Why the Jobs Situation Is Worse Than It Looks

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Scott_Lafrance said:
That’s because we are going to power our factorys, cars, and heat our homes with hugs, puppy kisses, butterflies, and rainbows!
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Let’s not forget many problems will be solved if we just keep the tires on our cars inflated.
 
Nordar said:
Let’s not forget many problems will be solved if we just keep the tires on our cars inflated.
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Except, of course, that tires are made of petroleum, so we will need to simply inflate the air around the bare rims. 😉

I don’t think we know how many people gave up looking for work during the Depression, so I don’t know that we can really compare Depression era unemployment with current unemployment, quite.

But for absolute sure, this economy is not creating jobs. That doesn’t have anything to do with housing. What it has to do with is fear on the part of employers and potential employers who can’t “pay to play”, and it’s multifaceted. Fear of high interest rates due to overspending, fear of higher energy costs which Obama promised, fear of higher insurance costs which is already coming true, fear of higher taxes, fear of aggressive and “innovative” regulation which is coming true, and just general fear of the radicals who run the government nowadays. Nobody knows what they will do next, but small employers know this administration means them no good. And they doubt Obama has forgotten about “card check” either. Will it, like Dracula, rise again in 2015? Maybe. If Boeing can’t build a factory in South Carolina without being attacked by the government, then who is safe from it?

But it’s more than jobs. Talking to people who lived through the Depression, I learned that a big part of it was that people, particularly business people, just hunkered down, dealt with the business level they knew was reliably there, and did nothing forward-looking. I have talked to a lot of business people and that’s their attitude right now. It’s normal for businesses to be “forward looking”. They buy things for later. They build things for later. They hire people for later. Right now, most of them aren’t doing any of that, just as was the case during the Depression. And it’s quite possible that was the very worst thing about the Depression.

I lived through the late 70s/early 80s recession, and in some ways it was worse than this. But even then, people truly had the belief that it would turn around, and it did. I don’t think most business people have any real belief that this one will, at least not until the Washington radicals are gone.

And, as the far left keeps building dependent constituencies with the people it has impoverished, there’s skepticism about whether the radicals will ever be driven out.
So, nobody moves.

If you talk to a community banker, you’ll learn that businesses and farmers are only borrowing for very short-term things they know they can pay back very soon. That’s hard on banks and they hate it. But if you were a businessman, would you risk a big financing when you think maybe the government overspending will result in 20% interest rates in 2016? No, you wouldn’t.

I don’t look for this to end anytime soon at all, unless Obama loses in 2012.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Except, of course, that tires are made of petroleum, so we will need to simply inflate the air around the bare rims. 😉

I don’t look for this to end anytime soon at all, unless Obama loses in 2012.
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My tires are made from recycled bubble gum.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Except, of course, that tires are made of petroleum, so we will need to simply inflate the air around the bare rims. 😉

I don’t think we know how many people gave up looking for work during the Depression, so I don’t know that we can really compare Depression era unemployment with current unemployment, quite.

But for absolute sure, this economy is not creating jobs. That doesn’t have anything to do with housing. What it has to do with is fear on the part of employers and potential employers who can’t “pay to play”, and it’s multifaceted. Fear of high interest rates due to overspending, fear of higher energy costs which Obama promised, fear of higher insurance costs which is already coming true, fear of higher taxes, fear of aggressive and “innovative” regulation which is coming true, and just general fear of the radicals who run the government nowadays. Nobody knows what they will do next, but small employers know this administration means them no good. And they doubt Obama has forgotten about “card check” either. Will it, like Dracula, rise again in 2015? Maybe. If Boeing can’t build a factory in South Carolina without being attacked by the government, then who is safe from it?

But it’s more than jobs. Talking to people who lived through the Depression, I learned that a big part of it was that people, particularly business people, just hunkered down, dealt with the business level they knew was reliably there, and did nothing forward-looking. I have talked to a lot of business people and that’s their attitude right now. It’s normal for businesses to be “forward looking”. They buy things for later. They build things for later. They hire people for later. Right now, most of them aren’t doing any of that, just as was the case during the Depression. And it’s quite possible that was the very worst thing about the Depression.

I lived through the late 70s/early 80s recession, and in some ways it was worse than this. But even then, people truly had the belief that it would turn around, and it did. I don’t think most business people have any real belief that this one will, at least not until the Washington radicals are gone.

