Why the Islamic Hadiths are not too reliable

[planten]

** I admit that the Muslim’s Hadith is not very reliable. But still it is more reliable than the bible NT. It is an important part of the Muslim’s faith. It describes the doings and sayings of the prophet Muhammad just like bible NT describes the life story of Jesus. That is my post according to the topic.**

 

[AgnosTheist]

^ I agree with you.

 

[MugenOne]

Some of the Muhammed sayings are gibberish. Here are some examples:

The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said: “Yes.” He said: “This is because of the deficiency of her mind.”

[Muhammad said], “O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is the reason for it?” He said: “O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray.”

** I admit that the Muslim’s Hadith is not very reliable. But still it is more reliable than the bible NT. It is an important part of the Muslim’s faith. It describes the doings and sayings of the prophet Muhammad just like bible NT describes the life story of Jesus. That is my post according to the topic.**

 

[Verisimilitude]

The problem is that all Muslims love Jesus and believe in him ( except that he was a God). The muslims love and believe in him ( to some good extent). But what do the christians do?? They do nothing of the sort except some kind of abuse for Muhammad.

Mohammed abused others. Jesus did not.

God does not think and it is not true that God entered into the womb of woman. jesus was not son of God. He was the son of a woman. That is in accordance with the words of the bible too. You all know that Jesus was son of Mary, a woman. That much is certain, definite. Rest is all wishful thinking, surmising.

Who was the Father of Jesus?

Bible is not telling you to disbelieve in the Quran or to hate (deny and oppose) the men of God.

Jesus warned of false prophets. The Qur’an tells you to disbelieve the Bible.

That is all impossible. You try to do that. Say: God told me Abraham had no children, Jesus was really a female, and Mohammed never married Khadijah; then see what people will think about you. They will come to you asking you if you are mad man? Try it practically, please, and do not build castles in the air.

You call me mad for saying Jesus is a woman if God told me so? Much like Mohammed says Jesus was not crucified because a spirit told him so, yes? Mohammed built castles in the air. Do not believe him.

** I Have replied to most of your problems above. I have nothing (no problem) against Jesus or his true disciples. It is you who need to understand things in real practical perspective.

I do not hate any one, not even you. You are responsible for your deeds. Nobody will help you in the next world. And nobody will help me in the next world. What we are doing now will remain with us and our children for some time. (long time?)**

I do not hate you either, but the spirit that spoke to Mohammed lied and misled. Proof is that it tells different about Jesus, Moses, and Abraham. Do not believe that spirit that talked to Mohammed.

 

[planten]

Mohammed abused others. Jesus did not.

Jesus abused many in his own life time, calling his own people hypocrites and wicked etc. See below:

 

[trichocereus]

That’s a good question of yours…

Not only are Hadiths unreliable, in my humble opinion, The Holy Quran is not reliable, as well… First of all, Hadiths were collected by Muhhamad’s companions and they sound more like a collection of urban legends and, from the standpoint of sheer logic, it would be senseless to make them a center of a religion. They are a good philosophic read, written in a typically Arabic way, and from the Arabic point of view… As with Quran, there are many contradictions within Islamic texts. The example of ‘the Moon miracle’ is more like a mirage than a real miracle. And compared with miracles performed by Christ by the power of God it seems that it was not a miracle at all…

What is the most interesting, and many people don’t know about it, Prophet Muhammad himself doubted whether his revelation comes from God or is of demonic origin… of course, that would be too much for many people, but consider the false revelations of Mary, for instance: if they contradict the teachings of the Church - they are not coming from God… God is not a liar and is not full of contradictions… On the other hand, demons are not apt in religious matters, that’s why we have many contradictions in false revelations…

There is also a question of Muhammad’s prophethood… If he was a prophet, why, then, he spoke of himself "I am just a messanger’… There is a profound difference between these two terms…

 

[planten]

Some of the Muhammed sayings are gibberish. Here are some examples:

The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said: “Yes.” He said: “This is because of the deficiency of her mind.”

[Muhammad said], “O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is the reason for it?” He said: “O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray.”

Thanks for spreading Islam. At least Muhammad did not blame woman (Eve) for the original sin. That is a great comfort to all the ladies of the world.

 

[dolphinlove]

Thanks for spreading Islam. At least Muhammad did not blame woman (Eve) for the original sin. That is a great comfort to all the ladies of the world.

