Why the insistence on linking abortion with the Holocaust?

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Myth #3: The Holocaust was illegal.

Fact: The Holocaust did not violate either German national law or international law. The British invented the concentration camp during the Boer War, the Germans simply adopted it. German courts carefully stripped victims of all legal rights prior to the Final Solution. By 1941, when the death camp system began operation, the Jews had no rights. The Reich could legally treat them as it wished. Everyone recognized this. Indeed, a major Allied argument against conducting the Nuremburg trials was precisely the fact that these trials attempted to enforce non-existent law.

Myth #4: The Holocaust killed Jews almost exclusively.

Fact: While Jews were certainly foremost among the victims, and six million died in the various camps, so did five million Gentiles, including at least three million Catholics. Auschwitz killed Catholics for 26 consecutive months before the first Jews were shipped there. Some demographers point out that on a per capita basis, the Gypsies were killed at a greater rate than the Jews. Jehovah’s Witnesses and homosexuals were also marked for destruction. The Holocaust was modelled on the equally heinous destruction of Armenian Christians by secular and Muslim Turks twenty years earlier, a genocide which had been essentially ignored in Europe and the United States.

Myth #5: No important scientific experiments were really attempted.

Fact: Many of the death camp experiments were run by respected German scientists researching major health threats of the day, such as typhus and hypothermia. Much of the data was either captured and utilized by the Allies or was quietly published in German medical journals in the post-war years, sometimes by the very doctors who had assisted in the prison camp experiments. In fact, the saline abortion procedure used in the U.S. through the early 1980’s was developed in the Nazi death camps for use on Jews, Slavs, and Poles. U.S. doctors simply lifted it from the Nazis.

So, how accurate is the legal abortion-Holocaust comparison? The Holocaust grew out of scientific work and legal precedent begun in England and the U.S. Legal abortion expresses today’s economic and psychological sciences, which assume economic and psychological harm to women will be reduced if their children are killed. The rhetoric used by the advocates of legal abortion against the child in the womb (“a disease,” “bacilli” “parasites”) repeats the Nazi rhetoric against the Jews. Both German and U.S. courts stripped their victims of all rights prior to destroying them. In both cases, medical experimentation on living and dead victims grew in parallel with the expansion of the programs. In both cases, researchers support their work with the same rationales. Other parallels could be brought forward if space permitted.

An objective study of the Holocaust and legal abortion demonstrates striking similarities. However, there are differences. For instance, the Nazis felt they had to hide the death camps to avoid general outrage; nearly all such camps were in Poland or Byelorussia, not Germany. In contrast, Americans debate but largely accept abortion clinics in our midst. In terms of pure body count, Hitler did not match Stalin, Stalin did not match Mao Tse Tung, and Mao has nothing on the U.S. Supreme Court. The differences are not all to our benefit.

God condemns all sin, but it has always been the constant teaching of The Church that God’s justice demands that pains of hell differ in degree according to demerit. This holds true not only of the pain of sense, but also of the pain of loss. A more intense hatred of God, a more vivid consciousness of utter abandonment by Divine goodness. Dante’s Inferno although a work of fiction, gives a vivid account of how sin and hell might may play out, not to mention some of the Saint’s visions.

Pax,
Tarpeian
Myth #1, and the counterargument attributing social Darwinism as the source of Hitler’s belief in the inherent inferiority of the Jewish race, and Myth #5, and the counterargument regarding the legitimacy of scientific inquiry among German scientists, have been written about extensively, and the consensus viewpoint is that these counterclaims are part of revisionist history with respect to the Nazi Holocaust and have no legitimate basis.
 
Where does this figure come from? Here are the USHMM’s figures: ushmm.org/research/library/faq/details.php?topic=03#03
Hello gracepoole,

I’m not certain where Kellmeyer cited his statistics. I will send him an email, but below is the Holocaust Memorial Museum figure I found on Wiki. I have been to both Holocaust museum’s 6 times. Once to the one in Richmond, Virginia where I recall seeing the figure, and 5 times to the D.C. memorial. I highly recommend the one in Richmond to everyone.

Source: United States Holocaust Memorial Museum:

It’s hard to ascertain exactly, but of the six million Polish people that died in the Holocaust, 3 million were Jews and 3 million were Catholics. 50 000 Catholic priests and religious also.

Pax,
Tarpeian
 
Hello meltzerboy,

Can you direct me to the primary sources so I can read the other claims?

Thank’s,
Tarpeian
 
I’m looking now I will see what I can find. I can see number one being argued both ways, but I’m not sure about number five.

Pax,
Tarpeian
 
Hello gracepoole,

I’m not certain where Kellmeyer cited his statistics. I will send him an email, but below is the Holocaust Memorial Museum figure I found on Wiki. I have been to both Holocaust museum’s 6 times. Once to the one in Richmond, Virginia where I recall seeing the figure, and 5 times to the D.C. memorial. I highly recommend the one in Richmond to everyone.

Source: United States Holocaust Memorial Museum:

It’s hard to ascertain exactly, but of the six million Polish people that died in the Holocaust, 3 million were Jews and 3 million were Catholics. 50 000 Catholic priests and religious also.

Pax,
Tarpeian
I’m sorry, where on the USHMM’s site is this located? Not that I’m familiar with its site in its entirety, but I’ve worked with many historians, archivists, curators, and educators at the USHMM and none have referenced this high a number for Catholic victims.
 
Murdering children by the millions IS worse than the Holocaust, and the law will not accept them as persons–same like in Nazi Germany to its victims. I’m surprised that so many people are unaware of some satanists offering abortions to Satan.
 
