Why the Left Hates American Sniper

[Path_Finder]

This thread isn’t about Texas. I was correcting a couple of posters regarding the birthplace of Janis Joplin.

Is it your contention that violent crime is worse in Texas than anywhere else? If not, again, what is the point of your post?

Peace

Tim

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge other person’s motives, the gun culture of Texas is very well founded, better even today than say, 15 years ago. So in fact, it would be that same gun culture Chris Kyle grew up out of. That much is so.

So, in fact, it is very related to the topic. Many Texans will avow, “I’ve got a gun with me all the time”, it’s just fair to look at the other side as well. Why is it this way?

 

[Path_Finder]

This thread isn’t about Texas. I was correcting a couple of posters regarding the birthplace of Janis Joplin.

Is it your contention that violent crime is worse in Texas than anywhere else? If not, again, what is the point of your post?

Peace

Tim

Very compassionate when my friend gets shot in the face to say “what’s your point”, thank you.

 

[Orogeny]

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge other person’s motives, the gun culture of Texas is very well founded, better even today than say, 15 years ago. So in fact, it would be that same gun culture Chris Kyle grew up out of. That much is so.

So you don’t like American Sniper because Chris Kyle grew up in Texas?

So, in fact, it is very related to the topic. Many Texans will avow, “I’ve got a gun with me all the time”, it’s just fair to look at the other side as well. Why is it this way?

Well, I have lived in Texas my whole life and I have never owned an oil well, I hate horses and I don’t own a gun. I’ve been a city boy my whole life and have never lived on much less owned a ranch.

Stereotyping a group of people is not OK just because you are liberal. But I guess if one has to disregard or disparage a group of people because of the state they live in, any reason will do.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

Very compassionate when my friend gets shot in the face to say “what’s your point”, thank you.

Well, he could have stayed in Las Cruces.

lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-news/ci_27533481/two-men-arrested-fatal-double-shooting-saturday

Oh, wait, I thought violent crime only happens in gun crazy Texas! How in the world did someone get shot in another state? Impossible!!!

Peace

Tim

 

[Path_Finder]

In fact, if only “location” is what this thread is about, since Chris was born in Odessa, myself in Midland, since I lived in Dallas, not far from Midlothian where Chris Kyle was living, I guess I’ll put dibbs in for my (name removed by moderator)ut on the topic. These places are a lot more pertinent to the story than far away places like El Paso and so on.

 

[Path_Finder]

Chris’ good points turned out to lead to his sad death; that’s the way life is sometimes. He wanted to help out fellow veterans and I know he had a heart of gold and was a Christian. I respected life even with a very abusive woman in the workplace because she was expecting, I’m pro-life, I didn’t hassle her. That basically cost me my job in Albuquerque. So it goes. But Chris is definitely a brother from the Permian Basin.

 

[Path_Finder]

Well, he could have stayed in Las Cruces.

lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-news/ci_27533481/two-men-arrested-fatal-double-shooting-saturday

Oh, wait, I thought violent crime only happens in gun crazy Texas! How in the world did someone get shot in another state? Impossible!!!

Peace

Tim

Well, I’m not from Las Cruces, I was born in Midland Texas, I’ve lived in Dallas, any more assumptions you want to make?

Excuse me too, there is a reason the death penalty is in Texas, Louisiana, Florida and no deflections on your behalf is going to change that.

Besides, like New Mexico, Texas is a minority/majority state, like California too.

Anything more?

So, someone gets killed in a robbery and your answer is to post a clipping of a murder as well? Very sensitive!

All this good ol’ boy boastfulness about Texas goes on, one points out one thing, now its off topic and such person who says so is held up for ridicule, thank you very much.

 

[Orogeny]

Well, I’m not from Las Cruces, I was born in Midland Texas, I’ve lived in Dallas, any more assumptions you want to make?

You mean, like the assumption that you are consistent with your stories? YOU wrote “I had an acquaintance in high school from South East New Mexico where I am from” (emphasis mine). I don’t know why I would assume that you were from southeast New Mexico.

Excuse me too, there is a reason the death penalty is in Texas, Louisiana, Florida and no deflections on your behalf is going to change that.

??? What are you talking about? I said nothing about the death penalty.

Besides, like New Mexico, Texas is a minority/majority state, like California too.

Are you sure you are responding to my post that you quoted? What are you talking about???

Anything more?

Not unless you want to have a conversation about something that I wrote.

Peace

Tim

 

[Path_Finder]

This good ol’ boy boasting about the Lone Star State oh but can’t say one thing negative that is in fact, true about the state, it is better now but it’s had crime problems for awhile now and admittedly, a lot of that is due to its size. Just like when one hears about crimes in New York or California, those states have big populaces.