Go read the thread about women and Islam… very different view in there…

 

[planten]

That’s a good question of yours…

Not only are Hadiths unreliable, in my humble opinion, The Holy Quran is not reliable, as well… First of all, Hadiths were collected by Muhhamad’s companions and they sound more like a collection of urban legends and, from the standpoint of sheer logic, it would be senseless to make them a center of a religion. They are a good philosophic read, written in a typically Arabic way, and from the Arabic point of view… As with Quran, there are many contradictions within Islamic texts. The example of ‘the Moon miracle’ is more like a mirage than a real miracle. And compared with miracles performed by Christ by the power of God it seems that it was not a miracle at all…

** I Could not understand why that was not a miracle. Is it because it is too difficult? The splitting of the moon could be something symbolic too like many miracles of Jesus. Jesus did not bring any dead person to life. He cures some sick but there was a pond which used to heal the sick too.**

What is the most interesting, and many people don’t know about it, Prophet Muhammad himself doubted whether his revelation comes from God or is of demonic origin… of course, that would be too much for many people,

** If Muhammad recognised the angel on his first visit then it would be a joke as if he was knowing him very well. In any case you will try to find a fault. It is true that Muhammad did not know the angel until he told him. But Muhammad got the message alright.**

but consider the false revelations of Mary, for instance: if they contradict the teachings of the Church - they are not coming from God… God is not a liar and is not full of contradictions… On the other hand, demons are not apt in religious matters, that’s why we have many contradictions in false revelations…

I could not understand which way you are heading. Are you denying the miracles of Mary or something? What do you mean?

There is also a question of Muhammad’s prophethood… If he was a prophet, why, then, he spoke of himself "I am just a messanger’… There is a profound difference between these two terms…

That is not correct. Muhammad is a prophet as well as a messenger. So is Jesus, a prophet as well as a messenger of God. Jesus is not a God. He is a messenger of God and in the bible NT, jesus admits getting messages from God and passing on to the people. Jesus said "I cannot do anything of myself…"

 

[Eden]

** The topic is “Why the Islamic hadith are not too reliable?”

I give the answer. It is because they are just a slightly better than the bible NT. **.

Yes, the NT is only reliable to Muslims when something in the Scriptures can be contorted to support their views. Everything else has been “corrupted”. I’m not sure exactly how they determine what is corrupted in the NT and what is not, though, as Muhammad didn’t leave a manual on the subject. In fact, he never said the Bible was corrupted at all.

 

[Eden]

As far as we know, Joseph the carpentar was the father of Jesus as Mary also admitted it and scolded Jesus that she and his father (the word used there is for real father) were looking fro him all over the place. Do you trust the words of Mary. She understood Joseph as the father of Jesus and never mentioned Jesus as a son of God any time.

Jesus says throughout the New Testament who His Father is, including His response at the age of twelve when he was lost and found at the Temple:

“Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?” (Luke 2:49)

He was not speaking of St. Joseph here.

 

[RobbyS]

** I admit that the Muslim’s Hadith is not very reliable. But still it is more reliable than the bible NT. It is an important part of the Muslim’s faith. It describes the doings and sayings of the prophet Muhammad just like bible NT describes the life story of Jesus. That is my post according to the topic.**

Isa is not Jesus.

 

[planten]

Jesus says throughout the New Testament who His Father is, including His response at the age of twelve when he was lost and found at the Temple:

“Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?” (Luke 2:49)

He was not speaking of St. Joseph here.

** Jesus has no right to tell who is his father. He does not know about it.No one has any right. The mother has the right and can tell about the father of the child. But Mary never mentioned that Jesus was the son of god.

I feel that the church case in this matter is very weak.

Now about Joseph the carpentar. You are making him a saint. He was a greatman, even visited by the angel too. But how could he be any saint?? He (Joseph) was too old to see or hear any preachings of Jesus. I believe Joseph had died before Jesus started his ministry. But let him be a saint. He was a good fellow, the husband of Mary and father of other children born from Mary.**

 

[planten]

Isa is not Jesus.

** Then who is Jesus?? It is just a name in the Quran. The mother of Isa is mary in teh Quran. The mother of Jesus is also Mary. So why cannot Jesus be Isa?? We pray to Allah that God forgive him and bless his soul.**

 

[dolphinlove]

** Then who is Jesus?? It is just a name in the Quran. The mother of Isa is mary in teh Quran. The mother of Jesus is also Mary. So why cannot Jesus be Isa?? We pray to Allah that God forgive him and bless his soul.**

Because that is the quran interpretation, not the bible.
Jesus is Jesus in the bible, that is who we refer him too, not this Isa.

 

[planten]

Because that is the quran interpretation, not the bible.
Jesus is Jesus in the bible, that is who we refer him too, not this Isa.

**That is no argument. The Abraham of OT is called Ibraheem in Quran. Then you would say that he is not the same person?

Moses is called Musa in Quran. You will say that he is not the same person. Your Jesus is called Isa in Quran. And your christ is no where. It is a greek word and Jesus was not a Greek person. So why you call your Jesus as christ??

