Why the obsession with 10 commandments?

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Why do Christians (including Catholics) care so much about the 10 commandments? Why should non-Jews care about any of the 613 Mitzvot? Shouldn’t the concern for non-Jews, according to the Tanakh, be the Seven Laws of Noah? If Catholics are not going to follow all of God’s Mitzvot, should they be picking and choosing in a manner not given by God?

 

[yinekka]

You obviously have an opinion on these matters, why not tell us why you think that the concern for non-Jews, according to the Tanakh, be the Seven Laws of Noah?

Perhaps you could also define the terms Mitzvot? and tanakh

Perhaps Christians care for the 10 Commandments because Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 *Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. *

The Decalogue reflects the Natural Law which is written on every man’s heart.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Perhaps you could also define the terms Mitzvot? and tanakh

Mitzot = commandments
Tanakh = Torah, Nevi’im, and Ketuvim

Perhaps Christians care for the 10 Commandments because Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

So why reject other parts of the 613 Mitzvot? Why not follow all of God’s commandments? Why pick and choose?

Why not follow the Seven Laws of Noah which where given to all of mankind, where the 613 Mitzot (including the 10 commandments) where given to the Jews?

 

[Rawb]

I’ve heard it explained that those are the most general, encompassing a wide area of topics, and many of them include the others.

The reason why Jews and Catholics chose for there to be 10 is simply because it was a simple way of remembering when trying to help illiterate (sp?) layity grow in their faith (or so the same show went on to explain. I’m sorry though, I do not recall the name of the show).

 

[1ke]

Why do Christians (including Catholics) care so much about the 10 commandments?

The Ten Commandments form the Divine Law, which Jesus specifically reaffirmed in his teachings.

Why should non-Jews care about any of the 613 Mitzvot?

The 613 “laws” are ceremonial or ritual laws, which indeed Christians do not follow (see Acts 15). Christ founded the Church, led her into all truth, and gave us the Bishops to infallibly teach for all time. They cleared this up in the first century.

Shouldn’t the concern for non-Jews, according to the Tanakh, be the Seven Laws of Noah?

I suppose if the Christian scriptures were limited to the Torah, you might have an argument.

If Catholics are not going to follow all of God’s Mitzvot, should they be picking and choosing in a manner not given by God?

The crux of the difference between Christians and Jews. You believe Christians follow in a “manner not given by God” and Christians of course disagree. We certainly do follow the Commandments given by God-- Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity.

 

[Hellisreal]

The only thing Christ added to the law was himself.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

The Ten Commandments form the Divine Law, which Jesus specifically reaffirmed in his teachings.

No, they are the Divine Law. They are not even a part of the law. They are not commandments (mitzvot). They are Aseret ha-D’varim (see Ex. 34:28, Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 10:4).

Since Jesus specifically reaffirmed the law, why not follow the law which are the 613 Mitzot not the Aseret ha-D’varim?

The 613 “laws” are ceremonial or ritual laws, which indeed Christians do not follow (see Acts 15).

The 613 Mitzot and the Seven Laws of Noah are the only commandments in the Tanakh. And they are not just ceremonial or ritual laws.

Please tell me what ceremony or ritual the each of 613 Mitzot relate to? Many of them have nothing to do with ceremonies or rituals.

jewfaq.org/613.htm

 

[Hellisreal]

As I said, All Christ did was add himself to the law.

Objections?

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

As I said, All Christ did was add himself to the law.

Objections?

So why don’t Christians follow all the law? They do they pick and choose? And why do they make such a big deal of the Ten Commandments which are not part of the law (not even really commandments)?

 

[pyropam]

Not sure what 613 you are referring to… Could one of them have something to do with the sacraficing of lambs??? Christians don’t need to do that…

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Not sure what 613 you are referring to… Could one of them have something to do with the sacraficing of lambs??? Christians don’t need to do that…

I posted the whole list. Here it is again:

jewfaq.org/613.htm

And Jews do not observe the Mitvzot related to Temple sacrifices because they cannot. They would in the future if it become possible.

 

[Leopard]

…If Catholics are not going to follow all of God’s Mitzvot, should they be picking and choosing in a manner not given by God?

Here is where you are mistaken. Jesus is God and has established His Church with the authority to teach and govern. Through his Church, God has affirmed that certain commandments under the Torah are still binding, most notably the Decalogue, whose general principles include many other specific commandments which Jews may consider to be separate mitzot. Certain other commandments, such as laws forbiding incestuous marriages are also still in force while others such as kosher dietary laws have been abrogated.

 

[cyberjacques]

The answer to this is really quite simple. The ten commandments were dictated by God Himself. There were also a hefty number of additional commandments that God dictated, such as the laws regarding marriage and dietary restrictions, but the 613 Mitzvot arose as a result of overanalysis of those commandments and paranoia on the part of the Jews (no offense). They were afraid that if they didn’t follow the commandments PERFECTLY that God would punish them as He had done for their previous bouts of sin. They are man-made laws that are merely based, and often loosely, on the actual ten commandments. Jesus himself seems to have spent a great deal of time reminding people of this, which is the main reason that so many of the Jewish authorities were furious with him. Jesus specifically nullified those commandments that humanity had outgrown, such as the prescription for divorce and the dietary restrictions, and left the rest intact. The Jews had already figured out that it wasn’t humanly possible to follow those laws perfectly, and yet the authorities kept insisting that they must. Jesus introduced us to the concept that God does not demand perfect obedience from an imperfect people. He simply demands that we try.

 

[bobzills]

So why reject other parts of the 613 Mitzvot? Why not follow all of God’s commandments? Why pick and choose?

