Why the silliness in the Mass?

[Presbyterian20]

I am a Protestant, but I have attended mass at a couple of Catholic Churches. I have a great affinity towards all that is ancient and sacred in the church. For this reason I have found traditional Catholicism attractive. In other words, high church has always appealed to me. So I have been much dismayed to find silly guitar playing, and odd (hippie like) songs and so on as part of the mass. I guess, in my head, I always assumed this was something only weak Protestant churches had fallen prey to. My Church itself is not high church, but is very traditional and conservative. Is this something many Roman Catholic churches indulge in?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I am a Protestant, but I have attended mass at a couple of Catholic Churches. I have a great affinity towards all that is ancient and sacred in the church. For this reason I have found traditional Catholicism attractive. In other words, high church has always appealed to me. So I have been much dismayed to find silly guitar playing, and odd (hippie like) songs and so on as part of the mass. I guess, in my head, I always assumed this was something only weak Protestant churches had fallen prey to. My Church itself is not high church, but is very traditional and conservative. Is this something many Roman Catholic churches indulge in?

Not that I’m aware of. Most Catholic Churches are fairly traditional in their approach as far as I’m aware. And I’m a former Presbyterian myself.

 

[Presbyterian20]

Not that I’m aware of. Most Catholic Churches are fairly traditional in their approach as far as I’m aware. And I’m a former Presbyterian myself.

Good to hear. I have only experienced this once and it was quite odd and unexpected.

 

[Hokomai]

Are not stringed instruments and tambourines mentioned rather more often in the Bible than organs?

 

[Presbyterian20]

Are not stringed instruments and tambourines mentioned rather more often in the Bible than organs?

My question is out of curiosity not to get into some ill informed dog fight over instruments.

 

[paperwight66]

My question is out of curiosity not to get into some ill informed dog fight over instruments.

Hokomai’s point seemed pretty straight-forward to me, not ill-informed at all.

 

[Phemie]

I am a Protestant, but I have attended mass at a couple of Catholic Churches. I have a great affinity towards all that is ancient and sacred in the church. For this reason I have found traditional Catholicism attractive. In other words, high church has always appealed to me. So I have been much dismayed to find silly guitar playing, and odd (hippie like) songs and so on as part of the mass. I guess, in my head, I always assumed this was something only weak Protestant churches had fallen prey to. My Church itself is not high church, but is very traditional and conservative. Is this something many Roman Catholic churches indulge in?

It depends on where you live. In my area, parishes are small and guitars are pretty much the norm, along with the type of music you describe. They have no one who can play the organ if they even own one. Larger parishes in larger centers are more likely to have an organist and more traditional music.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Presbyterians, in my expereince, put a high premium on music. Many choirs have paid soloists. Every church has an organ or an extremely nice piano and a paid musician to play it.

The Catholic church loves music, but parishes usually will not pay for a musician ahead of positions like the head of religious education. In that case, the music during Mass will be lead by volunteers (who may be very talented, or not!) and the hymns or song choices will be those they know and can play.

The type of music and level of skill will vary, but the Catholic church has the fullness of Truth. I encourage you to continue visiting and investigating.

 

[Usige]

It really depends on the parish.

I was raised in a more traditional Presbyterian church and while we had a small congregation we had a decent choir and sang traditional hymns with 4 part harmonies. I spent 3 years in the choir while in high school. There was a certain gravity and solemness to worship there. I guess that’s not surprising since it was definitely a Calvinist church

When I came to the Catholic church I expected the gravity and solemnity to be even more apparent. In my mind I thought if the church I grew up in was like wearing a warm jacket, then the Catholic Church would be like doing a heavy velvet cloak. Something that had weight and a deep texture that perhaps the Presbyterian church was missing. One of the first parishes I attended was more like putting on a wind breaker or something made from a lightweight fabric. All the traditional elements (i.e. incense, organ, chant, etc.) had been thrown out the door and literally replaced by a folk band where the earliest piece was from the mid 70’s. The priest’s chasuble even looked like it was tie-dyed with various shades of green. I had to check twice that it was a Catholic church since it didn’t seem like what I had expected in my mind.

So long and short? Each parish is different. Some hold traditional worship as much more important than others. It is one of the beauties of the Catholic Church; when I feel the charismatic rock Mass offered at my local parish will be a distraction I can always go to a High Mass or missa cantata at a nearby FSSP parish.

While I might have a preference for how the mass is celebrated even the silliest mass still has Christ present. I often amuse myself thinking of Christ in the tabernacle shaking his head thinking “these people are nuts, but at least they came to be with me.” Then I offer up my suffering as the latest Marty Haugen song assaults my ears.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It really depends on the parish.