Murdering children by the millions IS worse than the Holocaust, and the law will not accept them as persons–same like in Nazi Germany to its victims. I’m surprised that so many people are unaware of some satanists offering abortions to Satan.
Is it the body count that makes it “worse” than the Holocaust? Or the fact that children are being murdered? 1.5 million children were murdered in the Holocaust. Or is that total not high enough to rank as being equal to the evil of abortion?
 
It is not a sacrifice aimed specifically at children. Abortion seems far more evil precisely because it is aimed at children specifically! And people are okay with it.

As far as I know the Germans were for the most part ignorant of what was happening in those camps.

I believe that not all sins are equal.
 
12 million people died during the Holocaust. 6 million, by far the larges group, were Jews. The other 6 million included Romany, the disabled, people of conscience who aided the Jews, the people of Poland, and many more. The Holocaust was a means of ridding the world of inferior or inconvenient people to produce a master race. This is the goal of Eugenics as well.
👍

I thought it was just woman’s rights.
 
It is not a sacrifice aimed specifically at children. Abortion seems far more evil precisely because it is aimed at children specifically! And people are okay with it.

As far as I know the Germans were for the most part ignorant of what was happening in those camps.

I believe that not all sins are equal.
Your view of the value of children’s lives over adult lives is not reaffirmed by the Church’s social teachings regarding the dignity of every human being. And your claim that most Germans were “for the most part ignorant of what was happening in those camps” is irrelevant.
 
We can’t trust the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum?
I haven’t looked into it.

What I do know is that many others have suffered and not just World War II, Rwanda, Turkey, Ukraine, Cambodia, China.

Why aren’t their Memorial Museums for all of these people.
 
I haven’t looked into it.

What I do know is that many others have suffered and not just World War II, Rwanda, Turkey, Ukraine, Cambodia, China.

Why aren’t their Memorial Museums for all of these people.
It’s a Holocaust museum – not a Rwanda museum. If it reports a different victim count for Catholics, this doesn’t mean it’s somehow biased. But I would suggest reading more about the USHMM’s use of the term “Holocaust” as opposed to Yad Vashem’s…
 
It’s a Holocaust museum – not a Rwanda museum. If it reports a different victim count for Catholics, this doesn’t mean it’s somehow biased. But I would suggest reading more about the USHMM’s use of the term “Holocaust” as opposed to Yad Vashem’s…
Are they not geared towards certain ends? Seems so, they may be “trustworthy”, they also seem to have a special interest in their work which may not translate to being totally objective.
On November 1, 1978, President Jimmy Carter established the President’s Commission on the Holocaust, chaired by Elie Wiesel, a prominent author and Holocaust survivor. Its mandate was to investigate the creation and maintenance of a memorial to victims of the Holocaust and an appropriate annual commemoration to them. On September 27, 1979, the Commission presented its report to the President, recommending the establishment of a national Holocaust memorial museum in Washington, D.C. with three main components: a national museum/memorial, an educational foundation, and a Committee on Conscience.[4]
After a unanimous vote by the United States Congress in 1980 to establish the museum, the federal government made available 1.9 acres (0.77 ha) of land adjacent to the Washington Monument for construction. Under Director Jeshajahu Weinberg and Chairman Miles Lerman, nearly $190 million was raised from private sources for building design, artifact acquisition, and exhibition creation. In October 1988, President Ronald Reagan helped lay the cornerstone of the building, designed by the architect James Ingo Freed. Dedication ceremonies on April 22, 1993 included speeches by American President Bill Clinton, Israeli President Chaim Herzog, Chairman Harvey Meyerhoff, and Elie Wiesel. On April 26, 1993, the Museum opened to the general public. Its first visitor was the 14th Dalai Lama of Tibet.[5]
Are Catholics and others involved in the research?? Appears this is mostly work by Jews, I hope they report everything they know but I would have to say they, like so many may be unable to be totally objective and may not be without some bias.
 
Your view of the value of children’s lives over adult lives is not reaffirmed by the Church’s social teachings regarding the dignity of every human being. And your claim that most Germans were “for the most part ignorant of what was happening in those camps” is irrelevant.
If you can’t see why mothers killing their own children is a even more sinful you should read the gospel and reflect on the family in Catholic teaching. And it is relevant because people know what abortion is and choose it anyway. Abortion is downright satanic.
 
I haven’t looked into it.

What I do know is that many others have suffered and not just World War II, Rwanda, Turkey, Ukraine, Cambodia, China.

Why aren’t their Memorial Museums for all of these people.
Of course there have been other genocides or holocausts, whichever term one prefers, including the Armenian genocide, as another poster pointed out, in addition to those you mentioned. The goal of the Jewish Memorial is to remember and honor the millions of European Jews, approximately two-thirds of the population, who were murdered, as well as to ensure this kind of atrocity never happens again to any group of people. There has been a lot of revisionist history involved in the Nazi Holocaust such as limiting the scope of the murder to thousands of Jews rather than millions, stating that most of those–Jews and non-Jews–who died were not murdered but succumbed to disease brought on by starvation, denying the awareness of any of the German people regarding what was taking place, as well as rejecting that the FDR administration could have done more, such as bombing the railroad tracks which transported Jews to the death camps. The Memorial is designed to set the record straight by documenting what actually took place and enabling survivors to tell their stories. If you want to call this bias, so be it. Remember though that the bias also includes a fresh look at the role of the Catholic Church in relation to the Holocaust, which is now viewed by Jewish historians as much more favorable than had previously been thought.
 
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