In reading through the 613 Mitzvot at: jewfaq.org/613.htm
it is clear that Catholics will observe many, but not all of these Mitzvot. For example, number 56: Not to intermarry with gentiles. Now I don;t see how a Catholic could be expected to observe that one.

 

[bobzills]

So why don’t Christians follow all the law? They do they pick and choose?

Like I said, Catholics do in fact observe many of the 613 mitzvot. It is only correct and just that Catholics do observe them. For example, numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, 26,27,28,29,30,31,32…and many more down the line.
However, there are some which our priests would not require for us to observe, such as for example number 56: Not to intermarry with gentiles. Would you say that it is reasonable or not to have Catholics observe this Mitzvot #56 ?

 

[bobzills]

So why reject other parts of the 613 Mitzvot? Why not follow all of God’s commandments? Why pick and choose?

Please keep in mind that there are many, many of the 613 which are reasonable and right for Catholics to observe.
Do Jews follow all 613 Mitzvots? i don’t think so. So why condemn Catholics if they do not follow all 613 Mitzvots.
For example, there is a Mitzvot: #366:That a woman should not wear men’s clothing (Deut. 22:5) (CCN178). Yet, I see Jewish women wearing pants all the time. If Jews themselves pick and choose from the 613 Mitzvots which ones they are going to obey, then why is it not only reasonable for Catholics to also pick and choose which ones they will obey.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Please keep in mind that there are many, many of the 613 which are reasonable and right for Catholics to observe.
Do Jews follow all 613 Mitzvots? i don’t think so. So why condemn Catholics if they do not follow all 613 Mitzvots.
For example, there is a Mitzvot: #366:That a woman should not wear men’s clothing (Deut. 22:5) (CCN178). Yet, I see Jewish women wearing pants all the time.

When was the last time you saw an observant Jewish woman wearing man’s pants (not woman’s pants)?

 

[bobzills]

When was the last time you saw an observant Jewish woman wearing man’s pants (not woman’s pants)?

In general, I wouldn’t know whether or not a Jewish lady is observant. But I have seen Jewish ladies wearing pants all the time. At the university here there is a setup in a building for religion and there are offices for the Catholic priest, for the Protestant clergy for an Eastern Orthodox Christian priest, and there is a Jewish office area also. On occasion, i visited the Jewish area and asked a question or two and a lady wearing pants had answered the question. I didn’t know who she was until later, when there was a university festival of some sort and various speakers came to the podium and gave some short speeches. She was introduced as some sort of Jewish clergy person, I think it was rabbi. I had always thought that rabbis were men, but anyway, I would guess that she was observant, since she represented the Jewish center. The following is from:
users.aol.com/judaism/ask/archives/qh012.htm
Note: this is from a Jewish site:
“There is also an explicit biblical commandment against cross-dressing, and **many communities consider pants to be an example of “that which appurtaineth to a man”. **”
So Jewish women do not observe all 613 Mitzvots, so why should Catholics observe each and every one. Of course, there are many which Catholics have to obey under pain of sin.
Anyway, you have not said why Mitzvot number 56: Not to intermarry with gentiles can be in any way appropriate for Catholics. So there are some of the 613 which are appropriate for Catholics and my understanding of Catholicism is that we are seriously bound to follow those. However, there are others which are not so appropriate for Catholics such as #56 and we don’t have to follow these. If you really need it, I can try my best to list for you the mitzvots that Catholics should be obeying. But most likely you can figure it out for yourself.
Thank you kindly.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

“There is also an explicit biblical commandment against cross-dressing, and **many communities consider pants to be an example of “that which appurtaineth to a man”. **”
So Jewish women do not observe all 613 Mitzvots, so why should Catholics observe each and every one.

It only says that many communities, not even most. The woman probably belongs to a community that does not see wearing woman’s pants as a violation. What you talking about is having a different interpretation of how that one of the mitzvot is to be followed, not whether it should be followed.

And mitzvot is plural. Mitzvah is the singular.

Anyway, you have not said why Mitzvot number 56: Not to intermarry with gentiles can be in any way appropriate for Catholics. So there are some of the 613 which are appropriate for Catholics and my understanding of Catholicism is that we are seriously bound to follow those. However, there are others which are not so appropriate for Catholics such as #56 and we don’t have to follow these. If you really need it, I can try my best to list for you the mitzvots that Catholics should be obeying. But most likely you can figure it out for yourself.
Thank you kindly.

I don’t think that non-Jews should be required to follow any of the 613. By the text of the Tanakh they are only required to follow the Seven Laws of Moses.

But for some reason that I do not understand, Christians pick and choose parts of the 613 to follow and at the same time treat the Aseret ha-D’varim (see Ex. 34:28, Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 10:4) as mitzvot when they are not.

 

[1ke]

But for some reason that I do not understand, Christians pick and choose parts of the 613 to follow and at the same time treat the Aseret ha-D’varim (see Ex. 34:28, Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 10:4) as mitzvot when they are not.

The reason is simple:

Jesus, who is God, infallibly taught his Apostles what God’s Divine Law contains and what is ceremonial law. Jesus then formed his Church on the Apostles, gave them the power to bind and loose, and taught them all things necessary for Salvation.

Being God, he could do that.

Being infallibly protected from error, the Catholic Church teaching on the divine law, the moral law, and disciplinary laws (canon law) are binding on Christians.

As I referenced earlier, Acts 15 clearly shows the Apostles exercising their authority to bind and loose. They cleared up the misunderstanding among the first Christians, who came from a Jewish background.

What you perceive as arbitrary is not, it is a fundamental piece of the Christian faith.