Why the rejection of a hell now?

[Mikefitzgerald]

There can be no expression of love without free will. Love has an opposite therefore to have an expression of love there is also expression of hate. The angels and mankind manifest this dicotomy through free will.

Sorry,Vico, didn’t see your reply directed at me.(I’m new, still finding my way around this forum ).Yes, the angels, now there’s an interesting group. Created by God and immediately pitchforked into heaven. Wow! what a deal, No “suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune” Shakespeare. No having doubts, fears, hangups, no trying to figure out the convoluted conundrum of life and the catholic faith ( I was born into the catholic faith). I want that deal. Yes I admit I’m a card-carrying-coward And why not, the angels got it ( they must have a great union). Sorry if I sound facetious, it’s not intentional.

 

[steve_b]

On another web site I go to there are so many people in the Christianity forum that say there is no hell and if there is one, no one goes there. All are saved.

Where has that idea come from? One man even said he had a mental breakdown when he couldn’t bear the thought of people going to hell forever. He was mentally ill for 12 years than found a minister who taught him better and he is well now.

They have even quoted Pope Francis on Christ redeeming everyone as proof everyone is saved and going to heaven. Of course, the Protestants do not understand redemption and salvation so they think the Pope is saying we are all home free.

They even say those who talk about hell are mean and just think that way because they want others to go there and they will be in heaven proving they were the righteous ones while all those others belonged in hell. Quite a cynical idea but that is their take on it.

One would have to ask, If everyone goes to heaven, why all the warnings in scripture about actions that lead one to hell? Jesus taught more on hell than anyone.

 

[oneofmany]

Sorry,Vico, didn’t see your reply directed at me.(I’m new, still finding my way around this forum ).Yes, the angels, now there’s an interesting group. Created by God and immediately pitchforked into heaven. Wow! what a deal, No “suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune” Shakespeare. No having doubts, fears, hangups, no trying to figure out the convoluted conundrum of life and the catholic faith ( I was born into the catholic faith). I want that deal. Yes I admit I’m a card-carrying-coward And why not, the angels got it ( they must have a great union). Sorry if I sound facetious, it’s not intentional.

The angels didn’t get a free home run. They had free will but only once. Some chose to follow God, some didn’t, and those angels were thrown out of heaven. As for your other questions, I think we will never know the answer to it until we can ask God. But as God told poor Job, “where were you when I was creating the heaven and earth?” We don’t have the mind of God so we will just need to trust Him.

 

[Mikefitzgerald]

The angels didn’t get a free home run. They had free will but only once. Some chose to follow God, some didn’t, and those angels were thrown out of heaven. As for your other questions, I think we will never know the answer to it until we can ask God. But as God told poor Job, “where were you when I was creating the heaven and earth?” We don’t have the mind of God so we will just need to trust Him.

Hi thanks again, here, you’ve put a few points in a nutshell which have puzzled me for ages. Quote "the angels didn’t get a free home run “Yes I remember from my first cathecism (about sixty five years ago) Lucifer rebelled against God. He(Lucifer) was a perfect being. Why did he rebel, what would it profit him, “his cup was full” Would he have a bigger car or house, and his followers would only be exchanging bosses. I think the bad angels blew it. I would have settled for staying with God, it was still a fantastic deal. Quote " I think we will never know the answer to it until we can ask God. We don’t have the mind of God “Exactly, the thing is, If we don’t know the mind of God we really know nothing, everything. else is conjecture.” Until we can ask God”, do you mean when we die. Too late. I’ve been asking god for ages. Still waiting for an answer from Him. Don’t get the Job bit, must look it up.

