Why the Left Hates American Sniper

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I am half-Russian, Jharek. Those were my relatives, too. I do not insult the Russian people, but I certainly insult the Soviet system, which was responsible for the abominable planning and conduct of the war.

The conduct of war involves many elements, both diplomatic, strategic, economic, logistic, as well as tactical. Individual bravery by the common soldier is of little value if led by idiots supporting a morally bankrupt regime. That most of Stalin’s best officers were freezing to death in the Siberian death camps of Kolyma instead of leading the defense of their nation was the direct responsibility of that corrupt and godless system.

Many Russians also were fighting for what they saw as the survival of their national culture, not International Communism, not the Party, and certainly not Stalin. Stalin himself famously went on a week-long alcoholic binge after Operation Barabarossa, as he thought that the jig was up and the entire USSR was about to collapse and the Nazis would be triumphant. He was surprised as anyone at the resistance the Nazis faced after their initial success, and that small-unit actions by Red Army forces, acting independently and with little direction from the Soviet command (who were in complete disarray and panic) managed to hold the line of advance long enough to regroup. Only then were his cronies able to rouse him out of his drunken stupor. It is not by accident that Stalin authorized the use of explicitly nationalistic, Russian propaganda (such as the film “Aleksandr Nevsky”) during the war years (and only the war years), as he recognized that Russian nationalism was a far stronger motivator than the Party.

The war was won despite the Soviet system, not because of it.
 
Arizona_Mike said:
I think every film that touches on political matters (and war is inherently political) is propaganda, if we define propaganda as a work that promotes a particular political point of view. . .

snip

All art is propaganda.
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Well said 👍
 
I saw the movie and liked it. It was about a soldier. Clint Eastwood did a great job and so did Bradley Cooper. This soldier took his job seriously and the lives of his fellow soldiers seriously. War changes people. They are not the same when they come back.
 
I just saw “Lone Survivor” on DVD, which was about the horrific battle in the mountains of Afghanistan between a 4-man SEAL team and Taliban forces, in which Chris Kyle’s friend Marcus Luttrelll (another Texan SEAL) was the only survivor. The effects of the firefight and the numerous high velocity wounds and injuries the participants suffered (including a scene where the SEALs tumble down the side of a mountain to escape from their pursuers, where the multiple impacts against rocks and trees made me cringe), as well as a lot of rough language would make this a hard movie to watch for sensitive or easily distressed viewers, but it captures well the bravery of the sailors and soldiers involved. (SPOILER ALERT FOLLOWS) That Luttrell was saved by Afghani villagers who protected him and took up arms against the Taliban to do so is fascinating. The pre-credits sequence depicting the real life photos and video of all the servicemen who lost their lives in the mission and in the attempt to rescue them, as well as a reunion between Luttrell and the Afghani who saved him, tends to make the eyes well up.

Highly recommended.
 
Arizona_Mike said:
I just saw “Lone Survivor” on DVD, which was about the horrific battle in the mountains of Afghanistan between a 4-man SEAL team and Taliban forces, in which Chris Kyle’s friend Marcus Luttrelll (another Texan SEAL) was the only survivor. The effects of the firefight and the numerous high velocity wounds and injuries the participants suffered (including a scene where the SEALs tumble down the side of a mountain to escape from their pursuers, where the multiple impacts against rocks and trees made me cringe), as well as a lot of rough language would make this a hard movie to watch for sensitive or easily distressed viewers, but it captures well the bravery of the sailors and soldiers involved. (SPOILER ALERT FOLLOWS) That Luttrell was saved by Afghani villagers who protected him and took up arms against the Taliban to do so is fascinating. The pre-credits sequence depicting the real life photos and video of all the servicemen who lost their lives in the mission and in the attempt to rescue them, as well as a reunion between Luttrell and the Afghani who saved him, tends to make the eyes well up.

Highly recommended.
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My son had rented that on DVD one evening. I saw maybe the last 45 minutes of the movie. It was good. The parts of the soldiers purposely falling down the sides of the cliffs on the rocks was very painful to watch. Your description was worthy of what our soldiers endure.
I was amazed at how the Afghan village fought to protect him.
I would recommend this movie also.
 
I used to live in the same Texas town {Odessa} that Kris Kyle came from. It and the trial of the man who killed him are getting a lot of attention from the local TV and press.

I have not seen the picture myself, since I have trouble negotiating the steps at the local theaters and I have Parkinson’s Disease. I will see it when it’s on DVD.
 
andrewstx said:
I used to live in the same Texas town {Odessa} that Kris Kyle came from. It and the trial of the man who killed him are getting a lot of attention from the local TV and press.

I have not seen the picture myself, since I have trouble negotiating the steps at the local theaters and I have Parkinson’s Disease. I will see it when it’s on DVD.
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It is worth seeing. Isn’t Odessa where Janis Joplin was from?
 
