Why the surveillance memo matters

[Theo520]

I’m not evading anything. If judicial review of warrant applications was nothing more than a rubber stamp, no court would ever have turned down a warrant application. Is that the case?

I’d say the 99.9% approval rate rounds to 100% but why must it be that high before you call it a rubber stamp?

 

[Inisfallen]

I’d say the 99.9% approval rate rounds to 100% but why must it be that high before you call it a rubber stamp?

The bar for a warrant has always been quite low. I haven’t read the law governing FISA warrant applications, nor do I know the approval rate, so I can’t really venture an opinion on this. I’d need to know how that approval rate stacked up against approval rates for warrants in other courts.

 

[JonNC]

Carter Page is on video praising Putin and criticizing U.S. sanctions against Russia. I would hope the FBI would investigate a “campaign advisor” like that.

Why? Is he not permitted a political view? Did he do something against the law? If he did, why has he not been charged after, what, four FISA warrants? They got nothing?
There are plenty of Americans who actually praise Hamas. I don’t think a FISA warrant is warranted for that.

 

[Caldera]

FBI is refusing to expedite the release of documents about secret meetings that took place between former FBI Director James Comey and former President Obama. Judicial Watch Director of Investigations Chris Farrell says the matter is of public interest.

 

[Caldera]

Rep. Matt Gaetz says special counsel is needed to hold the FBI and DOJ accountable regarding potential FISA abuses

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

Carter Page is on video praising Putin and criticizing U.S. sanctions against Russia. I would hope the FBI would investigate a “campaign advisor” like that.

Why? Is he not permitted a political view? Did he do something against the law? If he did, why has he not been charged after, what, four FISA warrants? They got nothing?
There are plenty of Americans who actually praise Hamas. I don’t think a FISA warrant is warranted for that.

Maybe you should go work for the Justice Department.

 

[JonNC]

Maybe you should go work for the Justice Department.

I’m not sure what that means. Do you think only people in the DOJ believe in free speech?

 

[MonteRCMS]

Clapper … very strange person.

Here’s The Real Reason Clapper Said The Muslim Brotherhood Is Secular
John Ellis
Feb. 10, 2011, 4:20 PM

Is General Clapper stupid? No. Is he naive? No.

John Podhoretz, the New York Post columnist and author, is on the warpath over remarks made today by National Intelligence Director James Clapper:

This is one of the most reckless and irresponsible statements ever made publicly by an American official at a critical and delicate moment. If one of the key figures in the making of the administration’s foreign policy is already making excuses for the Muslim Brotherhood, the president needs to signal immediately that the United States does not view this evil and destructive force with rose-colored glasses. Hard to say how Obama can do that in a way that will be meaningful and still allow Clapper to remain in his office.

Okay. So what did General Clapper say? The nut paragraph, courtesy of Politico:

“The term ‘Muslim Brotherhood’…is an umbrella term for a variety of movements, in the case of Egypt, a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried Al Qaeda as a perversion of Islam,” Clapper said. “They have pursued social ends, a betterment of the political order in Egypt, et cetera…In other countries, there are also chapters or franchises of the Muslim Brotherhood, but there is no overarching agenda, particularly in pursuit of violence, at least internationally.” (our bold)

Is General Clapper stupid? No. Is he naive? No. Does he really believe that the Muslim Brotherhood is the United Way of Egypt? No. All those things being true, why would a senior intelligence figure of the United States government say what Gen. Clapper just said to Congress?

It appears tactical. Egypt is at a very sensitive stage of “transition.” Having everybody included in the negotiations regarding how that transition plays out is critical to US interests. Chaos is not a viable option. Clapper giving the Muslim Brotherhood a big bear hug makes it more difficult for them to disrupt the transition process.

Either that or General Clapper is a fool. Either way, the right-wing rush is on to have him sacked. The public flogging begins tonight.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If, later, there is a prosecution based on evidence obtained under that warrant, the defendant may contest it then (with the help of a lawyer who will advocate for him) and seek to have that evidence thrown out.

So there is still an opportunity for advocacy. Just not at that stage of the process, and not on the part of the judge.

But when the objective is political, what is the later opportunity for advocacy other than catching the offending party doing it and making it public that it did?

And if the offender is successful in the political contest, what is the chance of it ever being made known?

And if the information gained is used to ensnare someone not a party to the conversation, what challenge does that person have to the wrongful act? What’s his remedy?

I don’t think comparing this to ordinary search warrants in criminal cases is apt at all.

 

[Cathoholic]

Thank you MonteRCMS for posting that and tagging me with it.

 

[Luke6_37]

Why the surveillance memo matters World News

Why? Is he not permitted a political view? Did he do something against the law? If he did, why has he not been charged after, what, four FISA warrants? They got nothing? There are plenty of Americans who actually praise Hamas. I don’t think a FISA warrant is warranted for that. Maybe you should go work for the Justice Department.