Also your religion is named after a person (christ?). that is not a good thing at all. It is bad for a religion to be called by a persons name or by the name of a place. So your christianity is also foriegn. That is greek and not related to the place of Jesus. It is more related to the place of paul. jesus did not go to Greece. How you will explain those things to your friends?**

 

[inJESUS]

That is no argument. The Abraham of OT is called Ibraheem in Quran. Then you would say that he is not the same person? the name per se is not the problem. The Muslim Issa as portrayed in the Quran is not Jesus/Yeshua of the NT. No Jesus in the NT appeared to be crucified, no Jesus spoke in the cradle, no Jesus made birds of clay, no Jesus said to give alms as long as he lives…no Jesus said Ahmad is coming after him…this Issa is the plagiarism of aporcypha and gnosticism and muhammad’s agenda, not the Jesus/Yeshua known to the first Christians neither in NT nor Tradition.

 

[Angelos]

**
Also your religion is named after a person (christ?). that is not a good thing at all. It is bad for a religion to be called by a persons name or by the name of a place.** So your christianity is also foriegn. That is greek and not related to the place of Jesus. It is more related to the place of paul. jesus did not go to Greece. How you will explain those things to your friends?

You forget that the Koran calls Christians “Nazareans”, associating Jesus’ followers with the phrase “Jesus of Nazareth”. Thus, your scripture also calls a specific group of believers (Christians) “Nazareans” because of Jesus’ hometown (Nazareth). Is this not good for Allah to call a religion with the name of a person and that person’s hometown???

More, the Koran designates Islam as the religion of Abraham!

22:78. And strive for Allah with the endeavour which is His right. He hath chosen you and hath not laid upon you in religion any hardship; the religion of your father Abraham (is yours).

Surah 2:130 And who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself ? Verily We chose him in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.

It is true that Jesus did not go to Greece, but I cannot be sure if the authors of the Koran were Arabic. The Koran erroneously applies the name ISSA to Jesus, the correct Arabic version of which is YESUWA. It is clear that the writers of the Koran adopted the name ISSA from another language, and this version of the name in the Koran is closer to its Greek form (Iesus) than to the Arabic one.

 

[planten]

the name per se is not the problem. The Muslim Issa as portrayed in the Quran is not Jesus/Yeshua of the NT. No Jesus in the NT appeared to be crucified, no Jesus spoke in the cradle, no Jesus made birds of clay, no Jesus said to give alms as long as he lives…no Jesus said Ahmad is coming after him…this Issa is the plagiarism of aporcypha and gnosticism and muhammad’s agenda, not the Jesus/Yeshua known to the first Christians neither in NT nor Tradition.

**Yes, agree. The Isa described in the Quran is not the same as the Jesus described in the NT. But try to see that there are some similarities too and the very good ones. Of course you will be interested and looking for Jesus as a god in the Quran. That you will not find. But otherwise, the acceptance of his prayer is mentioned in the Quran.

The claim of the Jews ( in boast) that they killed Jesus son of Mary is mentioned in Quran.
The belief of the christians that in fact Jesus died on the cross is also mentioned in the Quran.

But then Quran goes to deny / reject the claim of both the Jews and the christians that Jesus was killed in any way. Quran says that Jesus did not die on the cross but it appeared to the people there as if he was a dead man.

So there are similarities as well as some differences in the Quranic teachings and the belief of the christians. So that is no harm. It does not mean that the Isa of the Quran is not the Jesus of the bible NT. The person is the same. Only the beliefs about him are different.**

 

[Irenaeus07]

It is a greek word and Jesus was not a Greek person. So why you call your Jesus as christ??

The answer to your question is simply, but the real question is this.

If Jesus wasn’t greek, why did the Quran arabize the Greek name of Jesus, Iēsous, and not the Aramic name of Jesus, Yeshua ? I mean the Arabic speaking Christian refer to Jesus as Yashua, which is the arabization of the Aramic, Yeshua.

Isn’t that the real question??? I mean, since you believe the Quran came directly from God??? Why did God chose, Isa, the Arabization of the Greek, Iēsous, name for Jesus, and not Yashua, the Arabization of the Aramic, Yeshua, which is the name Arabic speaking Christians refer to Jesus???

But to answer your question.

Jesus’ primary language was Aramic, and language of the gentiles of his area and time, was Greek and also there were many Greek speaking Jews, which is why 72 Jewish scholars two hundred years before Jesus, took the time to translated the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek which is known as the Septuagent, which is quoted frequently in the New Testament by Jesus. In the New Testament, Jesus uses quotes from the both the Greek and Hebrew Old Testament. There is a mixture.

Jesus knew and spoke Greek.