Arizona_Mike said:
I read McIntosh’s editorial on Salon. The “lies” he claims to have discovered are as follows:
  1. Cooper’s character was shown agonizing over shooting a child about to attack a U.S. military unit with a grenade. (This incident did not, in fact, happen as the movie showed it, and Kyle said in his book he never shot a child, but did shoot a woman in the incident.). McIntosh does not seem to have a problem with Eastwood’s addition of the child for dramatic impact, but because “Hall [the screenwriter] implies that killing civilians is a war crime and U.S. military members are sent to prison for it.”
Killing an unarmed non-combatant is a violation of the UCMJ and American servicemen have been sent to prison for it, in Iraq and Afghanistan. The incident shown in the book and in dramatically altered fashion in the movie shows people who were clearly NOT non-combatants.
  1. The film shows every person that Kyle shoots as armed or carrying an IED, but Kyle says in his book that he was told to shoot every military-aged male in Fallujjah, which had been ordered evacuated by the Iraqi government, and implies that Americans shot Iraqi civilians with murderous abandon.
Kyle also says in his book that he did not shoot anyone who was not armed, that he felt bad for the Iraqi civilians who were terrorized by the insurgents, and that he was investigated for shooting a man armed with a Kalashnikov rifle whose family later claimed that he was only carrying a Koran. Kyle was cleared in this incident, and it is not unknown for the families of terrorists and criminals who were killed by military or police to later insist they were not armed.
  1. McIntosh’s 3rd “lie” is rather unclear. He takes exception with scenes that show Kyle watching the attacks in Africa, which were one of several reasons he enlisted, and seeing the attacks on 9/11 after he was already a SEAL. Both incidents happened in the book and do not seem far-fetched. McIntosh is angry that there was no mention in the film or book that WMDs were the reason we invaded Iraq, as if that was the only reason advanced at the time, or that the belief that there were WMDs in Iraq (which clearly there were, at one time - those Iranians who died of mustard-gas exposure were probably not hypochondriacs) was not a bipartisan belief that was advanced by both Republicans or Democrats. Not sure why McIntosh thinks this was a “lie” in the movie, unless he is upset that the characters do not act or behave like he thinks conservatives should act or behave in a movie.
For that matter, the film does not show the murderous actions of Saddam Hussein and his sons, which were also advanced as a reason for the invasion. The film is not really about the causes or reasons for the war, but is a character study about one combatant.

I’ve read quite a few military autobiographies over the years, and many of them include similar elements as Kyle’s account - incident of savagery by the enemy, descriptions of the enemy using terms that are far less offensive than “savage,” acts of war that are usually brutal - why is this particular memoir so offensive to liberals? There are hundreds more, from WWII to now, that demonstrate that, yes, War is Hell.
  1. After Marc Lee’s funeral, the film depicts Kyle as telling his wife with a grim countenance that Lee “lost it” and that led to his death, and that Kyle never said those kind of things about Lee.
The film depicts this scene as an example of Kyle’s emotional hardening and increasing sense of isolation, and his wife is depicted in the film as hearing his statement with surprise. It is not depicted as an objective truth by the filmmakers, but more as another instance of the war’s effect on Kyle. It’s dramatic license to try to show character through dialogue, but that’s generally considered good screenwriting.

And that’s apparently it for the “lies” the film portrayed.There were a lot of other elements that were admittedly altered by the screenwriter, such as the Syrian ex-Olympics sniper who, although a real person, was not killed by Kyle and was not a major figure in the book. Changing elements around to create a more linear storyline happens in every film based on true events. (That’s why they say they were “based” on true events.)

To me, it just sounds more like an anti-war vet wanting to yell more about Bush and WMDs than a real look at how the movie dramatized elements from the book.
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Fine on-topic post. 👍
 
Mike_Dye said:
You know the old saying, “There is nothing new under the sun.”. It’s the same Michael Moore, Jane Fonda mentality that spit on and gave the finger to us us Viet-Nam vets when we came home, that whine about this movie…It doesn’t change a thing… soldiers will still go to war to protect innocent people and still come home and be spit on…never was a big deal then and is not now.
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Well said. Thank you for your service.
 
I had an acquaintance in high school from South East New Mexico where I am from, he got a job in a hotel in the Dallas area, he got a bullet in the face for that job, in a robbery. I left my home state of New Mexico because of bigotry that I try every day to remedy with justice despite being away from my family. On topic enough for everyone??

It’s little wonder Texas has had not only the death penalty and I’m not being critical, but also all of the 2nd Amendment supporters, the right to bear arms. One can continue on and on from this vantage point. I remember too, a fast food restaurant there, where it was robbed and everyone taken to the freezer by the robbers and the worse happened. I guess if we are talking about Texas, then we can talk about any of this. 7-Elevens were getting knocked over, at least it seemed that way about every night.
 
Path_Finder said:
I had an acquaintance in high school from South East New Mexico where I am from, he got a job in a hotel in the Dallas area, he got a bullet in the face for that job, in a robbery. I left my homestate because of bigotry that I try every day to remedy with justice despite being away from my family. On topic enough for everyone??
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On topic about what?
It’s little wonder Texas has had not only the death penalty and I’m not being critical, but also all of the 2nd Amendment supporters, the right to bear arms. One can continue on and on from this vantage point.
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I don’t understand what that has to do with the film American Sniper.

Peace

Tim
 
Path_Finder said:
It’s about Texas. You were talking about Texas. What’s the difference? 😃
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This thread isn’t about Texas. I was correcting a couple of posters regarding the birthplace of Janis Joplin.

Is it your contention that violent crime is worse in Texas than anywhere else? If not, again, what is the point of your post?

Peace

Tim
 
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