Why the silliness in the Mass?

[animalis]

S. Josemaria Escriva wrote (I think this was for his own reading), “Maturity. Stop acting the child; drop that affectation that only suits a silly girl. Let your outward conduct reflect the peace and order of your soul.” (The Way, 3, escrivaworks.org/book/the_way-point-3.htm)

I think the changes in the Mass after the Second Vatican Council are new fruits that need maturity. On the other hand, I cannot deny that the Pope and his bishops accept the culture tones of the Mass in Benin in West Africa. It seems that the church in that part of the world is a lot more faithful then ours.

Our culture likes the “silliness” and so when I fight within when it comes to the Mass, I have to accept that our culture has departed from the only-organ period. Still the Second Vatican Council said that Gregorian Chant should have “pride of place”. That would take musicians dedicated to the true faith and around here that is hard to find. Again, we still need to grow in the true interpetation of the Second Vatican Council.

 

[PatriceA]

God wants you to laugh, though he doesn’t mind a little kvetching here and there. Be a fool for Christ! Revel in the silliness!

Just a note. Guitars may make the Protestant church weak, but they really don’t have that power over the Catholic Church.

 

[Rich_C]

God wants you to laugh, though he doesn’t mind a little kvetching here and there. Be a fool for Christ! Revel in the silliness!

Just a note. Guitars may make the Protestant church weak, but they really don’t have that power over the Catholic Church.

thumbs-down

No one laughed at the foot of the Cross, which is where we mystically stand at every Mass. I am no “sour-faced saint” but silliness is for the other 167 hours in the week.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I am a Protestant, but I have attended mass at a couple of Catholic Churches. I have a great affinity towards all that is ancient and sacred in the church. For this reason I have found traditional Catholicism attractive. In other words, high church has always appealed to me. So I have been much dismayed to find silly guitar playing, and odd (hippie like) songs and so on as part of the mass. I guess, in my head, I always assumed this was something only weak Protestant churches had fallen prey to. My Church itself is not high church, but is very traditional and conservative. Is this something many Roman Catholic churches indulge in?

Depends on your preference. I attend both our Sat night Mass and the early more traditional style Mass…

Sat night may have a guitar playing…but I still find it reverent and beautiful

The early Mass…more traditional…no guitars…but bless their hearts…the singing is painful…too high…piano playing out of key…it’s a trial…it’s hard to concentrate sometimes… Sometimes to me that doesn’t seem very reverent either…

 

[pnewton]

No one laughed at the foot of the Cross, which is where we mystically stand at every Mass. I am no “sour-faced saint” but silliness is for the other 167 hours in the week.

There was also no one in coats and ties at the foot of the cross( ), no pews, no stained glass, etc. We stand there mystically during the Eucharist, (not the entire Mass), but there are differences.

 

[MaryLouItalia]

I’m a member of a charismatic prayer group. We have guitar, electric piano, usually there’s a franciscan friar with a tambourine, other friars that lead the prayers or the hymns, also when there’s the (our) priest he participates (sometimes he comes ‘only’ to say the mass). We have our weekly meeting in a really old church (1700 building). When there’s the mass, we sing an hymn (modern) during the Holy communion.The Mass is always wonderful, like the traditional one. We don’t dance or make disrespectful things. There’s a time to be a little bit crazy\joyous and there’s a time to be deathly serious.
I understand that the charismatic prayer and Mass is not for everyone but I love both: ‘normal’ and charismatic. Maybe we are sillies, but if a man\woman can’t stand charismatic meeting, I’m sure there are parish with ‘traditional’ behavior to attend, at least in Italy there are and they’re the majority
I believe that our goal is find Christ, and we can find Him also if there’s a guitar…

“David and the whole House of Israel danced before Yahweh with all their might, singing to the accompaniment of harps, lyres, tambourines, sistrums and cymbals”

 

[MarkThompson]

thumbs-down

No one laughed at the foot of the Cross, which is where we mystically stand at every Mass. I am no “sour-faced saint” but silliness is for the other 167 hours in the week.