I was raised in a more traditional Presbyterian church and while we had a small congregation we had a decent choir and sang traditional hymns with 4 part harmonies. I spent 3 years in the choir while in high school. There was a certain gravity and solemness to worship there. I guess that’s not surprising since it was definitely a Calvinist church

When I came to the Catholic church I expected the gravity and solemnity to be even more apparent. In my mind I thought if the church I grew up in was like wearing a warm jacket, then the Catholic Church would be like doing a heavy velvet cloak. Something that had weight and a deep texture that perhaps the Presbyterian church was missing. One of the first parishes I attended was more like putting on a wind breaker or something made from a lightweight fabric. All the traditional elements (i.e. incense, organ, chant, etc.) had been thrown out the door and literally replaced by a folk band where the earliest piece was from the mid 70’s. The priest’s chasuble even looked like it was tie-dyed with various shades of green. I had to check twice that it was a Catholic church since it didn’t seem like what I had expected in my mind.

So long and short? Each parish is different. Some hold traditional worship as much more important than others. It is one of the beauties of the Catholic Church; when I feel the charismatic rock Mass offered at my local parish will be a distraction I can always go to a High Mass or missa cantata at a nearby FSSP parish.

While I might have a preference for how the mass is celebrated even the silliest mass still has Christ present. I often amuse myself thinking of Christ in the tabernacle shaking his head thinking “these people are nuts, but at least they came to be with me.” Then I offer up my suffering as the latest Marty Haugen song assaults my ears.

This. I go to a very non-traditional parish sometimes, to a more traditional/orthodox one at other times. I much prefer the more traditional one, but my husband likes the less orthodox (not surprising). In fact, the very best Mass for me is the daily Mass at the orthodox parish. There is NO music (which I find distracting and superfluous most of the time, if not annoying) and the focus is on the elements of the Mass itself. I frequently wish we could substitute 2 weekday Masses for the Sunday Mass.

I love your analogy of the heavy velvet cloak! Protestant = warm fuzzy jacket (Baptists maybe even a mink coat? LOL); Traditional Catholic parish = heavy velvet cloak (lined in satin); Modern/Liberal Catholic parish = windbreaker! That’s just great.

We more traditional Catholics love our “bells and smells!” And more traditional music.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I am a convert to the faith and I feel exactly the same way. Catholic liturgy and culture, for the most part, and at least in the USA, emphatically fails to live up to the way it is portrayed and the way people commonly perceive it, and I mean that in a negative way. It only makes sense that if the One True Faith really is the One True Faith, then its outward appearances and actions–liturgy and architecture and whatnot–should, insofar as possible, live up to the absolute highest standards. When you have rich suburban parishes building truly horrid spaceship churches and have to bend over backwards to justify it, there is a problem. Beauty never has to be justified. Of course that is just one scenario, but you get my point.

However, thankfully, our obsessive bout of philistinism seems to be dying rapidly and I can’t wait for the day that all this is just a scary footnote in some history book. I know there are still guitars and coffee table Masses, but these are not exactly being “pushed” anymore.

No one expects every parish to be singing Palestrina every Sunday and to build Baroque churches. What should be expected is the very best within the means a parish has. Poor parishes do not have to resort to geetar Masses.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am a convert to the faith and I feel exactly the same way. Catholic liturgy and culture, for the most part, and at least in the USA, emphatically fails to live up to the way it is portrayed and the way people commonly perceive it, and I mean that in a negative way. It only makes sense that if the One True Faith really is the One True Faith, then its outward appearances and actions–liturgy and architecture and whatnot–should, insofar as possible, live up to the absolute highest standards. When you have rich suburban parishes building truly horrid spaceship churches and have to bend over backwards to justify it, there is a problem. Beauty never has to be justified. Of course that is just one scenario, but you get my point.

However, thankfully, our obsessive bout of philistinism seems to be dying rapidly and I can’t wait for the day that all this is just a scary footnote in some history book. I know there are still guitars and coffee table Masses, but these are not exactly being “pushed” anymore.

No one expects every parish to be singing Palestrina every Sunday and to build Baroque churches. What should be expected is the very best within the means a parish has. Poor parishes do not have to resort to geetar Masses.

I have an intuition that Pope Benedict is going to be remembered as the Pope who brought the Mass back. May God be with him.

 

[Thomas8]

I like the guitar playing in church. Allthough i’m not catholic- i don’t see why catholics wouldn’t.

 

[Stylites]

I am a Protestant, but I have attended mass at a couple of Catholic Churches. I have a great affinity towards all that is ancient and sacred in the church. For this reason I have found traditional Catholicism attractive. In other words, high church has always appealed to me. So I have been much dismayed to find silly guitar playing, and odd (hippie like) songs and so on as part of the mass. I guess, in my head, I always assumed this was something only weak Protestant churches had fallen prey to. My Church itself is not high church, but is very traditional and conservative. Is this something many Roman Catholic churches indulge in?