And, as the far left keeps building dependent constituencies with the people it has impoverished, there’s skepticism about whether the radicals will ever be driven out.
So, nobody moves.

If you talk to a community banker, you’ll learn that businesses and farmers are only borrowing for very short-term things they know they can pay back very soon. That’s hard on banks and they hate it. But if you were a businessman, would you risk a big financing when you think maybe the government overspending will result in 20% interest rates in 2016? No, you wouldn’t.

I don’t look for this to end anytime soon at all, unless Obama loses in 2012.
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Everytime I read a post like yours, I wonder which country you grew up in, and whether you’ve even superficially ever studied American history?

You say you lived through the 70’s and 80’s right? Do you happen to recall the federal upper bracket taxrates then as compared to now? How about the 50’s and 60’s during active wars?

And before you give some fictitious rightwing nonsense answer, please check your facts and then document your assertions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

No I didn’t vote for Obama, because I knew he’d be too much like Bush on the important matters. I voted my conscience and wrote in Ron Paul’s name for prez.

jomoco
 
Nec5 said:
Protip: Please don’t suggest that others check their facts and then cite Wikipedia. Please. Your case might be 100% correct, but Wikipedia does not lend it credibility.
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I’d suggest that if you think that Wikipedia article is incorrect, then you need to enter a correction. That can by done, and most Wikipedia articles I’ve seen are pretty good.

I’m 50 years old, and I lived through the late 70’s and 80’s. Things weren’t as bad then for a couple of reasons.

The first is that we still had a sizable manufacturing base. We had to scale back production, but for a lot of stuff, we were the manufacturing giant to contend with. Thirty years later, our manufacturing base is gutted. It went overseas leaving basically a service economy that supports fewer and fewer people.

The second, is that there was a clear goal to fixing many of the problems. The Vietnam war had ended and the debt needed to be paid down—got that done. The oil crisis hit, showing us that oil could get scarce, and we would need to go to smaller, more fuel efficient cars—got that done too.

Today, that solution isn’t there. If we don’t spend, but instead save, we really stall the economy. If we go farther into debt to spend, sooner or later we (as individuals) go bankrupt; or the government goes into default or hyper-inflation through the printing of money. Either one is not an easy situation to live through.

Did you realize that the stock market, and much of the financial ‘good news’ is all based on the Fed., and banks authorized by them to spend funds created by them, to buy Treasuries? It was called QE2, and amount to some 650 billion and it ends this month. Guess the percentage of T-Bills bought freely and willingly on the open market? Around 12%. What do you think is going to happen if Congress both raises the debt ceiling, and then tries to finance the debt with debt offerings where only 12% is purchased??

What then? Why, interest rates rise. Greece is a good example, where they are offereing 16% interest rates to attract investors to invest in their debt. And, even that isn’t working as they are on the brink of default.

But they will get bailed out…why? Because behind all of this (and unlike the 70’s) are very powerful banking cartels that demand it. It didn’t get reported in the mainstream American media, but the Free Internet Press and other European sources, say that the Germans didn’t want to participate in any further bailout. The banks behind the Greek loans said that if Germany failed to participate, they wouldn’t loan Greece the money; Greece would default and Germany would lose every penny that they previously loaned to Greece. Germany caved in to this financial blackmail and agreed to participate.

Here, go read for yourself:
Code: 
http://freeinternetpress.com/story/HardLine-IMF-Forced-Germany-To-Guarantee-Greek-Bailout-30675.html
 
loneviking said:
The banks behind the Greek loans said that if Germany failed to participate, they wouldn’t loan Greece the money; Greece would default and Germany would lose every penny that they previously loaned to Greece. Germany caved in to this financial blackmail and agreed to participate.

Here, go read for yourself:
Code: 
http://freeinternetpress.com/story/HardLine-IMF-Forced-Germany-To-Guarantee-Greek-Bailout-30675.html
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The old saying, “When you owe the bank a one hundred thousand you have a problem, when you owe the bank a million dollars the bank has a problem” comes to mind.

When Greece fails the Europian banking system fails along with it, if not immediately it will fail after Portugal and Ireland follow. There is no solution in Greece or for many of the European nations, they continue to spend money they don’t have hoping “something” happens before the next round of loans needs to be made. Round three happens later this summer - will the Germans cave a second time?
 
SamH said:
The old saying, “When you owe the bank a one hundred thousand you have a problem, when you owe the bank a million dollars the bank has a problem” comes to mind.