Ah yes, the old argument that runs, “When you’re at Mass you’re really at Calvary, so you can’t have any more fun than you would at a public execution.” While it is clearly true that the reverence, comportment, and even the awe of the Mass should befit such an occasion, it goes much too far to say that Mass ought never to be an occasion of happiness or joy.

 

[Rejoice_Always]

thumbs-down

No one laughed at the foot of the Cross, which is where we mystically stand at every Mass. I am no “sour-faced saint” but silliness is for the other 167 hours in the week.

thumbs-up

A time to cry and a time to laugh!

Risus paschalis, my sour-faced brother in Christ and quoter of the beloved and joyful St Francis de Sales! The Easter Laughter is directed towards Satan, the prince of the world, who had thought he had destroyed Christ and thwarted God’s plan. Christ is risen, alleluia!

Our sorrow will turn to joy!

One hour of (perceived) silliness can not destroy the Catholic Church.

 

[HelenRose]

Are not stringed instruments and tambourines mentioned rather more often in the Bible than organs?

The objections raised are not so much the instruments but the quality of the music. For instance, polka dance music played on an organ is wonderful, but not necessary proper music for mass.

Having said that however, a guitarist may be the only musician willing to do the music in a small church. He or she does the best they can with what they have.

It is ever so easy to pass judgement on the efforts people bring to God.

 

[cradlecatholic5]

I LOVE GUITAR Masses!

Modern/Liberal Catholic parish = windbreaker! - LOVE IT!

 

[Exorcist]

I am a Protestant, but I have attended mass at a couple of Catholic Churches. I have a great affinity towards all that is ancient and sacred in the church. For this reason I have found traditional Catholicism attractive. In other words, high church has always appealed to me. So I have been much dismayed to find silly guitar playing, and odd (hippie like) songs and so on as part of the mass. I guess, in my head, I always assumed this was something only weak Protestant churches had fallen prey to. My Church itself is not high church, but is very traditional and conservative. Is this something many Roman Catholic churches indulge in?

“Silly?” By who’s definition?

“Hippie?” It seems like I only see the word “hippie” (and "liberal’) used the way you have as a means to demean something.

 

[PatriceA]

The objections raised are not so much the instruments but the quality of the music. For instance, polka dance music played on an organ is wonderful, but not necessary proper music for mass.

Having said that however, a guitarist may be the only musician willing to do the music in a small church. He or she does the best they can with what they have.

It is ever so easy to pass judgement on the efforts people bring to God.

I love the occasional polka mass.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Possibly some of it has to do with copyrights and contracts. There was a notion back in the 1970s and early 1980s that the “faux folk tunes” were somehow more “relevant” to modern people, particularly the young. So a lot of them got written during a very narrow time period by a very few people of modest talent, who, it appears, got together and produced a hymn book with a few smallish others thrown in.

I’ll grant that there are a few historical resurrections in them and a few old Protestant hymns. But by and large, they’re 1970s and 1980s songs written by a handful of people. The St. Louis Jesuits, Daniel Schutte and Marty Haugen come immediately to mind.

Unfortunately, we have been using those books for decades. It’s like the “earth tone” shag carpet in the living room that nobody thinks to change out notwithstanding that it’s long outdated and wasn’t all that good to start with. It’s embarrassing, but it just never gets removed and replaced.

It’s a shame. But hope springs eternal. Sooner or later, someone of greater talent will put together another.

But I’ll add that almost any instrument can work if the musician and the music are good. Unfortunately, it’s most often the case that when it comes to guitars, neither the musician or the music are particularly good.

 

[HelenRose]

I love the occasional polka mass.

It sort of depends on the quality of the music and the situation.

It also depends on the intent of the musicians. It is important for musicians to ask themselves what is their intent. Is the intent to irritate and antagonize other parishioners or is the intent to give their best to God?