 

[Mikefitzgerald]

Hi thanks again, here, you’ve put a few points in a nutshell which have puzzled me for ages. Quote "the angels didn’t get a free home run “Yes I remember from my first cathecism (about sixty five years ago) Lucifer rebelled against God. He(Lucifer) was a perfect being. Why did he rebel, what would it profit him, “his cup was full” Would he have a bigger car or house, and his followers would only be exchanging bosses. I think the bad angels blew it. I would have settled for staying with God, it was still a fantastic deal. Quote " I think we will never know the answer to it until we can ask God. We don’t have the mind of God “Exactly, the thing is, If we don’t know the mind of God we really know nothing, everything. else is conjecture.” Until we can ask God”, do you mean when we die. Too late. I’ve been asking god for ages. Still waiting for an answer from Him. Don’t get the Job bit, must look it up.

hi Clem couldn’t wait to get back to you, forget everything I said. I looked up Job, not in the bible ( its too heavy for me) but on the net, it’s at this site sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section11.rhtml. I was amazed, I’m just like Job. It’s so absorbing, I must print it and study it. The God of the OT is intriguing but so frightening. I think I’ll get myself off this thread. I have so much to read. Thanks Clem and “one of many” again and again. At least it’s a start (a beginning?).

 

[clem456]

Hi thanks again, here, you’ve put a few points in a nutshell which have puzzled me for ages. Quote "the angels didn’t get a free home run “Yes I remember from my first cathecism (about sixty five years ago) Lucifer rebelled against God. He(Lucifer) was a perfect being. Why did he rebel, what would it profit him, “his cup was full” Would he have a bigger car or house, and his followers would only be exchanging bosses. I think the bad angels blew it. I would have settled for staying with God, it was still a fantastic deal. Quote " I think we will never know the answer to it until we can ask God. We don’t have the mind of God “Exactly, the thing is, If we don’t know the mind of God we really know nothing, everything. else is conjecture.” Until we can ask God”, do you mean when we die. Too late. I’ve been asking god for ages. Still waiting for an answer from Him. Don’t get the Job bit, must look it up.

I still like the analogy of marriage. Marriage is the fundamental sign of God’s relationship with his people, it is the primordial sacrament, instituted “in the beginning”.
Marriage signifies the commitment God has with his creatures, even with the angels who abandoned him so “quickly”. He creates and commits to them, through his outpouring of creative love. All of God’s creation is made to return God’s love. But unfortunately, free will is abused, and we choose to reject him.

Still, as we are shown in marriage, God is a faithful partner ready to forgive. God is perfect in his faithfulness and forgiveness. The obvious objection is: 'How can God be perfect in his forgiveness if he allows us to stray and risk damnation?" The answer is again free will. Without free will there is no love. Love without free will is “rape”.

 

[Amandil]

Someone said Jesus didn’t know what He was talking about. I am posting what they wrote-- That is in reply to my posting, “because Jesus wasn’t lying when he spoke about hell.”

“Another option: Jesus could have just been wrong. No lying required, and he could have been very sincere. People can be wrong and sincere at the same time.”

I read this and literally my head almost exploded.

 

[Amandil]

Colossians 1:24 is one of the best Scripture verses that contradict the idea of Universalism.

 

[oneofmany]

Hi thanks again, here, you’ve put a few points in a nutshell which have puzzled me for ages. Quote "the angels didn’t get a free home run “Yes I remember from my first cathecism (about sixty five years ago) Lucifer rebelled against God. He(Lucifer) was a perfect being. Why did he rebel, what would it profit him, “his cup was full” Would he have a bigger car or house, and his followers would only be exchanging bosses. I think the bad angels blew it. I would have settled for staying with God, it was still a fantastic deal. Quote " I think we will never know the answer to it until we can ask God. We don’t have the mind of God “Exactly, the thing is, If we don’t know the mind of God we really know nothing, everything. else is conjecture.” Until we can ask God”, do you mean when we die. Too late. I’ve been asking god for ages. Still waiting for an answer from Him. Don’t get the Job bit, must look it up.

Well thanks, but I see I am about your age and I am still learning, like you. Lucifer wanted to BE GOD that was his sin, he wanted to be top dog and take God’s place. I think we will need to wait until we die to understand the things we can’t comprehend now, but we will understand someday. In the mean time listening to apologetics and reading will help us if we have questions. We are both on the same road.

You can find many good videos on youtube. Go to the EWTN section or the Catholic Answers, Catholic section.