Luke6_37:

Maybe you should go work for the Justice Department.

I’m not sure what that means. Do you think only people in the DOJ believe in free speech?

It’s just that you seem to think you have all the information you need to pass judgement on a highly secretive process. If that’s the case, then maybe you should go work for the JD so you can see what really goes into a FISA warrant.

 

[JonNC]

It’s just that you seem to think you have all the information you need to pass judgement on a highly secretive process. If that’s the case, then maybe you should go work for the JD so you can see what really goes into a FISA warrant.

If they have information to arrest him, and haven’t, what do you think?
Not a FISA warrant - 4 of them! And he is still free.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

It’s just that you seem to think you have all the information you need to pass judgement on a highly secretive process. If that’s the case, then maybe you should go work for the JD so you can see what really goes into a FISA warrant.

If they have information to arrest him, and haven’t, what do you think?
Not a FISA warrant - 4 of them! And he is still free.

Surveillance is about gathering information. For years, Carter Page was making the rounds with the Russians. He may have been leading the FBI to discover all sorts of interesting things. Why would they want to ruin that by arresting him?

It was Trump who raised the stakes by later naming him his foreign policy advisor.

 

[JonNC]

Surveillance is about gathering information. For years, Carter Page was making the rounds with the Russians.

Yes or no: is that illegal? Are we at war, declared, with Russia?

He may have been leading the FBI to discover all sorts of interesting things. Why would they want to ruin that by arresting him?

What proof do you have that he has led the FBI to anything? Four FISA warrants, the basis of which is the Steele Clinton Russia Dossier. McCabe said so.

It was Trump who raised the stakes by later naming him his foreign policy advisor.

What stakes? If there were “stakes”, he would be arrested. He knows they are spying on him. If he was doing something illegal, he would have stopped long ago.

 

[JonNC]

Surveillance is about gathering information. For years, Carter Page was making the rounds with the Russians. He may have been leading the FBI to discover all sorts of interesting things. Why would they want to ruin that by arresting him?

Let’s remember one thing: The Steele Clinton Russian Dossier is evidence that the Clinton campaign colluded with Russia, and a former agent of another country in order to alter the election.

 

[MonteRCMS]

Trump didn’t even know who Carter Page is/was.

[Does Carter Page even speak Russian??]

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

Surveillance is about gathering information. For years, Carter Page was making the rounds with the Russians. He may have been leading the FBI to discover all sorts of interesting things. Why would they want to ruin that by arresting him?

Let’s remember one thing: The Steele Clinton Russian Dossier is evidence that the Clinton campaign colluded with Russia, and a former agent of another country in order to alter the election.

I do not recall the Clinton campaign making the dossier public or using the information in it in any way to alter the outcome of the election. However, if they violated campaign laws, they should be held accountable.

Let’s remember one thing: Whatever Mueller turns up with respect to the Trump campaign and Russia isn’t going to depend upon the dossier. He’s following the money, and where that leads remains to be seen.

 

[JonNC]

I do not recall the Clinton campaign making the dossier public or using the information in it in any way to alter the outcome of the election. However, if they violated campaign laws, they should be held accountable.

The Clinton campaign and DNC paid for. Authorized it. The had a foreign government agent collude with the Russians.
Collusion is not against the law. Not for Clinton or Trump.
The bigger concern is the Obama FBI using opposition research as if it was intelligence to obtain a FISA warrant.

Let’s remember one thing: Whatever Mueller turns up with respect to the Trump campaign and Russia isn’t going to depend upon the dossier.

Of course not. It is full of false information.

He’s following the money, and where that leads remains to be seen.

Clinton money? Pay for play money with the Clinton foundation?

 

[Luke6_37]

Clinton money? Pay for play money with the Clinton foundation?

Given that Trump is occupying the oval office and cannot bring himself to enforce the sanctions against Russia that were passed by a veto proof majority in Congress, I think the priority is to find out what his financial relationship to Russia might be.

I find it humorous that Trump supporters are still obsessed with Clinton. Give it up already.

 

[JonNC]

Given that Trump is occupying the oval office and cannot bring himself to enforce the sanctions against Russia that were passed by a veto proof majority in Congress, I think the priority is to find out what his financial relationship to Russia might be.

Every year he gets audited. If there was financial improprieties, the government knows about them already, and has for years.
Please don’t tell me sbout government not enforcing things.
There is a mayor in Oakland intentionally obstructing federal immigration law. That’s collusion with foreign nationals.
Chicago is issuing an ID to foreign nationals that they will be able to use to register to vote. That is overt collusion with foreign nationals to impact elections.

I find it humorous that Trump supporters are still obsessed with Clinton. Give it up already.

I think it hilarious that done Trump haters are still deluded into thinking Trump stole the election with the help of Putin.