In our little mission church our musicians share Sundays. We alternate with a Ordinary Latin Mass, Guitar Mass, and a regular rather serious choir. Each group does their best to please God. We work with what we have. The congregation supports all of the musicians.

P.S. Poorly done Latin Mass by musicians that don’t care is just as bad as poorly done defiant guitar masses.

 

[TrueLight]

When I came to the Catholic church I expected the gravity and solemnity to be even more apparent. In my mind I thought if the church I grew up in was like wearing a warm jacket, then the Catholic Church would be like doing a heavy velvet cloak. Something that had weight and a deep texture that perhaps the Presbyterian church was missing. One of the first parishes I attended was more like putting on a wind breaker or something made from a lightweight fabric. All the traditional elements (i.e. incense, organ, chant, etc.) had been thrown out the door and literally replaced by a folk band where the earliest piece was from the mid 70’s. The priest’s chasuble even looked like it was tie-dyed with various shades of green. I had to check twice that it was a Catholic church since it didn’t seem like what I had expected in my mind.

Love this analogy too!

 

[TrueLight]

s.

P.S. Poorly done Latin Mass by musicians that don’t care is just as bad as poorly done defiant guitar masses.

I haven’t been to one Latin mass with a musician who “don’t care”. There are different levels of talent, but I think those who hire musicians for the Latin mass do they best that they can to hire people who give it their best…

I would not agree those are just as bad as guitar masses.

 

[Lochias]

My parish has an organ, but there isn’t anyone to play it at Saturday Mass, when I cantor. The choir I’m in consists of two guitar players who do the very best that they can (and they do very well indeed), the mother superior of the local Franciscan convent, another nun from that convent who is 99 years old, a mother of one of the guitar players, and my mom.

The congregation repeatedly says that they are deeply appreciative of our efforts, and they know just how little we have to work with. We are proud to do the very best that we can for God, and anyone who has the audacity and gall to call our efforts “silly” and “hippie-ish” is more than welcome to either come and volunteer to play the organ for us, which we’d very much prefer, or to kindly keep to themselves concerning their opinions about things they understand very, very little about.

Not every church is dripping with the money needed to hire musicians, and buy more music and the like. I’m glad some churches and church-goers feel high-and-mighty enough to mock the efforts of those who are doing the best that they can do.

 

[TrueLight]

My parish has an organ, but there isn’t anyone to play it at Saturday Mass, when I cantor. The choir I’m in consists of two guitar players who do the very best that they can (and they do very well indeed), the mother superior of the local Franciscan convent, another nun from that convent who is 99 years old, a mother of one of the guitar players, and my mom.

The congregation repeatedly says that they are deeply appreciative of our efforts, and they know just how little we have to work with. We are proud to do the very best that we can for God, and anyone who has the audacity and gall to call our efforts “silly” and “hippie-ish” is more than welcome to either come and volunteer to play the organ for us, which we’d very much prefer, or to kindly keep to themselves concerning their opinions about things they understand very, very little about.

Not every church is dripping with the money needed to hire musicians, and buy more music and the like. I’m glad some churches and church-goers feel high-and-mighty enough to mock the efforts of those who are doing the best that they can do.

Well, you’ve certainly shamed us. I say this seriously.

I do think there is a difference between a parish like yours who would like to have organ music, but doesn’t have someone to play it so they use whatever instruments they have and a parish who chooses to have guitar masses just because it seems “hip”.

 

[Lochias]

Well, you’ve certainly shamed us. I say this seriously.

I do think there is a difference between a parish like yours who would like to have organ music, but doesn’t have someone to play it so they use whatever instruments they have and a parish who chooses to have guitar masses just because it seems “hip”.

I will say that the guitar, when played correctly for Mass, can be a haunting and reverent instrument as well. Not everything played with a guitar need be “hip”, and some of my favorite Mass music, deep and solemn and moving, has been with the guitar.

 

[TimothyH]

This thread has fallen victim to a firebombing presbyterian who has no interest in traditional worship but revels in causing division between Catholics.

-Tim-