None the less, it is amply true.

In fact, Chris Kyle was murdered and his friend too at the shooting range.

 

[Avdima]

I find it quite poetic that a popular mass murderer like Chris Kyle gets killed almost the same way he murdered innocent people.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I find it quite poetic that a popular mass murderer like Chris Kyle gets killed almost the same way he murdered innocent people.

Calling Chris Kyle a murderer is like calling Mario Andretti a speeder. It’s inane.

 

[mikekle]

He was definitely proud of his country, but that does not necessarily mean the war he was fighting in was JUST…thats the key to whether soldiers are committing murder or killing in a war (thats what Ive heard anyway), the reasons for going to war MUST be just according to God, not the US…so I could see a scenario where they tell the soldiers and public one reason, but really, they have ulterior motives, they keep secret though.

Many times though, the soldiers themselves find this out after being deployed for so long, word gets around, kinda like how recently troops were saying the US has soldiers guarding the poppie fields in Afghanistan, they were making sure the heroin factories over there, stay up and running, I found that kind of depressing, but I doubt we will ever hear the real reason why the US does many of these things.

So, the real question is…was the war Kyle was fighting in, just or not?

 

[Arizona_Mike]

He was definitely proud of his country, but that does not necessarily mean the war he was fighting in was JUST…thats the key to whether soldiers are committing murder or killing in a war (thats what Ive heard anyway), the reasons for going to war MUST be just according to God, not the US…so I could see a scenario where they tell the soldiers and public one reason, but really, they have ulterior motives, they keep secret though.

Many times though, the soldiers themselves find this out after being deployed for so long, word gets around, kinda like how recently troops were saying the US has soldiers guarding the poppie fields in Afghanistan, they were making sure the heroin factories over there, stay up and running, I found that kind of depressing, but I doubt we will ever hear the real reason why the US does many of these things.

So, the real question is…was the war Kyle was fighting in, just or not?

Could you cite the Church teaching you claim shows that a war must be “just” for a killing by a soldier not to be considered felonious murder?

Who has the power to declare whether a war is “just” or not?

Was the Vietnam war “just,” or did you just declare every Vietnam veteran who fired a shot at the enemy to be a murderer?

Under the rules of engagement which bound Kyle, he could only shoot if someone represented an imminent threat to troops or civilians, e.g., if they were brandishing a weapon, grenade, etc. and were moving in the direction of friendly forces or civilians. The right to self-defense, as described in the Catechism, recognizes the right to use deadly force to prevent another being harmed, as well as oneself. Does one lose this right if an outside party (such as yourself) decides the war is not “just”?

 

[mikekle]

Could you cite the Church teaching you claim shows that a war must be “just” for a killing by a soldier not to be considered felonious murder?

Who has the power to declare whether a war is “just” or not?

Was the Vietnam war “just,” or did you just declare every Vietnam veteran who fired a shot at the enemy to be a murderer?

Under the rules of engagement which bound Kyle, he could only shoot if someone represented an imminent threat to troops or civilians, e.g., if they were brandishing a weapon, grenade, etc. and were moving in the direction of friendly forces or civilians. The right to self-defense, as described in the Catechism, recognizes the right to use deadly force to prevent another being harmed, as well as oneself. Does one lose this right if an outside party (such as yourself) decides the war is not “just”?

I never said I thought ANY war was just or not…thats not my decision to make, nor any of us, I think only God and the Vatican can decide whether a particular war is just or not, but to make this decision, they would have to know ALL the TRUE reasons involved for sending in troops, problem is this is kept secret from everyone and only high level military and Govt leaders know this.

Clearly WW2 was just, I think anyone would agree with that, there was a very imminent threat to everyone coming from Germany and Japan, but when it comes to other wars, its tough to make a guess, sure, they tell us its for this reason (terrorism, WMDs), but keep in mind, it was proven the WMD threat was not true, so what was the real reason…if it had to do with securing resources, or something along those lines, I have a feeling that would not be considered just in Gods eyes.

I found this…

** St. Thomas Aquinas laid out a more elaborate just war doctrine in his Summa Theologica. He wrote that three conditions were necessary to make a war just: it must be ordered by a competent authority; the cause must be just; and the combatants must have “a right intention, so that they intend the advancement of good, or the avoidance of evil.**

So, according to this, the only thing that may be ‘questionable’ in recent wars is the cause…just because our leaders tell us a reason for going to war, that does not mean, that is the TRUE reason, therein lies the problem.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I never said I thought ANY war was just or not…thats not my decision to make, nor any of us, I think only God and the Vatican can decide whether a particular war is just or not, but to make this decision, they would have to know ALL the TRUE reasons involved for sending in troops, problem is this is kept secret from everyone and only high level military and Govt leaders know this.

