Why the clapping?

[ricmat]

What about the stigma of not clapping, when one or two people start? There is group pressure to clap even if you don’t think it’s appropriate, or you don’t like the reason. Example (admittedly extreme, but shows the point):

Solzhenitsyn wrote:
At the conclusion of the conference, a tribute to Comrade Stalin was called for. Of course, everyone stood up. … For three minutes, four minutes, five minutes, “the stormy applause, rising to an ovation,” continued. But palms were getting sore and raised arms were already aching. And the older people were panting from exhaustion. It was becoming insufferably silly even to those who really adored Stalin.
However, who would dare to be the first to stop? … After all, NKVD men were standing in the hall applauding and watching to see who would quit first! …
[The comrades] couldn’t stop now till they collapsed with heart attacks! At the rear of the hall, which was crowded, they could of course cheat a bit, clap less frequently, less vigorously, not so eagerly – but up there with the presidium where everyone could see them?
The director of the local paper factory, an independent and strong-minded man, stood with the presidium. Aware of all the falsity and all the impossibility of the situation, he still kept on applauding! Nine minutes! Ten! In anguish he watched the secretary of the District Party Committee, but the latter dared not stop. Insanity! To the last man! With make-believe enthusiasm on their faces, looking at each other with faint hope, the district leaders were just going to go on and on applauding till they fell where they stood, till they were carried out of the hall on stretchers! …
Then, after eleven minutes, the director of the paper factory assumed a businesslike expression and sat down in his seat. And, oh, a miracle took place! … To a man, everyone else stopped dead and sat down. They had been saved!
That same night the factory director was arrested. They easily pasted ten years on him. … After he had signed Form 206, the final document of the interrogation, his interrogator reminded him:
“Don’t ever be the first to stop applauding.”

 

[prayerrider]

Solzhenitsyn. Brilliantly sardonic as always. The nuanced pathos in his narratives is unequalled.
At least the factory director didn’t get the nine grams.

 

[prayerrider]

Humans fear silence, just as they fear darkness. Yet God speaks loudest in silence, and shines brightest in darkness.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

This conversation makes me realize how fortunate I am to be in a parish that has a separate Blessed Sacrament chapel. It’s quiet and prayerful in there. Someone who wants to pray after Mass can separate themselves from what they consider disturbing without getting angry or frustrated themselves or frustrating or angering others.

 

[prayerrider]

Good answer by Fr. Serpa.

 

[prayerrider]

A friendly hint: all caps is the Internet equivalent of shouting.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

There doesn’t seem to be much concept of “sacred space” anymore, in some parishes.

You are exactly right. I definitely think this is the very issue. Whether it is clapping, talking or laughing, IMHO, it can be reasoned back to a lack of respect for sacred spaces and so much lack of remembering that Jesus is present in the tabernacle and yes, that a sacrifice had just taken place and there are people who would like to pray and give thanks.

It would be different if we were just talking about applaus after an ordination, once in a while, but it’s not. Clapping during and after Mass, IMHO, is becoming a liturgical abuse.

 

[prayerrider]

At least it’s usually very brief, compared to the socializing in the nave that sometimes goes on at length. Hence my resolve to pray the after-Mass prayers elsewhere, if the conversation is too loud to tune out and I can’t wait it out.

 

[otjm]

We had a problem with chattering before Mass. The pastor, with the choir directors (for different Masses) came up with a simple solution.

It did not require the pastor to give long and impassioned homilies indicating the absolutely outright abysmal behavior of the Chatters.

It did not require either the pastor or the choir director to suddenly and with the aid of the microphone shout “SHHUUUUTUUP!!!”.

About 8 minutes before Mass started, the choir sings a hymn (not one to be used for the day) which succeeds in getting the silence; then announcements a minute or two later, then the entrance hymn. Worked like a charm.

But golly, I belong to a parish (and know a number of other parishes, all suburban) where the people chat with one another after the end of Mass. And I have been to one of the parishes (inner city) which prides itself in a silent withdrawal after Mass, at which point the members scatter to the seven seas and the four winds. Those who choose to remain for some prayer time are left in silence.

Please note that I said they pride themselves in their silent fleeing of the church. It is one of the coldest, most unfriendly parishes I have been to.

One of the things that went around my parish like wildfire (note: this was chatting) on Christmas morning was the fact that a long time parishioner had left to meet Christ this last Monday (Christmas eve) morning. And of course some of that chatting had to do with the funeral (yesterday) and concern for the family members (he was stage 4 pancreatic cancer for two years) and memories shared of him.

And I am sure that Christ was horrified at the chatting.

NOT.

The church was about maybe 50 people short of standing room only for his funeral. Ah, those chatting Catholics.

Please do not misunderstand me: I in no way am saying you are wrong to want to spend some time with Our Lord. However, I will repeat myself: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is… insanity. What to do? Leave the church and walk around the block (or the parking lot) saying your prayers, if being away from chatter makes that easier. If your church has adoration, spend time there (mine has 24 hour perpetual adoration), or perhaps find another parish nearby. Drive home after Mass (or wlak if you are nearby) and say your prayers then.

And before you come back that such can be done at coffee and donuts - I am aware of that. The point I am trying to make is you can either be mad each week (and I find being mad does nothing to my spirituality) while attempting to pray while others chat, or you can find a different way to skin the cat. Your call. I am not saying you are wrong, but rather that you are extremely unlikely to get this changed, so what has to change is you.

And that is a phrase I have spent a significant part of my life working on - and I am still working on it.

 

[otjm]

Where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst of them.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

About 8 minutes before Mass started, the choir sings a hymn (not one to be used for the day) which succeeds in getting the silence; then announcements a minute or two later, then the entrance hymn. Worked like a charm.

I’m glad this helped at your parish but IMHO, to get people to be silent before Mass there needs to be a hymn sung and announcements, shows that people have totally lost respect for where they are and that is sad.

We all have things we want to bring to Jesus in prayer and usually before Mass is a very good time to give those to Him and especially in front of the tabernacle.

What to do? Leave the church and walk around the block (or the parking lot) saying your prayers, if being away from chatter makes that easier

At our parish we usually have a rosary said prior to Mass and recently a couple, probably about in their 60’s came in, sat down a few rows behind everyone saying the rosary, and then began audibly chatting to each other and chuckling during the rosary. Many people turned and gave a longing look for silence but went completely ignored.

Should we all have gotten up and walked around the block to say the rosary and allow others to talk and laugh?

In other instances when chatter is an issue, should the people who want to pray be the ones to have to leave, while leaving the chatter to continue in front of the tabernacle?

I have been to one of the parishes (inner city) which prides itself in a silent withdrawal after Mass, at which point the members scatter to the seven seas and the four winds. Those who choose to remain for some prayer time are left in silence.

Please note that I said they pride themselves in their silent fleeing of the church. It is one of the coldest, most unfriendly parishes I have been to.

I have seen people leave in silence in many parishes and then stand outside and visit and talk and laugh, allowing others inside to pray. This is how I grew up and one thing we knew was where we were in each place. Silence in the Holy place and talking and laughing outside.

There doesn’t have to be anything cold about it.

I am glad when this issue comes up here at CAF, because it gives people who want to pray a voice. It shows that it is an issue in the Church. It can also encourage those who don’t even know they should be silent, an opportunity to hear other parishioners concern.