not a superior way of life for those who are too weak for it because they do not have a vocation for it. It is not wrong, therefore, for the Church to emphasize the need to listen for the vocation God has chosen and to accept it as the best, whether it is humble or average or unusual or exalted.

Saint Paul has already given the pattern of discernment. He has said clearly and repeatedly that we should prefer celibacy, but if we have imperfections that prevent us from living in sacred celibacy we can get married.And more it makes sense when we see the benefits intrinsic characteristics of celibacy.
Only today the Church asks to follow the call of God without saying how this call consitute precisely, as if it were a mysterious call, yet St. Paul had already said how to discern!
I repeat myself once again it is a problem of logic of the moment when the Church has admitted as dogma the superiority of sacred celibacy, we should first see if we can live in sacred celibacy before possibly considering marriage. if necessary! it is according to this logic that St Paul gave his advice.

 

[Mboo]

Chaste Celibacy is most always spoken in its negative aspect, in its positive aspect it is to embrace the Will of God to the exclusion of all else.

Yes, but the will of God is known on this point, but it is rejected today for unacknowledged reasons
I quote St. Paul again

Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

So the ideal is continence, if not consider marriage. What is wrong with this council of common sense of St. Paul?

And this is the will of God, why seek another mysterious will when he has already put it in writing?

 

[Mboo]

I am no longer a virgin, I come out of a polygamy, so I would not have this special crown, and I do not spend my time with angels, but I spend it on the internet, so I’m not a model of vertu. I’m not talking about myself, I just want to understand the logic, the reason why the Church no longer teaches the excellence of celibacy, and rather gives a pastoral to the fallacious limit on marriage, it’s this is my real problem.

 

[Mboo]

The Church teaches that God gives us options in vocations while He may have granted special Graces to some to live celibate for one point only.

I forgot one thing, God never refuses the gift of perfect chastity to who asked, this is a dogma (Canon 9 of the marriage the Council of Trent)
So, as I have always believed, being single or married, is more a matter of voluntary choice than a vocation .
But as the Church no longer teaches the great benefits of celibacy on marriage, and naturally people are attracted to a life as a couple, it will be very difficult to see people choose what is great … because a pastoral that hides certain truth.