Clearly WW2 was just, I think anyone would agree with that, there was a very imminent threat to everyone coming from Germany and Japan, but when it comes to other wars, its tough to make a guess, sure, they tell us its for this reason (terrorism, WMDs), but keep in mind, it was proven the WMD threat was not true, so what was the real reason…if it had to do with securing resources, or something along those lines, I have a feeling that would not be considered just in Gods eyes.

I found this…

** St. Thomas Aquinas laid out a more elaborate just war doctrine in his Summa Theologica. He wrote that three conditions were necessary to make a war just: it must be ordered by a competent authority; the cause must be just; and the combatants must have “a right intention, so that they intend the advancement of good, or the avoidance of evil.**

So, according to this, the only thing that may be ‘questionable’ in recent wars is the cause…just because our leaders tell us a reason for going to war, that does not mean, that is the TRUE reason, therein lies the problem.

So if Chris Kyle was not involved in the decision making process to go to war, why did you call him a murderer?

 

[Arizona_Mike]

So if Chris Kyle was not involved in the decision making process to go to war, why did you call him a murderer?

My apologies, miklele - that was avdima who called him a murderer, not you.

But the question still stands. If he was fooled by both the Democrats (such as the Clintons, Pelosi, et al) and the Republicans (Bush, Cheney, etc.) who claimed there were WMDs in Iraq*, and honestly thought he was defending his country from terrorists who wanted to kill us (and it is inarguable that Saddam Hussein provided material aid and training to terrorist groups, such as the ANO), how does that make him a murderer?

• (And according to our best information, the FBI interrogator who was with Hussein for about a year, Hussein stated that he wanted to make the U.S. believe he had a WMD capability - he did not think we would invade but thought that Israel would, and believed that if U.S. intelligence believed that he had a WMD capacity, Israeli intelligence would as well. He fed false information through double agents, created false labs to fool satellite intel, etc…while maintaining an ability to quickly create WMD as necessary. Saddam’s great error was in convincing our intel agencies a little too well, and in not thinking that the U.S. would invade based on that false intel.

 

[mikekle]

My apologies, miklele - that was avdima who called him a murderer, not you.

But the question still stands. If he was fooled by both the Democrats (such as the Clintons, Pelosi, et al) and the Republicans (Bush, Cheney, etc.) who claimed there were WMDs in Iraq*, and honestly thought he was defending his country from terrorists who wanted to kill us (and it is inarguable that Saddam Hussein provided material aid and training to terrorist groups, such as the ANO), how does that make him a murderer?

• (And according to our best information, the FBI interrogator who was with Hussein for about a year, Hussein stated that he wanted to make the U.S. believe he had a WMD capability - he did not think we would invade but thought that Israel would, and believed that if U.S. intelligence believed that he had a WMD capacity, Israeli intelligence would as well. He fed false information through double agents, created false labs to fool satellite intel, etc…while maintaining an ability to quickly create WMD as necessary. Saddam’s great error was in convincing our intel agencies a little too well, and in not thinking that the U.S. would invade based on that false intel.

Well,yeah, Im in NO position to say whether any war is just or not…I think the real question is, Is God going to hold individual soldiers responsible for killings that took place in a war that was not actually justified, as in the reasons they were given were false or not entirely true, IDK, thats a tough one, on one hand how can a soldier know if the Govt keeps the real reason secret, but as Ive heard from some soldiers, usually they find out pretty quick once deployed what the ‘real’ reasons are for them being there, so…??

Furthermore, Im not sure how God would feel about us going in (for whatever reasons) and then sort of taking advantage of certain situations, like securing resources, manipulating control of the illegal drug market (troops protecting Afghan poppie fields/production plants), The CIA was involved in this sort of thing in the past, so its possible they are still involved, but to what degree would the individual soldier be held responsible is up in the air, they have no authority to say what goes on.

 

[Caldera599]

Chris Kyle was a liar and psychopath who enjoyed killing and said he’d do it again. The fact that people are openly admiring him fills me with disgust. The real tragedy of his death is that he may not have repented of his sins.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Wasn’t much choice with Afghanistan, and Iraq seems too have been an intelligence blunder.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

I think your covering several subject at the one time,
I saw American Sniper and thought it was a Excellent story in every regard,
It is a story confronting Evil , and Evil Must be confronted , for if Evil is not taken head on,
It will over run you surely ,
If there is some person or Group that protest the real life action to prevent evil head on,.
Then they surely live in a world of Fancy