When Greece fails the Europian banking system fails along with it, if not immediately it will fail after Portugal and Ireland follow. There is no solution in Greece or for many of the European nations, they continue to spend money they don’t have hoping “something” happens before the next round of loans needs to be made. Round three happens later this summer - will the Germans cave a second time?
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Actually, that will be a third time for them to cave in and yes, they will. The bankers have a noose around everyones neck and street demonstrations are just a minor nuisance for them.
 
loneviking said:
Actually, that will be a third time for them to cave in and yes, they will. The bankers have a noose around everyones neck and street demonstrations are just a minor nuisance for them.
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I wonder if these bankers realize that a mob of people with no hope is very, very dangerous. Just ask Louis XVI or Marie Antoinette.
 
Nec5 said:
Silence, citizen. You should be thankful we are giving you medical care at all. Thank you for your cooperation. Be well.😦
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Thank God I don’t one of those profanity monitors in my house…

“You have been fined 1 credit for violation of the verbal morality statute”
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I wonder if these bankers realize that a mob of people with no hope is very, very dangerous. Just ask Louis XVI or Marie Antoinette.
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Maybe not. Depends on a lot of factors. Lots of angry mobs in the streets of Greece—no change. Angry mobs on the street in Iran—no change. Angry mobs on the steets in Spain–no change. The only mobs on the streets that seemed to work was Greenland.

Angry mobs in Libya, there was change but at gunpoint.
Angry mobs in Syria, not much change yet, but lots of dead people.

My guess is that that politicians should be VERY worried at the lack of Americans in the street. A lot of Americans that have been hurt by the downturn are older, many middle aged, quite a few with combat experience. If these folks don’t think demonstrations will work, what do you imagine they think will?
 
loneviking said:
Maybe not. Depends on a lot of factors. Lots of angry mobs in the streets of Greece—no change. Angry mobs on the street in Iran—no change. Angry mobs on the steets in Spain–no change. The only mobs on the streets that seemed to work was Greenland.

Angry mobs in Libya, there was change but at gunpoint.
Angry mobs in Syria, not much change yet, but lots of dead people.

My guess is that that politicians should be VERY worried at the lack of Americans in the street. A lot of Americans that have been hurt by the downturn are older, many middle aged, quite a few with combat experience. If these folks don’t think demonstrations will work, what do you imagine they think will?
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Most people are under the delusion that voting changes anything.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Most people are under the delusion that voting changes anything.
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I know of more and more people who are coming to understand that that this is a delusion. And that is what makes this time in our country very dangerous.
 
It’s worse … and getting even “more worse by the minute”:

lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=623503

Obama’s EPA Attacks Boilers,
Affecting Millions of US Jobs

Human Events, by Jim Hoft

Original Article

humanevents.com/article.php?id=44461

Posted 6/26/2011 3:47:16 PM

Thousands of power plants, manufacturing plants, paper mills, refineries, chemical plants, schools and hospitals use boilers at their facilities. Literally millions of jobs rely on affordable energy from these facilities, and those jobs are put at risk if those boilers can no longer be installed and run in a cost effective manner. (Snip) The Environmental Protection Agency said Friday it would delay issuing final regulations aimed at cutting pollution from factory boilers until April 2012, amid pressure from industry groups and lawmakers. The EPA decision came just days after a top EPA official publicly touted the health and economic benefits

Comments:
If you really want to save America money turn off the EPA, not these boilers. The EPA and leftist judges believe that we must make the outgoing air even cleaner than what comes in.

Post Reply
Reply 1 -
Obama is not an idiot. The frequency of these occurences lead me to believe he has an agends.

Obama wants to see America destroyed.

Vote accordingly.

Reply 2 -
These people have too much time on their hands. They want to control every aspect of our lives. Some are decrying how much energy small appliances like toasters and hand mixers use!

Reply 3 -
With fear of offending this blogging site the EPA has already put thousands of workers out of their jobs. If this is goading so be it. Civility I understand. Stating facts is not provoking. It is stating your position with passion. Otherwise what is Sunday dinner or a trip to the Internet good for?

Reply 4 -
Get rid of the EPA first. Then decide what to do next.

Reply 5 -
Obama knows Cap and Trade would not pass so he uses executive power of EPA to end run congress. In his mind he is a king authoritarian ruler.