An old building and patterns of worship might be ‘ancient’ by human standards and ‘attractive’ and ‘appealing’ and somehow ‘sacred’ to the senses, but even the most ‘hippyest’ and ‘silliest’ of aural guitars echo off the truly sacred and timelsss One, Whose attractiveness dims and stunts any merely sensory attraction.

 

[TimothyH]

I am a Protestant, but I have attended mass at a couple of Catholic Churches. I have a great affinity towards all that is ancient and sacred in the church. For this reason I have found traditional Catholicism attractive. In other words, high church has always appealed to me. So I have been much dismayed to find silly guitar playing, and odd (hippie like) songs and so on as part of the mass. I guess, in my head, I always assumed this was something only weak Protestant churches had fallen prey to. My Church itself is not high church, but is very traditional and conservative. Is this something many Roman Catholic churches indulge in?

This post makes me livid. I’m ready to jump out of my seat.

If you had an affinity for all things ancient and sacred, then you would not belong to a Church which started in the 1600’s, one which denies the perpetual virginity and advocacy of Our Lady, denies the authority of the Holy Father, and says that the doctrine of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is an abomination to God.

Before you start calling the Catholic Church and its members weak, silly and hippie-like, perhaps you ought to consider that the Catholic Church has stood for two thousand years, through persecution, through the rise and fall of empires, has spread to every nation and part of the world, and has brought you the very Bible which is the basis for your entire belief system.

Your dismay at something as trivial as choice of music in the face of your own Church’s rejection of the authority given to the Chair of Peter by Jesus Christ himself seems a bit out of place to me, and quite frankly, none of your business.

I would urge the Catholics here not to fall prey to weak attempts by non Catholics to drive wedges and create divisions among Catholics.

-Tim-

 

[lssanjose]

This. I go to a very non-traditional parish sometimes, to a more traditional/orthodox one at other times. I much prefer the more traditional one, but my husband likes the less orthodox (not surprising). In fact, the very best Mass for me is the daily Mass at the orthodox parish. There is NO music (which I find distracting and superfluous most of the time, if not annoying) and the focus is on the elements of the Mass itself. I frequently wish we could substitute 2 weekday Masses for the Sunday Mass.

I love your analogy of the heavy velvet cloak! Protestant = warm fuzzy jacket (Baptists maybe even a mink coat? LOL); Traditional Catholic parish = heavy velvet cloak (lined in satin); Modern/Liberal Catholic parish = windbreaker! That’s just great.

We more traditional Catholics love our “bells and smells!” And more traditional music.

Bells, and smells. I like this . I’ll echo the prior sentiments, in that, it comes down to the individual parishes. The Roman church I’ve been going to has both a pianist, and a guitar player leading hymns during Saturday Vigil Mass. The guitar player-lead singing of hymns did give off that hippie like vibe. But, the pianist had mix of traditional vibes, with a twist of semi-jazz (not sure if this is a good description). I’ve been to three divine liturgies at a Byzantine Ruthenian Church. Because of the small size of that congregation, the cantor is embedded within. Because there aren’t instruments (as one priest’s wife, and I agreed on), parishioners wishing to hide themselves, can’t. One feels compelled to participate in the singing/chanting of the divine liturgy

 

[Rejoice_Always]

God wants you to laugh, though he doesn’t mind a little kvetching here and there. Be a fool for Christ! Revel in the silliness!

Just a note. Guitars may make the Protestant church weak, but they really don’t have that power over the Catholic Church.

 

[lssanjose]

God wants you to laugh, though he doesn’t mind a little kvetching here and there. Be a fool for Christ! Revel in the silliness!

Just a note. Guitars may make the Protestant church weak, but they really don’t have that power over the Catholic Church.

+1.

 

[pnewton]

My question is out of curiosity not to get into some ill informed dog fight over instruments.

Perhaps “silliness” was not the best way to start the thread. It invites controversy.

Church music is swinging back somewhat to the more traditional, but all decisions as to what music is best for a particular parish is made at the local parish, within limits set by the bishop.

 

[applesofgold]

Yes, we have a lot of “silliness”, “cuteness”, “cuddliness” and “hordes of people buzzing about like bees on the sanctuary”, creeping into the Holy Mass here also. It is as the Holy Father said, in his message to the recent Eucharistic Congress in Dublin, “active participation being confused with external activity”. The Holy Mass isn’t about putting on a show to entertain, still less about finding roles for the maximum number of people possible in the production. “Active participation” is more about one’s internal disposition, one’s faith and a yearning for closer contact with the divine.
I often wonder about the supper at the Inn at Emmaus. Only two disciples experienced that moment and recognised Jesus in the breaking of bread. But through these two witnesses, the Good news of that moment was brought to many.
I think of some efforts at liturgy today as like putting on a cabaret and all the entertainment that goes with it over dinner at the Inn in Emmaus. Yes, the Inn would be packed to the rafters, ……BUT…. wowed by the music and the dancers, would anyone have even noticed, let alone recognise Him, as He broke the bread?