Reply 6 -
Within thirty days after the next election when a conservative is in office, the repeal of obamacare, and then the elimination of the EPA should soon follow. More damage has been done in the name of enviromental protection to this country, then all the communist military hardware ever built could possibly cause.

Reply 7 -
Yes, Our Dictator said without the House Vote he would use Regulations to destroy the economy. I see he is waiting until after this winter so home owners won’t really understand how financially bad it is for us before his minions can try voting him into office again. This man is evil.

Reply 8 -
Extremely stringent boiler standards (Maximum Available Control Technologies, MACT) went into effect a few years ago. Now there’s more?

Reply 9 -
FTA: [quoting the WSJ] The EPA decision came just days after a top EPA official publicly touted the health and economic benefits of a separate but similar rule to control mercury emissions from aging coal-fired power plants.

But they’re requiring us to put mercury-leaking CFLs in every room of our homes!

Have you had enough?

Reply 10 -
You bring in a crew of single-purposed zealots with the powers to regulate;they will regulate you right back to the Luddite Era of the Industrial revolution!

Reply 11 -
All part of Obama’s War on America.

The Left hates America, they hate our prosperity, they hate business, they hate consumers, they hate profit, they hate freedom, they hate choice (except in the case of abortion), they hate our ability to manufacture and purchase goods and services, they hate our plentiful, affordable food, and they are going to bring it all to an end through the imposition of unbearable energy costs.

Only by artificially forcing energy prices to “skyrocket” can they strangle our business and industry, slow our consumption of goods and services, disrupt our freedom to travel (in the name of the environment), and force us to spend every last dime simply acquiring basic food staples.

This is their goal, and they are achieving it.

The American Left wants to bring the United States to her knees, through any means necessary.

These are the most hateful, stupid, irrational people on the face of the planet. They won’t be satisfied until we’re all starving under a Soviet-style Marxist dictatorship.

Reply 12 -
There must be 2 America’s. One that supports the EPA, and the real America that knows the EPA is destroying America. Recently Rasmussen reported that 47% of Americans think the EPA is doing a good job. What are Americans thinking, or aren’t they?

Reply 13 -
Well I guess that eliminates Romney. He believes in all of this garbage. Time to look into his investment portfolio.

Reply 14 -
More work for the Boilermakers Union

Reply 15 -
Our government is soo messed up. Our local school needed to replace their natural gas boiler. They were able to receive some stimulus money to replace it with a wood chip boiler.

Reply 16 -
Wood chip boiler? Where are the greenies crying over trees being used for fuel? Going from natural gas to wood is asinine.

Reply 17 -
There is no alternative to boilers. Wind and solar power is for retards. There is no substitute for the boilers we have today.
 
Reply 18:

You get the government you deserve, not the one you want.
 
Nec5 said:
At this point, does anyone still believe the government numbers about unemployment? Scratch that. Does anyone still believe any of the government numbers about anything or anyone?

Real unemployment is closer to 20%. With the bailouts, the elites took care of their brethren and left everyone else to twist in the wind, yet there are still people that believe that an election and working within the system will solve things.
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I think you’re the only person surprised by this. The real unemployment is always higher then the official unemployment, because I believe the official unemployment figure takes into account people looking for jobs. I learned this is 1st year introduction to Econ, it’s no secret.
Monte_RCMS said:
… because you have to rely on blogs to get the news of how the Obama Administration is actively working to shut down the economy.

In this case, the energy sector … up in the North Dakota region …

a must read and pass it along:

powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/05/029093.php
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Keystone XL really needs to move forward. It’s a win-win for Canada and the US: we sell you crude oil and you refine it.
Ridgerunner said:
If you talk to a community banker, you’ll learn that businesses and farmers are only borrowing for very short-term things they know they can pay back very soon. That’s hard on banks and they hate it. But if you were a businessman, would you risk a big financing when you think maybe the government overspending will result in 20% interest rates in 2016? No, you wouldn’t.
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There are some who are making big deals. Atlantic Power just increased the number of power plants they own by over 100% in a $1 billion+ deal.

I’m thinking that in the long-term, unemployment should naturally become less of an issue. Baby-boomers have to retire eventually, or pass on from this life. Give it about, oh, 30 years and we’ll have a massive shortage of qualified workers due to less people and too many liberal arts degrees. We’re still short on trades here in Canada, it’s just a pain trying to get people to go into trades.
 
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